GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[Hellmonkey]

2D fighters are rarely dominated by overpowered mixups. It always comes down to control. The other characters just don't have the same tools. Jam does MASSIVE damage if she can hit you, but ask any Jam player and they'll tell you that landing that hit is more difficult than you think it is when you're fighting someone good.

This applies to all of the "high tier" characters, don't fool yourself. For all the extra trouble Jam has due to not having projectiles/etc to help her out (neither does Slayer), she gets either better normals, better defense, or better movement in return.

I also disagree with your point about mixups not meaning much at high level play because the opponents know them well enough to deal with them. On the contrary, I believe every character has enough potential on offense to rape once they're ahead, whether it be directly mixing them up or shutting down their options to escape.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

*sigh* Yes, but would you say it applies to them to the same degree that it applies to the other characters? I picked Jam as an example because one place that she definitely seems to lack in is the ability to control space, at least as far as how much range she has. She makes up for it with her speed and safety, but still not quite good enough to keep up with characters like Testament or Eddie, who just completely dominate sections of real estate on the screen.

[Hellmonkey]

Again, I'll have to disagree. Jam's style of play is definitely different- she doesn't sit there and control space and punish you for getting near it, instead she can rush down hard and force good trades for her, and keep the pressure on without needing eddie bar or tension. She also has better options on defense than either Eddie or Testament: parry, an uppercut, a good backdash, a thin/short hitbox, and faster normals. I don't believe you can accurately say one style is inherently stronger than the other, it depends completely on the player's specific matchup knowledge and how well they can execute.

[Harem]

and if you want to talk about mixups, guess what- johnny doesn't have any

what

[excelence]

he didn't have any

[Discotheque]

Again, I'll have to disagree. Jam's style of play is definitely different- she doesn't sit there and control space and punish you for getting near it, instead she can rush down hard and force good trades for her, and keep the pressure on without needing eddie bar or tension. She also has better options on defense than either Eddie or Testament: parry, an uppercut, a good backdash, a thin/short hitbox, and faster normals. I don't believe you can accurately say one style is inherently stronger than the other, it depends completely on the player's specific matchup knowledge and how well they can execute.

She really isn't a rush-down character unless you're mike and have like a instant-puma like reaction to counterhit all of the opponents options. And her pressure game is only good if you have 25% tension to scare your opponent to thinking you're gonna throw out a FB puff.

Her ground pokes are quick, but none of em really leads into her staple combos unless its a 2S/6HS (and 6HS is slow as fuck) counterhit. Her jump-in options are poor with reliance pretty much only on a j.hs mekuri or mix-up with gekirin, j.2S, both of which are easy to see and punishable on block.

Her defensive game isn't that great when you consider how her uppercut is really mediocre. Parry is really situational and it can't block lows. Her backdash is great, but against certain characters (like Slayer) it can be punished.

Jam's playing style definitely changed over the years. Reminds me of how there were lots of really aggresive Sol players like Isa that would rush-down and pressure till the opponent made a mistake to rape; now people just realized that "hit and run" is much, much safer playstyle for characters like Jam. Except with Jam, if you get that hit, it better do over 60% damage or you'll probably lose.

EDIT: Johnny has like 1 reliable mix-up option; tigerknee ensenga.

[faultydefense]

She really isn't a rush-down character unless you're mike and have like a instant-puma like reaction to counterhit all of the opponents options. And her pressure game is only good if you have 25% tension to scare your opponent to thinking you're gonna throw out a FB puff.

Her ground pokes are quick, but none of em really leads into her staple combos unless its a 2S/6HS (and 6HS is slow as fuck) counterhit. Her jump-in options are poor with reliance pretty much only on a j.hs mekuri or mix-up with gekirin, j.2S, both of which are easy to see and punishable on block.

Her defensive game isn't that great when you consider how her uppercut is really mediocre. Parry is really situational and it can't block lows. Her backdash is great, but against certain characters (like Slayer) it can be punished.

Jam's playing style definitely changed over the years. Reminds me of how there were lots of really aggresive Sol players like Isa that would rush-down and pressure till the opponent made a mistake to rape; now people just realized that "hit and run" is much, much safer playstyle for characters like Jam. Except with Jam, if you get that hit, it better do over 60% damage or you'll probably lose.

EDIT: Johnny has like 1 reliable mix-up option; tigerknee ensenga.

You're kidding right? Jam not a rush down? She has no pressure without 25% bar? her pokes don't lead to combo? No jump ins?

Who told you this crap.

[Hellmonkey]

also,

Her defensive game isn't that great when you consider how her uppercut is really mediocre. Parry is really situational and it can't block lows. Her backdash is great, but against certain characters (like Slayer) it can be punished.

You're missing the point: she HAS an uppercut, and it can combo into huge damage with a charge. Parry is situational -> it shuts down options for the opponent, of course it's not the ultimate answer to everything, but to say it doesn't help her is silly. Her backdash is a hell of a lot better than most; of course every backdash can be punished but compared to Eddie's, for instance, it's roughly 8,000 times better. Nobody is arguing that she has godlike defense that nobody can ever break, but it is easy to see that it's at least a lot stronger than the characters she was being compared to.

[DJ Xero]

She really isn't a rush-down character unless you're mike and have like a instant-puma like reaction to counterhit all of the opponents options. And her pressure game is only good if you have 25% tension to scare your opponent to thinking you're gonna throw out a FB puff.

Her ground pokes are quick, but none of em really leads into her staple combos unless its a 2S/6HS (and 6HS is slow as fuck) counterhit. Her jump-in options are poor with reliance pretty much only on a j.hs mekuri or mix-up with gekirin, j.2S, both of which are easy to see and punishable on block.

Her defensive game isn't that great when you consider how her uppercut is really mediocre. Parry is really situational and it can't block lows. Her backdash is great, but against certain characters (like Slayer) it can be punished.

Jam's playing style definitely changed over the years. Reminds me of how there were lots of really aggresive Sol players like Isa that would rush-down and pressure till the opponent made a mistake to rape; now people just realized that "hit and run" is much, much safer playstyle for characters like Jam. Except with Jam, if you get that hit, it better do over 60% damage or you'll probably lose.

This tells me you have never played as/against Jam.

Almost everything leads into at least 25% health. The ones you're talking about lead into 60+% damage, and on top of that, 6H is a great tool, if only for the gatling for H > 6H.

I mean, the character is in the top 5 easy, just because of Damage potential, ability to combo, and ability to get in on opponents.

[DoomieJ]

Again, I'll have to disagree. Jam's style of play is definitely different- she doesn't sit there and control space and punish you for getting near it, instead she can rush down hard and force good trades for her, and keep the pressure on without needing eddie bar or tension. She also has better options on defense than either Eddie or Testament: parry, an uppercut, a good backdash, a thin/short hitbox, and faster normals. I don't believe you can accurately say one style is inherently stronger than the other, it depends completely on the player's specific matchup knowledge and how well they can execute.

Truth!

[Hintalove]

5h > 6h is actually pretty dangerous these days. Don't even have to sb it to take away jam's followup options, and basically a free shot for any competent pochompkin(BUSTER). If you go around waving those guard strings in peoples' faces, expect the dps to come a flyin' right back.

[Chomite]

Isn't Jam's 6HS throw-invincible? I always thought that it was.

[CrimsonDisaster]

Isn't Jam's 6HS throw-invincible? I always thought that it was.

It's throw invincible on startup and for a pretty hefty chunk of the move, but if they SB/IB it they get opportunities to escape/punish.

[jihnsius]

Wasn't there a character matchup rankings chart somewhere around here? I can't find it for the life of me.

[qwerty]

Wasn't there a character matchup rankings chart somewhere around here? I can't find it for the life of me.

you mean this?

it's pretty old, so i wouldn't take anything it states as fact.

[jihnsius]

you mean this?

it's pretty old, so i wouldn't take anything it states as fact.

Awesome, thank you.

[stunedge]

Latest tier list from Ogawa S ED A+ TE JA SL A MI MA BA A- PO AB CH SO VE RO OS B+ AX AN DI FA KY IN ZA BR B- JO

[Silmerion]

Latest tier list from Ogawa

S ED

A+ TE JA SL

A MI MA BA

A- PO AB CH SO VE RO OS

B+ AX AN DI FA KY IN ZA BR

B- JO

Why is Chipp so (relatively) high? And is this list official or just Ogawa's opinion (that that it wouldn't carry weight if it was)?

[stunedge]

ogawa's opinion which i think summarizes current situation in Japan pretty well (including opinions of other good players)

[Donutholes]

Hooray! Johnny a tier all to himself. QQ

[4r5]

D: Chipp, Johnny, I-No, Buri

B- JO

Johnny moved up two tiers! O.O

[FATHER VEGEKEN]

Pat you influenced that(your stilll my hero) -Message Approved by THE SERAPHIC 1, 2nd by ~ZeroGen~

[Quomple]

I used to think a character's risk rating in story mode was also their tier rank.

[JinSaotome]

Lol, I wouldn't mind that, Anji would be A tier again

[Silmerion]

It looks to me as though Ogawa's list is based less on advantages/disadvantages and more on relative tournament placement. Which doesn't explain why Chipp is in the same tier as Potemkin.