The "Picking a Main" thread

[Ajantas]

Thanks Airk and Dark Ranger88, now that you have said it that way it definitely makes sense to continue to learn Hazama specifically if different "rules" apply to him in movement etc. Though now I understand that if I am whiffing my 2A (for example), the opponent has gained enough place from the pressure to be outside 2A range or the move they use just aren't getting hit by it (say Jin's 6B and Ragna's 2D) and should try poking later or earlier or maybe not at all? So maybe I should look into more of the Revolver action (whatever its called) of some characters to see what flows into what and when it ends etc. I also normally barrier block in-corners and in the air (Though I imagine air barrier block seems to make the most sense), would using normal block instead of barrier block help (sometimes) since if I recall barrier block pushes the enemy further away so you might just give them more space. Sort of confusing cause I assume barrier block is better cause it gives me more space but at the same time, I sort of want them a bit closer.. dunno weird logic maybe?

A few observations I want to ask about also, people doing jump into barrier block in corners often, is it specifically to stop overhead, crossup shenanigans or is it legit to get space in the corner to breath. Considering the only way I think you can respond to it is do an IAD grab and you can tech grabs if you are expecting it so its sort of an empty threat?

Plus I see a few things like I assume you call frame trapping, such as Ragna's 5B>5C>2C or 5B>2C>5C since they have long range you don't have to make them connect instantly I see like a delayed 2C or 5C after the initial pokes and a 5B. I believe you can so something similar with Hazama's 5B>2B>5C>2C? (though this is going into Hazama specific territory and need to learn how long you can delay them. Funny enough though I few things I see from videos don't seem to work cause in online play nobody seems to respect anyone's pressure (me included) so something like a 2A>2A>Dash>2A or 5B>5C>214D-A Hazama stuff works on match videos but people just mash it out.

I have renewed vigour for learning Blazblue in the next game and hopefully I can up my game for this installment.

[Delrian]

Thanks Airk and Dark Ranger88, now that you have said it that way it definitely makes sense to continue to learn Hazama specifically if different "rules" apply to him in movement etc.

Though now I understand that if I am whiffing my 2A (for example), the opponent has gained enough place from the pressure to be outside 2A range or the move they use just aren't getting hit by it (say Jin's 6B and Ragna's 2D) and should try poking later or earlier or maybe not at all? So maybe I should look into more of the Revolver action (whatever its called) of some characters to see what flows into what and when it ends etc.

It could be either, though the former is far more likely to be the case. You should try to recognize the maximum distance that your 2A will hit, and try not to press it when they are either too far, or you feel like there is a frame trap coming (a frame trap is where the opponent does a series of moves that give you a small gap that you can attempt a 2A, but you will get hit if you try to do a non-invincible move). Checking out the revolver action (sometimes called gattlings on this site) is definitely a good idea though, even if it's not the reason your 2A is missing.

I also normally barrier block in-corners and in the air (Though I imagine air barrier block seems to make the most sense), would using normal block instead of barrier block help (sometimes) since if I recall barrier block pushes the enemy further away so you might just give them more space. Sort of confusing cause I assume barrier block is better cause it gives me more space but at the same time, I sort of want them a bit closer.. dunno weird logic maybe?

In Blazblue you have a number of good defensive tools to use while on defense:

- Barrier Blocking increases the pushback of moves while they are blocked, giving you more space. However, it does drain the barrier gauge (which can lead to Danger state if you don't conserve it), and gives the opponent more frame advantage compared to normal blocking (You're in blockstun for a frame or two longer, IIRC). As you mentioned, it also allows you to block air-unblockable attacks (making it even more important to conserve). This is mostly used in pressure to push the opponent far enough away that you can try to get away from them.

- Instant Blocking decreases the pushback of moves compared to normal block, giving the opponent less space, gives you more Heat, and decreases the blockstun on the move that was instant blocked compared to if it was normally blocked. Typically if you're going to try poke or reversal out of pressure, instant blocking is the type of blocking you want to do.

You can also combine instant blocking and barrier blocking for an instant barrier block (IBB?), which increases the distance even further than normal barrier block.

- Counter Assault is an Alpha Counter that is very important for characters, as it gets the opponent off of you (much like burst) so long as it hits. It gives plenty of invincibility on the move itself (but are generally unsafe when blocked).

- Blue Burst is kind of like a Dead Angle with a different hitbox, and uses up your precious burst instead of your meter. Can be baited in similar ways to Dead Angles.

- Gold Burst is a type of reversal that is +1 on block, launches for an easy hitconfirm, and doesn't take away your primers like a blue burst would. Though this option will be replaced by Overdrive in BBCP.

A few observations I want to ask about also, people doing jump into barrier block in corners often, is it specifically to stop overhead, crossup shenanigans or is it legit to get space in the corner to breath. Considering the only way I think you can respond to it is do an IAD grab and you can tech grabs if you are expecting it so its sort of an empty threat?

The other way someone can stop chicken blocking is that, for a few frames while one is jumping, they cannot block. Using a string of moves that have a small gap would give them the time they need to start a jump, and then hit them right in the middle of their jump. Alternately, if you suspect they are holding up-back to try to chicken block, they can't block low in that string. After they get up in the air though, you can make them block more moves (using up more barrier) and they will fall back to the ground where you can mix them up again. Mixing this up with air grab might catch people occasionally (though if they tech the air throw, they get a solid chance at escape).

Plus I see a few things like I assume you call frame trapping, such as Ragna's 5B>5C>2C or 5B>2C>5C since they have long range you don't have to make them connect instantly I see like a delayed 2C or 5C after the initial pokes and a 5B. I believe you can so something similar with Hazama's 5B>2B>5C>2C? (though this is going into Hazama specific territory and need to learn how long you can delay them. Funny enough though I few things I see from videos don't seem to work cause in online play nobody seems to respect anyone's pressure (me included) so something like a 2A>2A>Dash>2A or 5B>5C>214D-A Hazama stuff works on match videos but people just mash it out.

For frame traps there are two types: The type that you describe is often called staggers, intentionally delaying cancels in your pressure in order to create gaps too small to mash out of. The other type involves any situations that aren't cancels, and use frame advantage from the first blocked move to execute the second one, leaving a small gap. You'll see a lot more of the first one in Blazblue and Melty Blood.

As for online, if they aren't mashing reversals, then you can beat them with a stagger just by delaying your normal pressure strings. If they're using reversals, you'll have to stop pressing buttons (usually) in order to bait (and punish!) those threats specifically.

I have renewed vigour for learning Blazblue in the next game and hopefully I can up my game for this installment.

Hope I helped, even if this information is a bit out of place in this thread. You can also check out the Hazama forums for information on his pressure, defense, etc. (Though for some reason you'll have to go to the archive section for information on CSE...)

Edited October 6, 2013 by Delrian

[Dazardz]

Hey guys, I need a little help too, so if you've played Guilty Gear, I need your help.

I've played Blazblue since CT, started trying to get good at CS2 and now I just do some online in extend. Then I started playing Persona, better at that game rather than Blazblue and I use Elizabeth and Akihiko. Now I want to play Guilty Gear, I bought the game but it seems incredibly hard. I was surprised at how fast it was, but that was just a breeze. The challenge is combos, getting used to the different mechanics and etc. but first I'm going to need a character to learn.

In Persona 4 Arena, Elizabeth has to be my biggest love. I still don't know why, but I know I picked her because she looked cool. She can zone and play rushdown quite well, she has huge damage but still has a big learning curve. I liked all that about her. Also the 5B and j.b range, makes me feel safe. Then I also play Akihiko. I like him because of his unique play, with the ducks, tricky evasions, high damage, solid rushdown, cross up, unblockable etc. (And this is why I'm trying Slayer sometimes...)

In Blazblue Extend, I play pretty much only Lambda. Because she can zone and play some good close ranged game. I say close ranged I can play her because of her easy Oki supported by a really decent mixup. If you don't think it's true, 214DC > 2B. 214DC > 214D. 214D. 214DC > Throw etc. She was also unique, looked cool, swords everywhere but I'm pretty sure it is the fact that I can zone and play some rushdown.

Now in Guilty Gear, I've already been trying some characters. I don't think I can play any of them, but that might just be the difficulty of Guilty Gear.

Millia:

The Okizeme is real..... also combos seemed like something for me to start the game on.

Testament:

The zoning is great, not sure about how he is close ranged though. Don't get me wrong, the Oki is great and I like it. Only decent thing I've seen in combos is his loop. But that's not a problem though.

Slayer:

The auto cross up... yeahhhhhhh. Also heard he can do high damage pretty easily, and I like his dash and jump cancels.

A.B.A:

I like her incredibly insane rushdown.

Axl:

Haven't tried him much, but it's how he can hit from a range.

Ky:

The Okizeme again, I'm obsessed with Oki.

Dizzy:

I picked her because she looked cool, and then she also has some tricky oki. Not sure I like her, because I don't like combos that involve holding another button, I don't have an arcade stick.

Eddie:

Now, I only picked him because he reminded me of Shabrys and Carl, don't even consider him though.

Johnny:

Forgot about him, had to edit my post. I chose him because the execution was easy, he had an instant overheard, and he had long range.

That's all. Thanks. Hope you get back to me soon so I can start practicing some combos.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dazardz

[mAceOfHearts]

You might want to stick with Ky while you're still learning, then worry about picking a Main later. Ky's probably the most "standard" character of the ones you listed, though I definitely don't mean that in a bad way.

You also might want to stay away from Slayer until you've got the core gameplay down. He plays so differently from everyone else, using him at first might cause you trouble later on. Once you're comfortable with the game, then you might want to give him a whirl.

(He uses Link Combos, not Chain Combos like everyone else.)

Oh, and you might want to check out the Guilty Bits series of videos. Those were pretty helpful when I tried learning Order Sol.

Edited October 18, 2013 by mAceOfHearts

[Delrian]

It's a good thing you like oki, because everyone in GG has it. :X

Have you seen Novril Takaki's Guilty Bits videos on the characters?

And while GG requires you to be more precise with your inputs (since there isn't the BB/Persona repeat inputs on 5 frames), don't really worry about the "difficulty", honestly. Just worry about playing the game.

The only combo involving holding down a button for Dizzy is bubble loop, which you won't be worrying about for a while (if ever, I usually only see that stuff in combo videos). That said, Ky, Testament, Slayer, and A.B.A also seem like good choices for you as well... I guess pick one for a bit and see if you want to keep playing that character for extended periods of time.

[Dazardz]

Thanks for the quick responses, and yes I have been watching Guilty Bits. It's the reason I wanted to get into this game at the start. I've watched every video, except from the Dizzy one yet, so I know that I will hate Eddie without an arcade stick. Oh, and the bubble loop really isn't a problem for now? That was the only reason I wasn't sure about Dizzy.

I'm already aware of Slayer's learning curve, I just wanted a headstart. mAceOfHeats showed me that, combos with Slayer was something that could really break my fragile mind. At the beginning I thought it was just about learning how to move with him.

Okay, that's it then. For now, I'll try some Ky.

[InWithTheAshes]

While you seem to be pretty set on Ky, just because he didn't appear in your first post I would say Venom also fits your description pretty well. He has an amount of strong pokes and projectiles, perhaps the best oki aside from Dizzy/Millia, and a pretty fine up close pressure game. He's somewhat strange and definitely not straightforward, but he definitely applies to what you described.

Also, concerning the spear and negative edging: While it's correct combos with it aren't common within matches, holding and releasing it (or just keeping it there as a threat until it automatically fires) can help a lot in neutral, and releasing it at certain times can be seen in oki setups.

Also, seriously, once you can afford to spend the money, buy a stick. It doesn't really take that long to learn and, while the game is perfectly playable with a lot of Characters using pads, sticks overall do help your precision in inputs. It's not neccesary, bu it is a reccomendation.

[Monarch]

I'd like some advice about choosing my main please. So I was a Tsubaki user staarting in CSEX. I had CP in my hands since Oct. 25th, and I finally relearned everything I needed to about Tsubaki. I love strategising and figuring out what works best in a situation, and I love long combos and keeping pressure on my opponent. All this being said, I wanted to consider adopting Izayoi as my main. Ever since I saw her in youtube videos and played as her in training mode for hours, I'm entranced with learning her. But I can't figure out if I should main or sub her.

My problem here is I realized she's very DP heavy. I suck at entering DPs mostly. The command is just so... finicky with an analog stick. It's really the only thing stopping me from putting down Tsubaki and figuring out Iza. Any advice?

[Martian Buddy]

When I played on pad a consistent way of making DP's come out was to very quickly go forward, roll the stick down to the down position, then to the down-forward position. In terminology, you're basically doing 6323. I don't have CP yet but if it's as input friendly as previous BlazBlue games you should be alright.

[Celerity]

I'd like some advice about choosing my main please. So I was a Tsubaki user staarting in CSEX. I had CP in my hands since Oct. 25th, and I finally relearned everything I needed to about Tsubaki. I love strategising and figuring out what works best in a situation, and I love long combos and keeping pressure on my opponent. All this being said, I wanted to consider adopting Izayoi as my main. Ever since I saw her in youtube videos and played as her in training mode for hours, I'm entranced with learning her. But I can't figure out if I should main or sub her.

My problem here is I realized she's very DP heavy. I suck at entering DPs mostly. The command is just so... finicky with an analog stick. It's really the only thing stopping me from putting down Tsubaki and figuring out Iza. Any advice?

Serious advice, stop using the analog stick. It's definitely the slowest and least accurate directional input device for fighting games. I can see how Izayoi would be difficult on one, because her combos require a lot of rapid directional inputs. If you do pick her up, remember that you have to get used to entering the DP as 623B exactly, because 6236B won't work after a teleport.

[Monarch]

Serious advice, stop using the analog stick. It's definitely the slowest and least accurate directional input device for fighting games. I can see how Izayoi would be difficult on one, because her combos require a lot of rapid directional inputs. If you do pick her up, remember that you have to get used to entering the DP as 623B exactly, because 6236B won't work after a teleport.

DP... without my analog stick? The idea seems so unreal, yet executing a DP actually sounds easier with my D-pad now that you put it under the light like that. Is this how most people do it then? Because only 50% of my attempts to use DP in a real match work when I use analog. T^T

[Celerity]

DP... without my analog stick? The idea seems so unreal, yet executing a DP actually sounds easier with my D-pad now that you put it under the light like that. Is this how most people do it then? Because only 50% of my attempts to use DP in a real match work when I use analog. T^T

Yeah I don't know anyone who uses analog, although I've heard some people say they do it for Street Fighter or games with easier execution. It does have some good points: super jump cancels in particular are easier than on D-Pad, and you'll get less ghosting. But if you really want to keep using analog, you need to get something like an AGE pad where it's in a more natural position, and it's more convex and springy to allow for much easier double-tapping.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Celerity

[RifleAvenger]

I use analog, but I also play on 360 style controllers. Which have ass D-pads, and the placement and shape of the analog stick is better imo. I stick to d-pad when I have to play on PS3 controller for the exact reasons Celerity pointed out.

However, if you're going to have to drop money on a new controller, you might want to seriously consider just getting a stick instead. Stick has its perks, which the higher price and time spent learning to use it buy.

Edited November 11, 2013 by RifleAvenger

[Austin_QED]

Okay, I've always played around on bb but never took it seriously but considering how I made a jap psn for this (and +R because it was getting ridiculous) might as well take this seriously.

I ADORE Venom, I love almost everything about the character, if there's a character like that in BB, please tell me. (And I mean playstyle wise, just want to put that down because eh, might as well)

I also ADORE Bulleta's playstyle, I know that may seem weird considering I also adore Venom, but I do.

I really like Makoto and Rose's playstyles as well.

I'm not going to go over all the characters I like to play/enjoy playing because that would be too long.

I guess I would love if there is a Venom-ish character in the game, Bulleta next.

Anyone has any suggestions?

EDIT:I guess I like to setup lots of weird neutral nonsense and then think on my feet with those neutral tools.

Quirky but organic neutral game?

I don't mind high execution but I do mind silly one button adjustments in training mode, it annoys me when I have to go into training mode 36 different times to do this setup on 36 different characters with a 6 button guess because the character's tech time/hurtbox/my hitbox is wonky.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Austin_QED

[Celerity]

I would say probably either Rachel or Mu-12.

Rachel is a setup character with decent zoning and devastating mixup/oki, but her midrange normals are among the worst in the game, so she's reliant on wind and summons to get her pressure started. She has very poor defensive options, though she is very good at running away. She's a very unforgiving and technical character who requires a ton of situational awareness, so you'll never get bored. Rachel is somewhat like a mix between Bulleta and Venom, actually, so I suspect she's who you're looking for.

Mu uses her steins to apply pressure and cause headaches in neutral, but she's opposite of Rachel in the sense that her normals are very strong and her mixup is fairly weak. She has an amazing meterless reversal and very good comeback potential. I would say she's a pretty good beginner character, though you have to invest a lot of time to get 100% out of her in every matchup, as with most zoners.

[Austin_QED]

I was thinking about both of those characters, 2 people I know play mu, so I'll probably go with Rachel.

[MRydralle]

I'd like some advice on picking a BB sub and GG main.

First I'll talk about my BB experience. I've been playing it since Extend's English release and once I hit character select I immediately thought "Noel will be my main!". I spent a year maining Noel and I still like her Extend playstyle. But then I discovered a character that was even more fun to play and made me understand Blazblue's mechanics (and even stuff from fighting games in general, like properly applying pressure, oki and mixups) more. Said character is Litchi. Started learning her some months ago (like 8 months ago) and was quite satisfied with my new character. I felt she had almost everything I needed (range, normals, corner carry and a mixup-oriented gameplay) and 13 Orphans was an amazing DD. But then I stopped playing BB for a while because of other games.

I got digital CP as soon as it was up in the PS Store and the first thing I did was hit training mode with Litchi. It felt like something different, but that was to be expected from a new game. Her neutral game got better, she got an excellent normal (4B) and more ways to deal damage at the cost of making me miss the old 13 Orphans. After checking the new characters I settled Litchi as my CP main. But I still think that's not enough. I'd like to play as someone else too, especially if said character has a not too similar, not too different gameplay from her. I'm lightly considering Tsubaki and/or Izayoi.

And now on GG... I have almost no experience with it. Who could I pick there that has not the same, but a somewhat close feel to the BB characters I mentioned?

[Diveman]

If you like Litchi in BB you could try Venom in GG as in both are good at controlling space, have long ranges normals, good AAs and excellent okizeme.

For Tsubaki definitely Order Sol.

[excelence]

I'll say Bridget is pretty much hard mode of Litchi have everything Litchi has except knockdown... and Tsubaki is Order Sol after being hit by Bulldozer, The same with Izayoi... i'll say she is weaker version of I-no, they share similar oki games, But I-no Hit like a truck once she start her stuff rolling, while Izayoi need to warm up a little bit.

[Celerity]

For a BB sub, I would probably recommend Tsubaki, simply because she's a lot easier to learn, and teaches you the fundamental concepts of BB a little better than Izayoi, who is a fairly difficult and unique character that requires some commitment to understand her neutral and pressure options.

For GG, I would recommend Millia if you want good pressure and oki. Maybe try Johnny or Axl if you're looking for a more spacing-oriented style. It's hard to say since GG characters are so versatile in general, and "somewhat similar but different from Litchi" describes like 80% of the cast.

[Airk]

and Tsubaki is Order Sol after being hit by Bulldozer,

I'm really sick of people saying this, because it's completely WRONG. These two characters are NOTHING alike except that they both have a gauge they charge up. If Potemkin had a 'charge gauge' would that make HIM 'just like Tsubaki'? No it would not. And Order Sol is nothing like her either. The two characters have fundamentally different strategies, normals, and approaches the the match. They just both have a gauge. Whoopeee.

[excelence]

It's up to you to say Tsubaki is simillar to Potemkin... of all GG character, the closest i can think to Tsubaki is OS ... and fundamentally different strategies? welp captain obvious ... if u want to play exactly like Tsubaki, stay on playing Blazblue there's no tsubaki in GG

[Airk]

It's up to you to say Tsubaki is simillar to Potemkin... of all GG character, the closest i can think to Tsubaki is OS ... and fundamentally different strategies? welp captain obvious ... if u want to play exactly like Tsubaki, stay on playing Blazblue there's no tsubaki in GG

You've missed my point, I think. The point is that there are other characters in GG who probably play more like Tsubaki even though they don't have her charging mechanic, because they have a more similar offensive gameplan. Just because two characters share some superficial similarity doesn't mean they are actually much alike.

Saying "Oh, oh, the Tsubaki of Guilty Gear is Order Sol!" is like saying "Ky is totally the Jin of Guilty Gear." which is true on some superficial level, but basically false when you get down to any level of actual detail.

[Diveman]

Well he DID say he wanted something "similar" in GG to what he knows in BB, no need to get angry if someone says "pick OS if you like Tsubaki" and he would probably relate some stuff OS has to Tsubaki etc, then he can start working on specifics, but if someone asks me about a character who has a similar feeling to Tsubaki I would always say OS.

[Mcgreag]

Well he DID say he wanted something "similar" in GG to what he knows in BB, no need to get angry if someone says "pick OS if you like Tsubaki" and he would probably relate some stuff OS has to Tsubaki etc, then he can start working on specifics, but if someone asks me about a character who has a similar feeling to Tsubaki I would always say OS.

Personally I think Jam is closer to Tsubaki than Order Sol is but maybe that's just me.