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kenja0

[CS1] Lambda vs. Tager

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It just takes time, keep it up! :)

Maybe record some videos so we can give you more pointers based on your actual play.

Hehe, thanks. ^^ I'm not awful I suppose, for being new to fighters and only having been playing CT since April. xD

And I don't have a capture card as of yet, but I do intend to get one and I'll definitely upload some stuff to try and get some tips later on.

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The trick with aggressive Tagers is to make them defensive, at least when playing you. You have to condition them to either block or eat damage.

The first thing I do when I play a Tager is 214D~C from fullscreen. If they block it, I'm playing someone with a brain - if they B Sledge, I happily CH 5D them for their troubles, and if they somehow magically time an A Sledge, I start sword pressure.

The choice they make is showing you what they think of the matchup - if they're B Sledging they obviously either don't know it or think that for some reason it'll be safe this time. Blocking it? Defensive Tager, you win. Timing A Sledge means they actually know this game and know how to play their character.

Additionally (though someone earlier called the Japanese Tagers bad, or something), if you watch the videos from the previous page you see the Lambda continuously pushing Tager away with sword pressure strings - I believe the basic idea of the one they use is 2DD 6DD j5DD j2DD j214D~C. And then he either lands and waits to see what Tager does, or does another 2D(D) and then lands and waits to see what Tager does. This is a VERY good strategy - the trick in this matchup is to use 236D(~C)/214D(~C) to force jumps, and then pressure with 2D. If they're trying to use that ghetto Tager airdash you'll get combos, and if they're blocking they end up a fullscreen away from you.

Also, just for everyone who says "DP GADGET FINGER"! If you DP after a Gadget Finger and Tager backdashes, he can 360/720 you for free because his backdash is longer than hangovers. The only way for this to be entirely safe is to gravity seed RC backdash... But that takes a lot of meter, and if you've committed to it you'll lose your chance at combos. I generally wait for the first gadget finger and see what they do - if they just mash into a blockstring/360 I DP the next time I get GF'd - generally this is a Tager that is unfamiliar with this matchup and so doesn't know how to beat your DP. What I -do- do is backdash, though - depending on what he does it generally gets you out.

I do have to say, those Japanese Tager vids, even if they weren't as useful for American players trying to learn the Tager matchup, were some PRIME examples of Lambda sword pressure. That was FANTASTIC keepout on the Lambda side.

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The trick with aggressive Tagers is to make them defensive, at least when playing you. You have to condition them to either block or eat damage.

The first thing I do when I play a Tager is 214D~C from fullscreen. If they block it, I'm playing someone with a brain - if they B Sledge, I happily CH 5D them for their troubles, and if they somehow magically time an A Sledge, I start sword pressure.

The choice they make is showing you what they think of the matchup - if they're B Sledging they obviously either don't know it or think that for some reason it'll be safe this time. Blocking it? Defensive Tager, you win. Timing A Sledge means they actually know this game and know how to play their character.

Additionally (though someone earlier called the Japanese Tagers bad, or something), if you watch the videos from the previous page you see the Lambda continuously pushing Tager away with sword pressure strings - I believe the basic idea of the one they use is 2DD 6DD j5DD j2DD j214D~C. And then he either lands and waits to see what Tager does, or does another 2D(D) and then lands and waits to see what Tager does. This is a VERY good strategy - the trick in this matchup is to use 236D(~C)/214D(~C) to force jumps, and then pressure with 2D. If they're trying to use that ghetto Tager airdash you'll get combos, and if they're blocking they end up a fullscreen away from you.

Also, just for everyone who says "DP GADGET FINGER"! If you DP after a Gadget Finger and Tager backdashes, he can 360/720 you for free because his backdash is longer than hangovers. The only way for this to be entirely safe is to gravity seed RC backdash... But that takes a lot of meter, and if you've committed to it you'll lose your chance at combos. I generally wait for the first gadget finger and see what they do - if they just mash into a blockstring/360 I DP the next time I get GF'd - generally this is a Tager that is unfamiliar with this matchup and so doesn't know how to beat your DP. What I -do- do is backdash, though - depending on what he does it generally gets you out.

I do have to say, those Japanese Tager vids, even if they weren't as useful for American players trying to learn the Tager matchup, were some PRIME examples of Lambda sword pressure. That was FANTASTIC keepout on the Lambda side.

After watching the matches that Sev posted after my ranting I felt pretty bad as a player, even though Mike Z still ended up winning, it made me realize that in all reality I was just getting out played and gimmicked to death until I got too mad to think properly...

Against most Tagers I generally play auto-pilot thanks to my friend, who is the most difficult person I've played [heh]. Yeah, if I see a Tager blocked 214D~C/236D I have a field day, but if they backdash it I tend to have a few problems. A few times I've 236C after the 214DC if I predict a backdash [obviously timed so that the 214DC is slightly in front of me to prevent the 360/720 when they land and make them block, or to catch their backdash]. Of course, I do this RARELY, I havent done that in over a month lol

As for the Japanese players compared to American players, they are just too defensive. Sure they know the metagame a lot better than we do since they've had the game for like a year already, but seeing Tager block so much that he almost gets guard crushed is kinda sad IMO. I mean, he just lost the match if he retreats in the very beginning. However, I did learn a lot on what to do against defensive Tagers, but I got very little when it came to very aggressive AND smart players. Is where most of the rage came from and I apologize.

Also I've NEVER found a use for Gravity Seed after getting Gadget Fingered [lol] I just get ready to break a purple throw and backdash... The only time I use that move is when I'm magnetized and Tager does 2D from like 2/3 screen away. 5D is too slow, plus coupled with the magnetism pull by the time it activates its behind Tager. I usually save my DPs for this, it's free 3k damage and Tager is full screen again. I just find j.2 very useful and placing wheels [236D] in front of aggressive Tagers to either force the to jump over it or walk back until it goes away or some other defensive option. I don't even try to break like 3 or 4 primers against Tagers like that anyways, as it seems like a waste. If I 236DC they can sledge out of it, hell they can just jump over it and get in since the recovery is do long.

~Blargh....

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Also I've NEVER found a use for Gravity Seed after getting Gadget Fingered [lol] I just get ready to break a purple throw and backdash... The only time I use that move is when I'm magnetized and Tager does 2D from like 2/3 screen away. 5D is too slow, plus coupled with the magnetism pull by the time it activates its behind Tager. I usually save my DPs for this, it's free 3k damage and Tager is full screen again. I just find j.2 very useful and placing wheels [236D] in front of aggressive Tagers to either force the to jump over it or walk back until it goes away or some other defensive option. I don't even try to break like 3 or 4 primers against Tagers like that anyways, as it seems like a waste. If I 236DC they can sledge out of it, hell they can just jump over it and get in since the recovery is do long.

~Blargh....

Gravity Seed against angst/aggressive Tagers. Get your response and reaction time up.

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this match up is hard but possible all he has to do is walk forward and dodge swords. if lambda does 5d tager jumps forward if she 6d's tager ducks. repeat till you get close if lambda 3c's 360a will win all the time. tager must never walk back if he does he'll lose, and never block her wheel just jump up, Asledge spike chaser at the right distance and right time and tagers fine. if shes magnatized the matchup is 6-4 tager

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this match up is hard but possible all he has to do is walk forward and dodge swords. if lambda does 5d tager jumps forward if she 6d's tager ducks. repeat till you get close if lambda 3c's 360a will win all the time. tager must never walk back if he does he'll lose, and never block her wheel just jump up, Asledge spike chaser at the right distance and right time and tagers fine. if shes magnatized the matchup is 6-4 tager

part of them problem is with the lambda player thinking they are gods creature and have this right to beat tager without thinking..... ideally if you set baits 5d or 6d you can create situation to make tager fall into a trap. if using 6d makes tager crouch it is still your favour even if it whiffs because he is not moving forward and stationary and also he has no dash. This is an advantage since tagers only has a few way getting in but stoping his movement is a faourable advantage, The same can be said about hakumen that 6d stops him from moving since his dash puts in air hit leading to damage but at the same time he is no threat if he cant move holding a crouching position. Just bait it and AA with 6a/2d/5a/6d/air throw.

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snip

I don't think you quite understand this match-up. What else are japanese Tagers going to do? Their high-level players are far beyond ours, they understand the game a lot more and have more experience with it. Lambda's character design just totally trumps Tager's, what is he going to do besides be defensive? Be aggressive? Not jump and get chipped away at all day long? Your counter-measures against an aggressive Tager completely shut the strategy down. He has to slowly and painstakingly make his way in every time you get out of range, and if he gets in, YOU fucked up.

The point of 214D and 236D in this match up is not even close to attempting to guard break Tager. You're forcing him to jump or eat a broken primer, and neither option is good for him. If he jumps, you 2D/airgrab/6A him. What is he going to do to prevent this? B sledge? If you do 214DC (which you can't backdash afaik) it's a FREE CH5D into 236C combo. The most he can do is A sledge and that moves him forward a little and you still get to start pressure from afar.

A Tager playing this match-up aggressively is not a smart player. Potentially the only way I see them being a smart player whilst being aggressive is getting you magnetized or taking advantage of your poor zoning. Tager being aggressive in this match-up isn't a good plan for him. You need to tighten up your zoning and learn how to deal with his shit. They don't play defensively because that's their style, they play defensively because they have to 90% of the time.

This isn't an absolutely free match, but it's definitely in Lambda's favor.

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japanese play is to overated. they just do what they think your supposed to do. you dont need to block EVERYTHING. if your tager is good enough like i said jump 5d's when they come out, dont jump when theres nothing there then you'll eat a block string. duck 6d's AND DONT STAY DUCKING after you duck just walk forward again.

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I agree with loerg, this match is 6-4 in Lambda's favor and nothing more.

Don't take Tager for granted, it's not a free match (though this thread makes it seem you fight some pretty bad Tagers).

He HAS answers to zoning, but he must use them carefully, and when he does he can easily turn the tables on you.

It's a slow and mind-game oriented match, Lambda's goals are zoning, running away not making mistakes while chipping away his life bar, and Tager's goal is forcing that one mistake out of you that could cost the match.

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japanese play is to overated.

I said high-level players. You know, people who get in to SBO. That's hardly over-rated, because americans can't make it past the first round for the life of them.

Second, I didn't mean to make it sound like there's shit-all Tager can do, but being aggressive is definitely not going to work. His whole game plan is to get you to screw up and make a mistake by being patient.

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this match up is hard but possible all he has to do is walk forward and dodge swords. if lambda does 5d tager jumps forward if she 6d's tager ducks. repeat till you get close if lambda 3c's 360a will win all the time. tager must never walk back if he does he'll lose, and never block her wheel just jump up, Asledge spike chaser at the right distance and right time and tagers fine. if shes magnatized the matchup is 6-4 tager

ugh...let me break this down for you.

lambda never has to use 5D in this match up unless she is punishing sledge lol.

3C at max distance will beat even 720 so 360A will not work.

if she decides to use spike chaser then she wants you to sledge for a free 3-4k.

if you even so much as throw out a bad sledge then say hello to full screen and good bye to any chance of closing in without spark.

spark is tagers only real saving grace aside from her screwing up.

simply put tager has to make lambda feel to comfortable and then punish her when she gets wreckless or trade with spark...take your pick.

hell I don't usually lose to lambda's but online lambda's suck ass so enough of that.

this match up is a 6.5 in lambda's favor, you have to play it real safe here, and never for god sakes throw a sledge full screen.

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ugh...let me break this down for you.

lambda never has to use 5D in this match up unless she is punishing sledge lol.

3C at max distance will beat even 720 so 360A will not work.

if she decides to use spike chaser then she wants you to sledge for a free 3-4k.

if you even so much as throw out a bad sledge then say hello to full screen and good bye to any chance of closing in without spark.

spark is tagers only real saving grace aside from her screwing up.

simply put tager has to make lambda feel to comfortable and then punish her when she gets wreckless or trade with spark...take your pick.

hell I don't usually lose to lambda's but online lambda's suck ass so enough of that.

this match up is a 6.5 in lambda's favor, you have to play it real safe here, and never for god sakes throw a sledge full screen.

As a Lambda main, what do i do if tager just walks forward?

6D? If you have decent enough reaction, tager can duck under and resume walking while /\-11 is in recovery frames...like a LOT of recovery frames. 4D? tager can backdash on reaction. sure he loses distance and puts us neutral again, but HE HAS MORE SPARKBOLT METER NOW!!

NOTE: Tager should not IB a ground sword and hope to punish with SBolt, as /\-11 can special cancel into gravity and use the invincibility frames to avoid both chip damage AND magnetism. lol

back dash? then tager keeps walking forward. same if /\-11 IAD backwards.... super jump IAD over him? hello 2C/airthrow [throw break obviously] and j.2DD tager back to the ground and backup some more. if she IB/barriers the 2C, /\-11 eats a collider

j.2DD block strings at a safe distance where tager cant sledge? then he IB's it, gets more meter than /\-11 AND KEEPS walking forward.

stand still? well, that's not gonna end well and i dont even need to describe the horrors...lol

spikechaser? really now? backdash it. 236D? normal jump it or sparkbolt her FOR FREE since its has ridiculous startup/recovery frames. so what if it trades? the wheel goes away, /\-11 wallbounces, and tager gets a combo. SBolt beats spikechaser clean.

most i can do is dash TK sabers/feints and hope he cant block a 17 frame overhead or sledge it on reaction or some other silly nonsense lol you know, since /\-11's 5D is useful ONLY for punishing a sledge. what, do i play footsies with my normals? well, that actually works lol

3C at max range? then tager IBs it and get meter. act pulsar follow up? 360/720 beats it all day. delay the pulsars? 360/throw all day lol gravity? spark bolt lol most she can do is IAD back or super jump is he has SBolt.

lol the most "wreckless" thing a lambda can do is dash 5B/gravity if tager sledges within sword range

also, AXIS, i have xbl and im callin you out lol i just wanna test some stuff and see if theory fighting really is the power of science lol for fun dude, as i want more tager match up experience and Loerg doesnt have xbl anymore.... this match up sounds like 5-5, as if each player block EVERYTHING and avoids the primer breaking moves, whoever chips the other the most will win via time out lol this is a match up about reaction skills and walking lol also, lambdas swords dont chip right away...

~Life

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I can take you on right now but man am I in a bad mood.

so I am gonna clarify a few things that annoyed me in this match as I played both ends of this.

1. yes tager can duck under 6D but he is in no position to throw anything out, only thing he can do is walk which as we talked in the match up thread puts lambda in a position to react.

2. yes its true backdash does allow him to close the gap but the best part is he isn't gonna do shit unless he has a spark and if he has one...lol I'll get to that in a second.

3. if tager normal jumps it he gets to block more swords...

4. TK fients works great if you condition tager to do nothing when you rush in but I warn you its more risk than reward.

5. 3C at max range can't be 360'd even on IB unless magnetized.

6. now lets talk about spark...spark fucks every last thing I said to hell so what do you do about spark...avoid it, never for god sakes get touched by it, tager can fuck lambda's face up if she is magnetized, it turns the match inside out and ruins everything so avoid it, don't even get touched by it which is easier said than done.

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Not completely true about 6D. Tager can 2D under 6D and get in.

Then Lambda cries.

I finally read lif3's post. I'm annoyed. You act like everything you do you lose because OMG tager gets meter. How about this.

Stop pushing buttons. We won't get meter. If we don't get meter and you don't push buttons clearly THE GAME CANNOT BE WON.

Probably the most useless post in this thread is this one. But second most is his gargantuan post about how scary Tager is and everything Lambda does is useless.

Swords annoy Tager. Throw them out LIBERALLY.

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Lambda is so free in this match up, tager just needs to be patient swords dont do chip damage he just need to Ib everything and sledge/5a through the holes.

9-1 tagers favor

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Lambda is so free in this match up, tager just needs to be patient swords dont do chip damage he just need to Ib everything and sledge/5a through the holes.

9-1 tagers favor

What's he going to do? Spark Bolt us to death?

We can just slap his magnetic hands with Gravity Seed and deny him the secks.

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i just wanted to liven things up here is all lol Heroic, you are godlike XD and skye is too funny lol And I do throw swords at tager, alot of 5DDs too to make him jump and stuff, wheels to make him do defensive stuff, and drop gravity on his ass to keep him in place so i can throw more swords at him lol and ill eat a spark bolt for the sake of good sportsmanship. combo videos for all!

i also complain alot cuz my reaction skills got worse since i stopped play SSBM 2 years ago and picked up Halo 3 before finally settling on BB lol and my yomi/mindgames are poor due to me playing games that didnt require lots of thought [smash and halo] and just have really good execution from said games sooo... yeah.

i admit defeat. still lookin out for those matches, AXIS!!

ggs

~Life

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What's he going to do? Spark Bolt us to death?

We can just slap his magnetic hands with Gravity Seed and deny him the secks.

Skye post sounded like sarcasm to me~~ or a really bad troll bait.

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only react to her! dont let her react to you! and its impossible to not get magnatized and like a.x.i.s said once shes magnatized shes screwed so doesnt that mean shes just screwed lol

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Skye post sounded like sarcasm to me~~ or a really bad troll bait.

It's not "bad" if people fall for it.

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lol yes dont listen to these. just play the game and have fun, dont listen to people about tier lists or playing on stick or any of that, play the player, if you lose against tagers do something different if your winning keep doing what your doing thats all you need to know really lol

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