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worldjem7

BB:CS Match-Up Chart

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It's funny that people make Bang out to be this Godlike, "ridiculous" character when he's not. If that tierlist is trustworthy, he has four 6.5 matchups, two 6.0 matchups and the rest are nearly even. How exactly is that ridiculous?

If you're going by worldjem's data table, Bang has a better match up score than CT Rachel, and Litchi has a better match up score than CT Nu. That is pretty godlike and ridiculous. In fact, I'd say that makes them god tier! Granted, worldjem's CT chart wasn't exactly accurate because of "lol American" input, but the top tiers were fairly accurate in match ups. The CS chart is based on the JBBS match up chart, so it's pretty accurate and isn't likely to change any time soon.

Top three in CS are stupid, but they're just stupid for different reasons than CT's top three.

Anyways, you guys need to calm down a little. I don't want to have to create another thread genocide. :|

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dude there is no risk in jumping all over the place and j.b'ing

Yeah and there's also no reward.

Litchi has to take risks just like everyone else. She may get a bigger reward than most, but she still has to take risks. Ignoring that fact just because her rewards are high is just being biased.

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-wakes up-

-looks at new posts in thread-

-finds alex name in post-

-see's walls of text in alex's post-

:vbang::vbang::vbang:

why are we talking about bang and litchi?

we already know bang is all about broken 5A.

we know litchi is about lol 4k damage and 50 meter with corner and oki that makes you wanna let go of the stick and walk away.

lets move on before alex makes another "lol" post.

IMO ragna is the model S tier of the game fuck bang and litchi.

LOL @ someone saying tager has it really bad with CS top tiers.

chart says: 6.5-3.5 with bang. much better than 7-3 with nu FUCK YOU THAT .5 MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

6.5-3.5 against litchi. 7-3 against nu was impossible...I can't punish her just a mistake.

4.5-5.5 against ragna. 2.5-7.5 against arakune...lets not even talk about this.

whoever said tager has it hard with CS top tiers have never played skilled top 3 players with tager in CT...this shit is a cake walk compared to CT.

/end stupid post.

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I have a question for you guys, lets just say

bang, litchi, and ragna get tamed

tager, tsubaki, rachel were put on steroids

with a couple of the cast getting a few tweaks (taunt loop, arakune's damage, lambda's corner loop, etc)

and a couple of the cast going untouched.

This results in a more balanced game, than CS, with Hakumen and Carl becoming the new S tier, simply because they were untouched. Do you think people would still complain about them? Obviously people do have legit reasons for complaining about the top in CS and CT, after all they are ridiculous, but would carl and hakumen get the same treatment?

Would we start to hear complaints about how they are dealing too much damage? (IMO carl, hakumen, and tager should be the highest damage dealers in the game considering their character designs. Now that doesn't mean that other characters shouldn't be able to match their damage, ofcourse not, but carl/hakumen/tager should be able to attain bigger damage a bit easier than the rest. I don't know why tager got a damage nerf in the first place. Just like how lambda, because of her design, should have to waste meter to keep up with the rest of the cast for most of her stuff, so atleast they are on the right track with her)

Would we hear complaints about how their pressure (hakumen with magatama, being sandwiched) is too good and needs to be toned down? (lol, this could come up)

Would people start complaining about how brainded easy it is to execute their gameplan like they do with other top tiers?

Would we hear alex come on here and whine about how rachel..... (hahaha, I had to put this on here)

My point is, no one is complaining about carl/hakumen RIGHT NOW. Will this change if they become the new top because they were unchanged?

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I really don't complain about the balance of CS or CT, the problem is their character design in relationship to mine and what it does to the match.

The only characters I currently bitch about are Litichi and Hakumen, because of what they turn my match into, Arakune was number 1 on my shit list in CT, but after the rework it doesn't bother me. Nu/Rachel/Carl were p.bad too, but between Nu/Carls remake, and Rachels nerf into shit. I don't mind them any more either. I hated the Litchi match in CT, and in CS guess what I still hate it, I never liked the Haku matchup but you know 4C being added made me like it less. Everyone else had details that bothered me a little but not too much.

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What's the matter with Arakune's damage?

It doesn't need tweaking.

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I have a question for you guys, lets just say

bang, litchi, and ragna get tamed

tager, tsubaki, rachel were put on steroids

with a couple of the cast getting a few tweaks (taunt loop, arakune's damage, lambda's corner loop, etc)

and a couple of the cast going untouched.

This results in a more balanced game, than CS, with Hakumen and Carl becoming the new S tier, simply because they were untouched. Do you think people would still complain about them? Obviously people do have legit reasons for complaining about the top in CS and CT, after all they are ridiculous, but would carl and hakumen get the same treatment?

Would we start to hear complaints about how they are dealing too much damage? (IMO carl, hakumen, and tager should be the highest damage dealers in the game considering their character designs. Now that doesn't mean that other characters shouldn't be able to match their damage, ofcourse not, but carl/hakumen/tager should be able to attain bigger damage a bit easier than the rest. I don't know why tager got a damage nerf in the first place. Just like how lambda, because of her design, should have to waste meter to keep up with the rest of the cast for most of her stuff, so atleast they are on the right track with her)

Would we hear complaints about how their pressure (hakumen with magatama, being sandwiched) is too good and needs to be toned down? (lol, this could come up)

Would people start complaining about how brainded easy it is to execute their gameplan like they do with other top tiers?

Would we hear alex come on here and whine about how rachel..... (hahaha, I had to put this on here)

My point is, no one is complaining about carl/hakumen RIGHT NOW. Will this change if they become the new top because they were unchanged?

i would not complain about carl because he still has to work really hard dealing with the fact that it is really really easy to simply hop out of pressure in this game to even get to put someone in a big damage situation. The match for rachel vs hakumen in cs i do complain about already because there is not shit you can do against him. they need to buff rachel so she can rush him down. as it stands you cannot zone hakumen. Lol its hakumens easiest match-up in the whole game.

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What's the matter with Arakune's damage?

It doesn't need tweaking.

12k damage off of stupid.

5k ok

6k reasonable on some

7k damn thats sick

8k-12k shouldn't exist

at least the haku-men one was too situational to be used often.

noel needs 100 meter and a FC for hers.

but arakune just needs a random j.C or 2C with a curse and voila death combo.

you might find it reasonable but in all truth its dumb.

we both know it is.

@ soujiro: yep because they are top tier.

@ shinso: arakune is on my shit list and ragna too a lesser degree.

in CS I'm gonna hate litchi because the same issues are still present and they made her better. :vbang:

ragna because its too many online...fuck online.

@ SJ: vote bang for god tier.

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12k damage off of stupid.

5k ok

6k reasonable on some

7k damn thats sick

8k-12k shouldn't exist

at least the haku-men one was too situational to be used often.

noel needs 100 meter and a FC for hers.

but arakune just needs a random j.C or 2C with a curse and voila death combo.

you might find it reasonable but in all truth its dumb.

we both know it is.

It's a bit radical, but not at all dumb or unbalanced.

Truth be told, if you get cursed, the match should belong to him.

It should.

But non Tager people have many tools to avoid every single bug, not only though movement, but through Counter Assaults, bursts, gold bursts, reversals, etc, those which do apply to Tager also.

Sure he can lock you down and hit with either of the two, but it's only a circumstance.

His 12ks are situational just like Hakumen's.

He needs to hit with a jc or a 2c, the curse gauge has to be near full, meaning the attack has to hit when they're first cursed, if he commits to a 2c and it's blocked, he wastes curse meter due to the insane recovery time, on average he'll score roughly 8-9k, trying.

He can go for simpler mixups at the sacrifice of damage of course, which is the often taken route.

As easily as he can score a 12k, it's just as easy to avoid it and thus the possibility of eating 12k, because the longer you last, the lower your chances and the lower the damage if he actually hits you.

It's a two sided guessing game, and over head or a low.

High rewarding (as curse mode should be), but not at all broken.

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Okay, i guess i could wind myself upward and hopefully when i land hakumen wont be already airdashing at me. Anyway, hakumen is one of those characters that up close and rachel is on the defense even in ct you have no options but to run away and summon something. Do you even play rachel? do i need to bring some hakumen vs rachel vids to show what why that match-up should be higher for hakumen?

bold = Whaaaaaaaaa?

Also, I'm confident in my abilites to beat you in a Rachel mirror, if that's what you're asking. :yaaay:

Yes, bring those videos please.

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In CT, Rachel could start mixup on hakumen just like any other character she fights. Most Rachels zone the fuck out of Hakumen not because it's her only option; but because setting up the playground makes hakumen laughably free.

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Do you think people would still complain about them? ? (lol, this could come up)

Pretty much, even if Carl has a high learning curve, it would be no excuse.

I mean, both Rachel and Litchi have high learning curves{by BB standards} and that doesn't stop people from complaining. Not that it should be an excuse anyway. Point is, a lot of people are going to hate on characters not their own.

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Who wants a new tier list???

HEre you go!

[bBCS] Character Ranking 2010 April "Arcadia"

S: Litchi, Arakune, Ragna

A: Arakune, Hakumen, Carl

B: Hazama, Jin, Taokaka, Lamda

C: Tsubaki, Noel, Tager

D: Rachel

Well it looked like they fucked up and didn't proofread, Bang is still probably number two.

Doesn't seem like the tier list changed

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Who wants a new tier list???

HEre you go!

[bBCS] Character Ranking 2010 April "Arcadia"

S: Litchi, Arakune, Ragna

A: Arakune, Hakumen, Carl

B: Hazama, Jin, Taokaka, Lamda

C: Tsubaki, Noel, Tager

D: Rachel

Well it looked like they fucked up and didn't proofread, Bang is still probably number two.

Doesn't seem like the tier list changed

What. Bang is second? What does Litchi have that's better than his 5A?

And Arakune is now A tier. What. :8/:

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Who wants a new tier list???

HEre you go!

[bBCS] Character Ranking 2010 April "Arcadia"

S: Litchi, Bang, Ragna

A: Arakune, Hakumen, Carl

B: Hazama, Jin, Taokaka, Lamda

C: Tsubaki, Noel, Tager

D: Rachel

Well it looked like they fucked up and didn't proofread, Bang is still probably number two.

Doesn't seem like the tier list changed

Looks like it changed significantly.

What match up info regarded Arakune to be A tier?

From all the info I've been given, it looks like he and Tao should be switching places.

Alex, you're retarded. CT Rachel has 1000 options to get out of pressure.

Yeah! she has 2c, blocking.

Uh....barrier and.....

997 other really neat stuff for her to get out of pressure.

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real talk all the other 997 neat stuff is just mashing.

LOL @ arcadia list...tager is C tier again. :(

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If you're going by worldjem's data table, Bang has a better match up score than CT Rachel, and Litchi has a better match up score than CT Nu. That is pretty godlike and ridiculous. In fact, I'd say that makes them god tier! Granted, worldjem's CT chart wasn't exactly accurate because of "lol American" input, but the top tiers were fairly accurate in match ups. The CS chart is based on the JBBS match up chart, so it's pretty accurate and isn't likely to change any time soon.

Top three in CS are stupid, but they're just stupid for different reasons than CT's top three.

If I remember correctly worldjem didn't even change the chart to fit the American views. He just took the original chart and averaged out any disagreements. Also, if you subtract Hazama and Tsubaki from the chart Bang is only 90 above balanced, the exact same score Rachel received in CT. For Litchi, she ends up being at 75, exactly what Arakune had in CT. Yeah, that is overpowered, but is that truly ridiculous.

At most I would consider Bang and Litchi to be S tier. Godtier is simply absurd. Especially when you compare Bang and Litchi's strengths to God tiers in other games (ie: Jojo's, MvC2, ST, etc.). I still believe that Bang and Litchi are overpowered, but not so ridiculously overpowered that they dominate the cast.

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Wait... Arakune is

in two spots at once

ABOVE Hakumen? what the fuck? how?

EDIT:

The thing about Litchi and Bang being god tier is that they're god tier on CONTINUUM SHIFT standars, not MvC2, or Jojo's, or HnK.

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The thing about Litchi and Bang being god tier is that they're god tier on CONTINUUM SHIFT standars, not MvC2, or Jojo's, or HnK.

I agree with the quirky Mexican.

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Wait... Arakune is

in two spots at once

ABOVE Hakumen? what the fuck? how?

S+ Tier by SBO.

I've been saying this for months. :v:

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Wait... Arakune is

in two spots at once

ABOVE Hakumen? what the fuck? how?

EDIT:

The thing about Litchi and Bang being god tier is that they're god tier on CONTINUUM SHIFT standars, not MvC2, or Jojo's, or HnK.

Wait, wasn't "god tier" (by definition) a char that literally OWN the rest of the casting with practically no big problems?

That would put Bang and Litchi out of that definition. They're very good, but they still need some effort to win (and they definitely can be defeated by other, lower ranked, chars). It's not like MvC2's Mags or Sentinel, who can merciless rape the rest of non-Top chars in game because they can take great advantage of that game's stupid gimmicks (while the rest of other chars can't).

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This validates what Zong and Dacid were saying. :vbang: I knew this would happen, Arakune is too weird to accurately predict what his changes will bring about.

*camera slowly pans away*

ARAKUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNE

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The thing about Litchi and Bang being god tier is that they're god tier on CONTINUUM SHIFT standars, not MvC2, or Jojo's, or HnK.

If we look at a straight up numbers comparison Bang is not even close to being considered God Tier.

Dhalsim (ST): 6.6875 average matchup in his favor

Rei (HnK): 6.25

Kakyoin (Jojo's): 6.55

Bang (BB:CS): 5.75

Hell these characters aren't even the God tier in their own respective games. They are just the top tier. As you can see Bang doesn't even come close to being as overpowered as top tier characters in other games if you were to look at straight up numbers.

All of this info was based off of the most recent and accurate matchup charts.

Also, I think Zero000 is just trolling. I call bullshit until a link is given.

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