Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

kenja0

[CS1] Lambda vs. Tager

Recommended Posts

To get out of Tager pressure just IB. Normally that's easier said than done, but in Tagers case all his C's, D's, and specials are super easy to IB. For example; a popular Tager string is, 5C>5D>Bsledge, if you IB the 5D you can poke or throw him out of the sledge. If you IB the sledge it become -2 giving you the advantage, just watch out for 360A and scrub720's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only advice against Tager is to IB and back-dash if you don't have the DP ready. Don't senselessly waste the DP, but you can occasionally use it as a zoning tool instead of as a DP.

236B is not a good idea. I don't think any Parser is a good idea against Tager, especially when he has 50 Heat. If he blocks 5DD or 4DD and you 236B, he doesn't even have to IB and he can punish. I've been jabbed out of all my Parsers by 7-frame 5A's/2A's.

I'll have to test this out later, but I think Tager could even 720 your approach, or 360A you if he doesn't have 50 Heat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Act pulsar against tager out of combo is asking to get 306a/b on reaction. it really sucks. I've been playing the same friend since CT and I really hate this match up even more.

Now, 6D on Tager when he's far away. This particular friend of mine ducks under it on reaction, leaving me in recovery and him walking towards me. He jumps, I push him away with swords, 236D~C depending on how close/far he is, but he can land sledge and I'm too far away to punish. I can hardly 214D~C and punish; he usually walks back and either A sledges or back dashes it. I've never even come close to breaking more than 4 primers at any one time... He also backdashes 5D on reaction even if it's random. Because of this I cannot effectively zone him and keep him from getting close and magnetizing me...

I'm just trying to get out of this "lurker" mode and actively ask for help on this site, as I feel that I'm not progressing in terms of this matchup. I know it's more even, but when I play him it really does feel like 9-1 Tager.

Here are a few things he does after Gadget Finger:

-5A. from here he can tick throw, it beats outs ALL air options (aside from blocking...but thaqt stilll leaves me in front of him) as it catches IAD back during the jump startup...he will also 4D on hit/block, but he doesn't gattle it, leaving him free to whiff punish any 214a/b/c attempts.

-Backdash. Jump? collider on reaction. Backdash? 2D on reaction. What I found that works is 2147D and IAD back, he doesn't have to backdash, collider, or 360 me and just stand there.

-Stand there. Now what!? He fast enough to "anti-air" with 360A using the invinvibility frames to catch them when they land. If I move anywhere on the ground in his direction, I get command grabbed. If I'm lucky, I can DP it for a CH if he did something... Ha, fat chance >_>

-Yomi collider/360/Magnetech Wheel if he has meter...He never 720s lol

Also, after messing around in training mode, I learned that Tager can sledge through 632146D, which does a solid 2.8k. Jin's wave super does 15 more damage and Tager can sledge through that... He can also sledge through all 4 of mu12's exploding steins, which do 3.9k. Back in CT, 632146D at worst, traded with sledge, but at least you got a combo off it... Unlike CT, CS Tager can apparently sledge an infinite amount of damage.

Most of the stuff he does is on reaction.

PS: I noted that magnetism lasts MORE than its 4-5 seconds if he is doing that silly whiff collider 2B pickup/fishing for a reset. Yes, I can neutral tech and do something like j.B , but as I saidm it really does seem he does everything on reaction...I've eaten fatal counter 2C from this scenario, as well as him just holding collider waiting for the tech into a reset. The only thing I found effective was to air dash forward, as.......meh, I feel like I'm ranting at this point.

w/e...

It's come to the point where I kick him out of my house at times, and watching my DP clash with a 2A and the get 360'd out of the next attack has brought me on the verge of tears. Call me any degrading terms, I just want help.

WTF do you do when a Tager does stuff on reaction and positions himself so he can't get punished?!? Condition him to do things? Break his primers!??!!? lol please help :3

~L1F3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he's doing a tech trap with collider just airdash backwards j.2DD.

Just get the health lead and start turtling with 5D Gravity and blah swords. 3C is actually a very good normal against Tager from midscreen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If he's doing a tech trap with collider just airdash backwards j.2DD.

Just get the health lead and start turtling with 5D Gravity and blah swords. 3C is actually a very good normal against Tager from midscreen.

Tried that back in CT only to eat a sledge or be force to block it after the airdash back. He does things ON REACTION. I know it sounds stupid, but it's Tager and it is lol I can't spam gravity to keep him locked down and as for blah swords, he dodges/sledges/ducks as needed and I'm in recovery and he closes distance. Yes, I have beaten him with a health lead and impossibly impressive zoning and incredible prediction, but it takes a huge effort just to keep up with him. more tips would be pleasant though...

3c is a horrible normal because he 360's me on reaction, at max range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tager is strictly a mindgame character.

It took me almost a year to see through all of his tricks and condition myself to beat my friend (and thus all Tagers online as well).

Anyone can understand how to shoot a Tager and hit him when far away- and you can certainly improve your offensive timing.

The problem everyone seems to be having is when Tager actually gets in and has Lambda magnetized.

If you want to get better, then put yourself in danger.

Keep calm and get into his territory and get attacked by blockstrings and mindgames.

Don't try to attack during anything he does- learn the timing of all the attacks and mindgames (especially Gadget Finger) and improve your defense.

After you learn all of his timing, perfect block all of his stuff- especially 5D.

Don't try to rush away from him as he can get a Lambda who is retreating very easily- know when you can retreat and when you have to take a blockstring.

This process takes some time to condition the mind, but you really have to play differently against someone like Tager, especially with the amount of invincibility frames and priority his character is based around. But hey guys, he's bottom tier right? >.>

Also, if you feel like you're better retreating than perfect blocking and counter attacking, learn to Barrier Perfect Block.

It pushes Tager away fairly far and can be backdashed to further retreat from him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I played my friend again last night [watching him do magnetism shenannigans to my friend's tsubaki was hilarious] and I managed to beat him a few times. Kenja0, I took most of your advice, save for the instant blocking/barrier part. Why? Well, if he sees me instant block or barrier guard, he cancels whatever normal he's doing in 4D, which a bit too fast for me to react to lol

However, I did start conditioning him to do that so he "stays close to me," I'm pretty much looking for the 4D and backdashing when I feel it's coming or on reaction. That part really helped a lot. The only downside is that I have to sit there and eat a few blockstrings or do vastly different stuff; the second time I IB something to get out of 5/4D range he 2D'd me.

I also realized that I have to be really ballys and focus so hard just to get a CH 5D when he 2D's from 3/4 or 1/2 screen. In terms of mindgames, I gave up. I just switched things on the go as fast a I could, punishing when I could, and sitting eating magnetism like a starving peasant lol ONly once did I nearly perfect him, but it was so hard just focusing that one match...immediately after he actually perfected me back, but I won the last match by the cybernetic Saya cloned skin of my teeth... Truly and infuriating matchup.

On the plus side, I leanred that 3C beats Tager's 5A > 4D ONLY if you IB the 5A lol

I played another Tager on xbl recently, and I guard crushed him 3 times over the course of the whole match. That didnt feel like I learned anything... If anything, I wouldn'tm ind if someone could just friend me and set up some versus Tager training sessons. That would be nice I guess lol

Thanks a lot guys :3

~L1F3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sigh Im having troubles here too, for ex, if im at midrage, where he can sledge my C/D attacks, I dont know what to do, sometimes I just air backdash or just backdash, but this tager just uses B sledge which is safe on block and he's right next to me. =/ if I IB sledge what can I use to punish it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2A?

if you IB A sledge then you can throw out a A or B poke of your choice. A sledge is -7 on IB.

if its B sledge then you can IB and poke and it would beat any pokes he has or you can run which would beat a lot of his close range pokes...just don't back yourself in the corner. B sledge is -2 on IB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sigh Im having troubles here too, for ex, if im at midrage, where he can sledge my C/D attacks, I dont know what to do, sometimes I just air backdash or just backdash, but this tager just uses B sledge which is safe on block and he's right next to me. =/ if I IB sledge what can I use to punish it?

Or you get Tagers that get so angry because you're keeping them away that they start angrily sledging towards you. :I:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any videos showing how to fight Tager with Lambda?

I will save my vs. Tager replays and start uploading them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... Truly and infuriating matchup.

Um...this is without a doubt an advantage for Lambda. It sounds to me like your friend is just outplaying you the way you're losing to him, not like its the matchup lol.

Anyway:

Minori vs Yumura

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoCeXoijG8c

Goro vs Puu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkZoTpE7Ek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You 5D/214D until he does. Also note that if he sledges through a 5D and you think it's going to hit you, you can cancel the 5D into gravity seed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Um...this is without a doubt an advantage for Lambda. It sounds to me like your friend is just outplaying you the way you're losing to him, not like its the matchup lol.

Anyway:

Minori vs Yumura

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoCeXoijG8c

Goro vs Puu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkZoTpE7Ek

The Tager in the first match jumped way too many times than the Tager I play, although I have been getting better and I'm starting to win more often, like half or 50% of the time against him. Something that was kinda of a no brainer was just to calm down and focus lol those anti-air pressure strings into 214D or 236D dont work on my friend, as I've said before, he can sledge as soon as he lands. I found that 6DD > JC > j.2DD > j.214D~C works quite well...unless he ducks the 6D...

The start of the second video made me wanna puke. An American Tager is much more aggressive than a Japanese Tager, and blocking 214DC!? Madness. That won't work on a Tager that walks forward and back dashes all day. Also, Tager dropping those combos... CH 2D > 5C > Spark Bolt...or something lol and at 2:08, whiffing the 2D in Tager's face and not getting punished... I'm not gonna bash on the Japanese players, it's their style, but any American Tager would just churn that butter if they are that close to Lambda. The second round is something that will never happen when I play my friend...he would just walk forward to close the space instead of waiting for that 214DC.

Not to mention that Japan had the game WAY before we did, I can only do so much to even attempt at getting near their level of gameplay and yomi.

Although that wasn't entirely helpfully reference as I'm not likely to play a Tager that scared, I still appreciate the feedback. I just wonder what would happen if my friend player any other Lambda that's not from around here lol seeing as he wrecks house against Hazama's and Tao's like nothing.

Enough of my stupidity! You guys tried to help, and I am humbled by it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... but any American Tager would just churn that butter if they are that close to Lambda.

just can't beat those amish tagers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any tips on Tagers that volt tackle/sledge spam into 360/720 a lot? This matchup either goes REALLY REALLY well for me or it goes in the toilet as soon as I get magnetized...and I feel like I'm glued to this guy, which for Lammy is no bueno. D: I've been trying to time it and punish him with Lam's DP but I can never seem to pull it off in time. (Online lag doesn't...help much...grah...) >.<;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any tips on Tagers that volt tackle/sledge spam into 360/720 a lot? This matchup either goes REALLY REALLY well for me or it goes in the toilet as soon as I get magnetized...and I feel like I'm glued to this guy, which for Lammy is no bueno. D: I've been trying to time it and punish him with Lam's DP but I can never seem to pull it off in time. (Online lag doesn't...help much...grah...) >.<;

I tend to have that issue too. What I've been trying to do lately is be very patient and zone Tager as much as I can. You have to be very careful when he throws out Spark Bolt. When he can't get near you, chances are he going to do it or he'll usually do it in a combo.

I can use Tager a little bit so I can help if you want. (I added you btw)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your first priority should be to keep Tager out with careful zoning. Don't press D or 5C while you're in range for Sledge Hammer, if you're in that range try to get out of it. The matchup is very boring but it's in your favor. If you're magnetized you need to IB and jump/backdash away (they both have risks since Lambda's backdash is not airbourne and he can mixup your jumpout with Atomic Collider), if you know an attack is coming you can 214A him after IBing.

Don't use reversal Calamity Sword since he can also Sledge it. If your opponent is using B Sledge in blockstrings, IB the move before it and hit/grab him before B sledge comes out. If Tager jumps, 6D/2D him, if he blocks, cancel into 214D/214DC or jump cancel and get away.

If you want to oki him, do it with meaty 5B. He can't A buster since it needs 3 frames before the invincibility, and if he backdashes you can late chain into 6B by hitting B again to punish him. If he has 50 meter though don't even try that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I tend to have that issue too. What I've been trying to do lately is be very patient and zone Tager as much as I can. You have to be very careful when he throws out Spark Bolt. When he can't get near you, chances are he going to do it or he'll usually do it in a combo.

I can use Tager a little bit so I can help if you want. (I added you btw)

Yeah, I stared doing that. My friend plays an aggressive Tager, so I try to stay away from him best I can and zone him out. And yeah, spark bolt is definitely my one weakness. I always forget that it exists. >> I need to teach myself to pay attention to his spark meter lol.

Your first priority should be to keep Tager out with careful zoning. Don't press D or 5C while you're in range for Sledge Hammer, if you're in that range try to get out of it. The matchup is very boring but it's in your favor. If you're magnetized you need to IB and jump/backdash away (they both have risks since Lambda's backdash is not airbourne and he can mixup your jumpout with Atomic Collider), if you know an attack is coming you can 214A him after IBing.

Don't use reversal Calamity Sword since he can also Sledge it. If your opponent is using B Sledge in blockstrings, IB the move before it and hit/grab him before B sledge comes out. If Tager jumps, 6D/2D him, if he blocks, cancel into 214D/214DC or jump cancel and get away.

If you want to oki him, do it with meaty 5B. He can't A buster since it needs 3 frames before the invincibility, and if he backdashes you can late chain into 6B by hitting B again to punish him. If he has 50 meter though don't even try that.

Thanks very much for your replies, all of this is very helpful. Now to just remember this and not do the whole "forget everything once I actually start fighting..." thing again..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paying attention to whether he has spark bolt or not is reaaally important since it goes through ALL your projectiles ~_~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know, I just forget it exists entirely and pretty much ALWAYS forget to block it if it's used randomly. >>; Or even if he's predictable with it. I'm just that free. :v: I'm still in the process of leaning my matchups...and failing at it. *facedesk*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It just takes time, keep it up! :)

Maybe record some videos so we can give you more pointers based on your actual play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×