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kenja0

[CS1] Lambda vs. Tager

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It looks like Tager has some new tricks up his metallic sleeves. However, Lambda's got a few of her own. There is no current chart for this matchup and it keeps shifting indecisively. I'd say Lambda has the advantage.

Just remember that the more aggressive the Tager, the less mistakes you can make; and the less skillful you are, the more exponentially stronger a Tager becomes. These matches will not look like the Japanese matches... but they certainly aren't impossible and become cake after experience. Especially with Lambda's upgraded tools:

Gravity Seed Invincibility

Lambda's new option and personal Tager tamer. Gravity Seeds now carry full invincibility on startup however are short ranged and extremely punishable on block. Every time one is used, she requires 16 seconds of charge to gain it back.

This is your get out of free jail card against Tager. It stops EVERYTHING including Tager's 720 and other DD (or else it will clash), Sledgehammer, and that pesky 5D during magnetism. Anything that Gravity Seed will not stop will certainly clash with him, so make sure to attack/jump afterward to avoid 360. Be weary of baits (which happen mostly during Gadget Finger). And remember that you can cancel all of your normals into Gravity Seed.

And without further ado, Let's Play Tager Tag!

Keep away:

Tager is a grapple character while we zone. It is imperative to keep Tager away. You're going to be running away from him lots.

If you're far away, throw out several projectiles to keep him at bay. Don't be predicted because he might Sledgehammer his way through your projectiles. Instead, create as many opportunities as you can to bait him into an opening via 214D~C. If he is airborne, lead him towards the ground with 6D/2D moves and lay a 236D; 214D also becomes an option when he is in the air.

Remember, you can use 6D and 2D as jump cancel tools to aid a trusty escape.

Magnetism:

Magnetism can be problematic- it throws off spacing and it drastically decreases retreat options. Sadly, Magnetism is much stronger than it was in CT. If Tager is throwing out his 5D to pull you in, try to 3C or 5D/6D him. If you're close, this isn't an option. However, Gravity Seed is.

If Tager is in the air, he's probably going to j.D to pull you in. Watch his jump height as he can land a j.D feint into 360/720s.

Close Combat Offense

If Tager is blocking, make sure to lead into a jump cancel option as often as you can as to avoid leaving gaps in your offense. If you don't, you might suffer a 360 in your openings.

If you feel like your offense isn't going to work (or you want to change it up), it's best to jump cancel your move into a retreating IAD or if he's blocking low, IAD over him and cross up with j.C.

If you score a knockdown on Tager that isn't point blank close, Tager can wakeup Sledge a 214D (or if you are really unlucky, 360)- be weary of this option and bait him into a 214A. Or, don't knockdown if you know he's not going to wake up point blank range- 236B instead.

Close Combat Defense

Some of Tager's attacks have ridiculous blockstun, you're going to be wanting to IBing him all the time. If you can't, watch out for his Sledgehammer resets- poke with 5A/214A during this opening if at all possible (best after IB because it is nothing but advantage).

Be weary of blockstrings into 360s. There are some instances in which a 360 can be thrown rejected- when blockstun lasts excessively long. If this happens, any 5A/214A buffer reversals turn your throw reject into a throw reject miss.

Sledgehammer.

Sledgehammer gives Tager full invincibility against projectiles while the attack is out, if you aren't careful, he can Sledgehammer and hit you when you're trying to attack with projectile C or D moves or even after a 3C>214D (if he isn't point blank). The best way to punish Sledgehammer is to time an offense after it comes out, sweep him with 3C, or 214A. 236B works if you are good at timing.

Tick Throws and Wake Ups

If you get stunned by Tager (by Sledgehammer B for example), Tager may do a delayed 360A to grab you out of your struggle. There are some things you have to be patient, and you'll even have to take another attack. Just remember that taking some attack <1000 damage is better than taking 2700/3600 to the face into Gadget Finger.

Also, be weary of air techs during magnetism. Tager may Atomic Collider into extended combos. If you're far enough away in the air, you can possibly use j.2D/j.B to hit him out of it, but it's difficult.

Even if you would end up on the ground after a whiffed Atomic Collider wakeup, if you're magnetized, it will put you next to Tager- and he can 360/720 your next response no matter what.

Something my friend picked up and can do consistently especially after Gadget Fingers, if you're in the air and block a Tager standing 5A/5C (for not Gadget Finger), Atomic Collider. It hurts. Not so much for Lambda.

Charge

Charge will give Tager upperbody invincibility- 3C/236B/236C/236D~C will hit him out of it or anything after his charge is done. Use these at the appropriate distances to hit him coming out.

Spark Bolt

Spark Bolt magnetizes, this isn't a problem if he's far away. Zone with caution if he has a full charge since it will break all other projectiles we can throw out. 236236D will beat it, but it's best not to risk on a quick draw. It's best to bait it.

Gadget Finger

214A is relatively safe, however, watch out for baits. If you don't have the gravity charge then backdash, Gold Burst for a reversal. Watch out for 360s and Atomic Collider. If he Atomic Colliders, you can j.A him to get out of it maybe 20% of the time.

If he has 50 Heat, he may 720C which overrides everything ground related but Burst and Gravity- get in the air and attack.

There are a few instances where Gadget Finger will make 360/720 into a purple throw. And there are some instances where Tager can 360 as soon as frame 0, without a purple throw, before your buffered 214A/backdash/jump come out. Personally, I call this fucking cheap. But, it's all a mind game to him. Just be aware of all of his options.

Aerial Tager

He may j.C at the beginning to pseudo airdash towards Lambda. He may j.D, especially if Lambda is magnetized. He may j.2C if he's directly above you. Whatever you do, try to hit him as early as possible with 6D/2D- if you get blocked, cancel into 236D/214D when he hits the ground. Dash past or back if you're directly under him as anti-airs are hard to time against the stall time of j.2C.

Act Parser: Cavalier

Here's an interesting Act Parser. Upon a non-counter hit. It combos... into itself. You can do this off of a 214A counter. I do: 214A>5C[8]>6C>236C>delay 236C>delay 236C> sjc j.DD, j.2DD> jc> j.DD> j.2DD> j.214D for around 3k.

If you're stressed out about the match, this will make you feel really good and make them rage and possibly tech at the wrong time.

Summary

If Tager begins to play defensive, you win. Sure he'll block all of your moves, but if he doesn't risk it, he won't reap the benefits.

However, if he's not Japanese, then you're in for a highly stressful match.

Be tactful, make him play defensively rather than offensive and most importantly, don't be predictable.

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After Gadget Finger:

- j.B beats the shit out of Tager if he doesn't do AC fast enough.

- Backdash if he doesn't have meter.

- If he's going for 360/720, or any other standing attack, go for 214A and have your nice 3000 damage combo.

But yeah it's a guessing game, nothing much to do in that department.

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You still can zone him to hell and back. Only now you mostly use 236D and 214D to wear down his primers. Finally though. I want to talk about CS matchups more. Especially carl. :vbang:

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Wouldn't 214A/B/C be pointless against 720? Since Tager goes invincible himself?

Since you do 214A after his 720, his invincibility overlaps with yours and because you went second yours wins (you'll first be pulled a little towards him as you're already magnetized, and that only helps the combo :v:). I already did it many times.

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i still have no idea what gadget finger does. honestly. but yeah, most matches against Tager (aside from that one crazy Nu who a and b'ed himself to victory) just zone him to death.

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Counterhit 5D > 236C combos are very useful in this match. It's great for punishing predicted sledges, sometimes even at relatively close range since his hitbox is so wide. At the very least it gives Tager a real reason to respect your 5D now that 5DD 4DD doesn't work anymore. I definitely miss 6C wallbounce on counterhit, it was much easier to stuff predicted sledges with that.

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You cannot physically time a sledge hammer on reaction to seeing a D sword. It sounds like you need to work on your prediction and baiting skills. Lambda/Nu does not constantly need to have an attack out. It sounds like the Tager you play against knows you're going to attack at certain points and uses sledge and such to get around you. In other words, he's reading you like a book he's read twenty times already. In regards to super jumping over 6D, use 2D instead. Get out of habits and use everything Lambda has, not just a few moves. A large majority of Lambda players use 214DC > 66 Dash > 2DD > 6DD to position the enemy in front of them.

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You cannot physically time a sledge hammer on reaction to seeing a D sword. It sounds like you need to work on your prediction and baiting skills. Lambda/Nu does not constantly need to have an attack out. It sounds like the Tager you play against knows you're going to attack at certain points and uses sledge and such to get around you. In other words, he's reading you like a book he's read twenty times already.

In regards to super jumping over 6D, use 2D instead. Get out of habits and use everything Lambda has, not just a few moves. A large majority of Lambda players use 214DC > 66 Dash > 2DD > 6DD to position the enemy in front of them.

Understood, I guess I get a little angsty. The only thing I don't use that often IS 214D©. Everything else, I use where they should be used. He's just really good at predicting and carrying out the specific reversal (like backstepping my sweeps when they are not used in combo).

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I updated the first post to include all the strategies I know right off the top of my head and the tips people have posted. If anyone else wants to add anything, just let me know.

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This was helpful, glad Tuka talked about the options of what to do after gadget finger

And Severin, canceling 5D into 214A is pretty hilarious, I was a little worried about 5D being useless once Tager was a little past mid range, this should be lulzy. Does canceling 214A only work if you tap 5D once?

Guess while we're at it, if Tager charges up with spark meter when is the right time to attack? I wouldn't want a 236C hit to land on him while charging only to eat a 720.

Also, I've been playing possibly the best Tager on XBL/PSN (ignoring mike Z), and I'm coming to find that TK overheads and TK feints is just not worth it in the matchup, since it's low reward/high risk and usually high reward/low, mid risk for Tager.

I guess this match mainly consists of locking Tager down with 5Ds/214Ds/236D. Tager seems to be the only character this move is usueful on. It's too bad, before Nu's could laugh and troll Tagers, seems like this matchup is still in Lambda's favor but it's a battle of attrition, even if the Tager isn't amazing

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Guess while we're at it, if Tager charges up with spark meter when is the right time to attack? I wouldn't want a 236C hit to land on him while charging only to eat a 720.

Can't we use 236D to hit confirm into 236C? Or I think Lambda should be aiming for CH 5D when the Tager comes out of recovery but I don't know if you are able to hit confirm 5D into 236C.

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If Tager is charging, go low. The recovery on that move is pretty big. A lot of player run in to trouble because they will poke mid first, Tager isn't affected by hit stun while charging, so that will get you 720'd. Besides you're Lambda, you can just wait and D him, or use that Act Parser that hits low, or 3C (maybe).

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B Pulser leads to some pretty damn nice damage on counter hit, it's scary enough to make tagers not use his charge.

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All I have to say is to be wary of IB 720's if you decide to rush him down while he's blocking 236D. With that being said, I'm sure you could bait it as well.

lol, Here's another thing I'm seeing. If Tager decides to jump and you make him block 2D/6D, cancel it into 236D or 236D~C and he'll land right in range. He'll be forced to lose more primers since his only option is to block.

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My main tool in this fight is to bait sledge, with CH 5D into 236C,

214d~c, 2dd, 6dd zoning

IB out of pressure strings

And eat gadget finger resets. :(

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Gadget Finger isn't as scary as you think it is. Just get very good at timing those Gravity Seeds and you'll be set.

Tager is all about the mind games, and if you can put all your faith in the reaction time of your DP and learn when to use it, you'll take them out as easy as pie.

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I def. started using DP a lot more, it helps a lot, now I just need to be able to get more damage out of it. Once the Tagers start going defensive it is a LOT easier to deal with them.

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The DP is legit. Learn to react to stuff like 5d>236b and DP him in the gap. DPing after gadget finger is funny because it can make him a bit cautious about attacking you and thats your gateway to getting out of there or turning the tables somehow (like if he decides to block just start your own blockstring). At mid range bait sledge with 5d and if he learns to sledge it cancel into DP. If he starts charging spark bolt 5d>236c usually deals with that (either with absorption of 5d>236c hit or CH 5d>236c). As for the actual how-to on zoning in this matchup, I usually just try to zone with 214d~c/214d and 5d (as long as you're not too predictable with 5d you should be fine). 214d~c creates jumps, when he jumps 2d>236d/236d~c. You can also do stuff like 2dd>6dd>j.2dd>j.214d~c AD j.b>j.c to get in and do some close range mixups but I wouldn't recommend you do this as anything but a "once in a blue moon" sort of tactic. If he has a habit of not barrier guarding while in the air 2d>236c for the air unblockable can work but its very gimmicky and I just use it if I ever see that from my opponent. Just be patient and zone methodically, you can often get a guardcrush against a patient Tager player with spike chasers and 236d. When you hit confirm a close range hit on him its probably best to end with 236b instead of knockdown>214d since he can sledge that, though you can probably counter that with the DP.

Thats how I've learned to play this matchup I guess.

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Gadget related things.

Backdash beats everything but 6C and 720.

j.B clashes out your DP.

Everything else is kinda secondary to those two options.

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