Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Ginseng

[CS1] Tsubaki vs Tager

Recommended Posts

Discuss the Tsubaki vs Tager matchup here.

Things to watch out for:

  • 5C
  • 2C
  • 6A (beats your DPs and catches your backdash if magnetized)
  • 360s/720s
  • Gadget finger into mixup in his favor.
  • Sledge (beats your DPs)
  • If you get magnetized, you usually have to block and accept it.

Things you can use:

  • You have more time to charge.
  • 2C if he jumps in on you.
  • 5B pokes with charge cancel/jumping.
  • Use j.D to bait out spark bolts.
  • Dead angles if you can't get out of magnetized pressure.
  • Combo into 236236C to get him away from you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll start this one off actually, because as I see it, this is a clash of two characters who love being in the enemy's face, Only Tager does way more damage there, compensated by the fact he's immobile.

How on earth do you get in on Tager? As far as I can see, there's nothing stopping him just standing there and waiting for you to come to him and pummeling you for the slightest error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tager's AA attacks still suck, so jumping at him is an option, also you can poke a lot with 5B its long, has a convenient hit-box and is +1 on block; also 5A is very fast and will beat most of Tagers attacks if your in range. Just play it really safe, taking risks against Tager isn't a great idea because Tsubaki is super easy to grab with 360/720, and never ever do the shield rush without meter to back you up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How on earth do you get in on Tager? As far as I can see, there's nothing stopping him just standing there and waiting for you to come to him and pummeling you for the slightest error.

Then don't go to him... simple as that...:v:

Jumping at Tager is bad... you don't know if he will 2C trade or 623C

This is a spacing match

Here is a hint: if Tager can't rush you down, what is the one thing any Tsubaki SHOULD be doing?

:psyduck::psyduck::psyduck:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holding D and pelting him with that air projectile? I've found even having a lot of stocked charge to be questionably effective since you still need to get at him to inflict the damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you think having lots of charge meter is meaningless and you don't want to get in on him then this character probably isn't for you?

but with all do respect,

I mean obviously you have to get in to do any dmg... so... get in there and hit him... he is big, he is slow, yea... what is tager gona do to you when you are out of his reach and you can just go in and out of his range before he can touch you? You just out space him, he does a slow move, you punish... and you hit him with those pent up meter... then you get out and get more meter and rinse and repeat...

"oh he has spark bolt." well... block or jump over it or something...

"oh i am magnetized." well... that's too bad, deal with it with your defense or strike him before he can strike you.

know your reach, know what moves you can use to punish against Tager, know what moves Tager shouldn't be getting away with, and know ur characters capabilities

probably good to know a little about Tager too and what he can do as well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me most of the battle is in the minds of the players. I've found most of my trouble comes with my opponent learning my habits and me paying for it with psychic colliders and 360s. At least Tsubaki has some of the better options regarding being Fingered.

Is the general consenus not to bother with using heat for anything other than RCs and the odd CA?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
if you think having lots of charge meter is meaningless and you don't want to get in on him then this character probably isn't for you?

but with all do respect,

I mean obviously you have to get in to do any dmg... so... get in there and hit him... he is big, he is slow, yea... what is tager gona do to you when you are out of his reach and you can just go in and out of his range before he can touch you? You just out space him, he does a slow move, you punish... and you hit him with those pent up meter... then you get out and get more meter and rinse and repeat...

"oh he has spark bolt." well... block or jump over it or something...

"oh i am magnetized." well... that's too bad, deal with it with your defense or strike him before he can strike you.

know your reach, know what moves you can use to punish against Tager, know what moves Tager shouldn't be getting away with, and know ur characters capabilities

probably good to know a little about Tager too and what he can do as well...

I think we all understand the point of being out of reach against Tager. The problem is that Tsubaki is a rushdown character with VERY short range -- You NEED to be up in their face. No matter how I look at this, Tager has the upper hand in this match. Yes, we need to zone. Yes, we need to watch out for the spark bolt. Yes, we need to be extra careful when magnetized. But you're giving very broad answer without good suggestions. You're also telling him to get in and hit him and at the same time, telling him to zone. I understand you need to do both, but they're contradicting statements. I don't know... I just feel like you're trying to criticize others without good feedback. We're all trying to help each other here... Not to bash each other. We're all new here since some of us don't have daily access to a machine. You're probably better than me here... So instead of giving us broad answers like "deal with it", how about some friendly suggestions?

Anyway, enough ranting. Tager has the upperhand in this matchup in my personal experience. You DO need to zone against this character, which goes against Tsubaki's nature. Tager will be working extra hard to get in, so you need to catch him off guard. He'll especially try to rush into you if you're charging freely. He'll be distracted on how to get into you, so it'll give you time to find openings.

22D reset is one of the biggest tools in this match up. If they're not expecting it, it's almost guaranteed this hits. Just make sure you're not playing predictably... I found that 5B (from out of reach of Tager's throw) into 22D REALLY helps, since he might try to buffer that throw.

2C AA will also help since Tager's best way to get into someone is to j.C. Just watch out for the trajectory and timing change.

I think he can also 360 you during your blockstrings if he can IB (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) so you need to be extra careful.

If you get magnetized, ZONE HIM. He has a HUGE upper hand. It was to the point where I couldn't do anything. Maybe I didn't know how to attack when I was magnetized, but for me, it worked to stay away until magnetism went away.

Is the general consenus not to bother with using heat for anything other than RCs and the odd CA?

Yes, Tsubaki is better off using RCs and CA than using it on DD. There's few instances where using DD helps though. With one bar in the corner, you can install and get 4k+ from a throw. You can also get close to 5k or so with 3 bars in the corner. But yes, For the most part, it'll be used for RCs and CAs (or even Astrals!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tsubaki is a Rush down character... but why must you think you must fight him as a Rush down character manner?

I said go in and hit him, i did not say go in and RUSH him down, going in and hit him is different then saying go in and Rush him down... cause if i wanted to say rush him down i would of specifically put rush him down... but your goal is to just hit him so you can release the charges on him.

I dont give you a straight answers is because i want you guys to actually think this match up not only in terms of Tsubaki vs Tager but the mentality of this match up as well, instead of me just giving you answers... giving you answers might work a few times, but since this is a fighting game and both player evolves, those answers can change. So i usually give a broad answer so you can think about it. It was only meant to help, but if the way i am saying it is offending you or not helping at all.

well i am srry... cause i am just writing this out on a forum, so to me it sounds fine, but to others it doesnt' cause its not like i am standing there and talking to you in a conversation where i can elaborate with words instead of me typing it out and only looking understandable to myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tsubaki is a Rush down character... but why must you think you must fight him as a Rush down character manner?

I said go in and hit him, i did not say go in and RUSH him down, going in and hit him is different then saying go in and Rush him down... cause if i wanted to say rush him down i would of specifically put rush him down... but your goal is to just hit him so you can release the charges on him.

I dont give you a straight answers is because i want you guys to actually think this match up not only in terms of Tsubaki vs Tager but the mentality of this match up as well, instead of me just giving you answers... giving you answers might work a few times, but since this is a fighting game and both player evolves, those answers can change. So i usually give a broad answer so you can think about it. It was only meant to help, but if the way i am saying it is offending you or not helping at all.

well i am srry... cause i am just writing this out on a forum, so to me it sounds fine, but to others it doesnt' cause its not like i am standing there and talking to you in a conversation where i can elaborate with words instead of me typing it out and only looking understandable to myself.

Understandable that you can't explain everything in a forum or a post. Tactics WILL change too. As soon as we find to counter to *this specific move from this character*, they will find a counter to our counter. Regardless of others' help or not, we will eventually find a way around it... And I think that's where this forum helps... If we find a way around, why shouldn't we share the information with others? I understand you want others to think for themselves which is GREAT, because they'll be able to adapt at the spot, but sometimes we need some guidance.

I mean, I could go into another characters' thread, ask a question, and someone will point an answer to me. On the other hand, you say, "deal with it, find a way around", and THAT doesn't help me at all. Also, "go in and hit him" is very vague. WHEN is it safe for me to go in and hit him? I mean, that's the whole discussion, because Tager can literally be churning butter and as soon as we cc or reset from close range, he'll 360 or 720 you. If it is as easy as "go in and hit him", we wouldn't have this discussion at all.

Am I out of the line to be questioning this? I'd like a detailed answer when I ask for some tips, not a vague "go in and hit."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22Ds aren't really reliable if you're against a tager who can 360/720 on reaction (Not many can do this fortunately).

I don't really have much to put on here, seeing that the vs Tager matchup is rather annoying to me as well. But I can put in a few words:

  • Do NOT get greedy with unblockables or resets. You're just asking to get 360/720ed or whatever.
  • When you can, charge. When you get the opportunity to do damage, make it COUNT.
  • If you get magnetized, put in gadget finger setups, and other disadvantageous situations, block and hopefully find a way out. If all else fails or you don't want to deal with it..burst.

Yea these things aren't really saying much, and I too lose to Tager quite a bit (stupid Coopa and his ability to do IB 360s/720s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Proto: no, in fact if you actually asked what part you dont understand it probably be easier to actually answer ur questions and maybe be more clear, cause if we were actually talking in person, you probalby be asking when i am talking, reason why i feel typing on forum is only understandable usually to myself since i am rambling to myself on trying to answer someone elses questions...

the thing when you get in and hit is, you aim for when tager is trying to hit you with any big slow moves since tager can't RUN at you he can only approach fast by jumping.

Seldge is not an answer, you can practically counter that if you were actually watching him

2D, is easy to avoid if you knwo its distance and its reach. So when i say get in and hit him, you dont just randomly get in and hit him but you aim for the opportunities. Obviously you got to know a little bit of tagers recovery and move property and his options..

Tager mashing 360 and 720 is always a problem. however 360's can't grab you unless you stuck out a move as he was doing the grab.. however at max range 5B to 22 stuff, if ur not magnetized he can't grab you, and even if you were magnetized i think you are barely out of reach for both of 360s Reason being i am saying know Tsubaki's reach.

Unless i guess the Tager player was Holding down A Buster maybe he can grab you..but i dont think B version has that long of a vacuum..besides, these things you just got to sort of anticipate since you dunno what the other player is thinking or is he even THINKING at all, so you got to read them...

Spacing game is basically leaving that gap between you and tager making the Tager approach you, since he can't run he can only walk at you or jump... or options are basically keep him from jumping in

if he does jump in jsut prepare to AA, if he wants to 2D or sledge or whatever you just have to reaction and punish or avoid.. if he is just walking at you, you can just sort of dash in 5B at max range to see what he does and keep that gap there.. Therefore your not rushing him, ur just watching and spacing... and i guess ur zoning... but ur also getting in to try to hit him to see what he does

for magentizm its basically when this is now tagers favor, reason i say deal with it.. was cause since i already know Tager options, this part you just have to play alot or at least learn a bit of Tager to know his options... Knowing ur options isn't gona help when it comes to player preference but it at least helps in general.

But all in all, it is actually a lot easier if instead of only knowing tsubaki, you know Tager too... cause if you dunno what tager can do you, then ~.~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since it's fairly easy to get 5 charge vs tager, you can do easy troll combos on him!

Like.... 22D x n!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Tager player I will say this:

Tager does not want Tsubaki to charge.

Tager cannot get in safely on Tsubaki.

...

CONUNDRUM HEAD ASPLOSION :v:

Also, magnetism is a two-way street.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Tsubaki player i will say this:

Tsubaki wants to charge against Tager

Tsubaki can keep out of Tager's Range

...

CONUNDRUM HEAD ASPLOSION :v:

Also, magnetism is a two-way FREEway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Tsubaki moderator I will say this:

Tsubaki can troll other characters easily (except the top 3).

Ginseng likes to self-troll himself.

...

CONUNDRUM HEAD ASPLOSION

Also, magnetism is a two-way EXPRESSway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Tager player, I will say this:

Tager will watch your life. If you are below his life, you're most likely looking for a reset.

Tager will watch your life. If you are above his life, he's most likely mashing 720.

"But what if both your healths are even?"

...

CONUNDRUM HEAD ASPLOSION

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Tsubaki player, I will say this:

Tsubaki will watch your meter. If you are below 50%, you're most likely mashing a 360.

Tsubaki will watch your meter. If you are above 50%, you're most likely mashing a 720.

"But what if Tager was mashing 236236B?"

...

CONUNDRUM HEAD ASPLOSION

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what is tager gona do to you when you are out of his reach and you can just go in and out of his range before he can touch you?

uh... Sledge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
uh... Sledge?

I think Sledge is more devastating because it guards 5B... Something about 5B being a projectile or something :psyduck: Could be wrong though... Someone check up on that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sledge isn't an answer being, A sledge doesn't go far and is punishable on IB, and B sledge has slow start up if you just randomly throwing it out to get in, she just runs up and hit you before your sledge comes out...

and 5B isn't a projectile. unless you have had 5B getting out sledged before then that is news to me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well obviously i know 5B isn't a literal projectile and know what you were referring to in the first place, also you can stop thinking about it being projectile property, cause it doesn't have projectile property, or it couldn't have beaten Sledge at all.

And saying Nirvana blocks 5B, i dunno how she gona block it? i think maybe ur 5B just didn't reach Carl ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×