BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[Dacidbro]

I don't think most people are kidding themselves here;

While being better than CT (IE, not as stupidly ridiculous), CS' top tier is pretty unreal. This is one of the reasons they are saying they will rebalance on console. Litchi, I'm sure, got better damage/corner push than they intended, because of the new proration system. Airthrow daifunka for 5.2k had to have been an accident. 100% curse combos are stupid, but Ara's normals could be better.

[Shine]

In place of what?

I think j.C could be added.

I was typing on my phone. Sorry.

In place of 5c. Really, I've never been hit with 5c fatal, so i really don't know what sort of damage or set-ups he can do from them(enlighten meeeeeee). Though i would replace it with J.C as it is an instant overhead that leads to his most damaging combos and a hilariously good move that makes his mix-up game even more dangerous(in curse mode btw). Very dangerous move that can fuck you up for making one mistake.

[Dacidbro]

Yeah, but I don't actually think that's broken. I just think it should be much harder to hit curse; getting hit once = curse (off the right hit) just feels so stupid. Should be a build over time, and then goes crazy. Should have a curse-infliction-cap for each move; IE, 5C's curse cap at 50 for that combo, 3C's at 60, air grab at 40, etc (Values example only, not 'omg them valus perfict')

[Skye]

I have to disagree.

100% curse combos are a bit radical, but it's not at all that bad of a deal, if anything they should mess with some tech times as to avoid such things for the most part.

People just have to be more careful when in the air or in the corner. Otherwise, people would be even more permitted to be reckless and run around the place with no worries of anything other than the occasional cloud in their way.

The same way people avoid Spark Bolt, 720, Jayouku, etc.

It's not a game breaker and it helps him as a character greatly without completely shifting match ups.

And isn't that balanced?

FC dive cancel loops are legit, it's fair to say the least that he should have some sort of advantaged combo from a Fatal.

Reworking the curse system is really unnecessary, and if it would happen, it would happen for the 3rd installment of the series.

It would suck for Arakune players to relearn they character again in the same game.

[Irrsinn]

Nerf GETB plz it does 2 much dmg.

In place of 5c. Really, I've never been hit with 5c fatal, so i really don't know what sort of damage or set-ups he can do from them(enlighten meeeeeee).

FC 5C leads to dive loop, also I think that the teching time from FC 5C is long enough to let you do jD>5D>jA>jC>jD, giving you 100 curse meter.

[Narcowski]

Personally, I like the way Arakune works now. Reminds me less of Testament + Eddie and more of Testament + A.B.A.

Bang (and Rachel, for that matter) could be pretty much fixed with some simple proration changes.

Litchi probably needs the most revision of the cast, mainly because combo untechable time was changed in a way heavily slanted in her favor in addition to all her other buffs.

[Matt]

Information.

Alright, thanks for spelling it out for me. I just had it confused because I was remembering some Sirlin stuff I read a while back and he made God tier out to be this totally unconquerable group of characters that completely dominated the cast. Then, when I looked at S tier in tier lists, from my experience, the characters were overpowered but not unbeatable. Yeah I read Sirlin and believed it ;(.

[feri]

S tier is just S tier, not god tier!

Bang/Litchi/Ragna do not qualify for god tier on the basis of that they do not make a large majority other characters obsolete (We are talking 9:1 matchups and at the very least 8-2 across the board).

IIRC sirlins god tier example was Akuma in ST and you honestly think he is like BBCS TT? lol

[-Ladon-]

mmm people seem to be confusing the difference between TOP and GOD tier

when you classify someone as GOD they are usually banned or outright unplayable to anyone else in the cast, Akuma in ST is a solid example because even though he was available he had so many tools around the other cast that it outright made his character the best

we're not talking possible 7-3 matchups, if there were a matchup chart for these characters it'd set them at WORST 8-2

the most comparable example would be unlimited's being allowed, matchups that are so far ahead of the other characters it outright breaks the game, just like EX/black/gold/whatthehellever guilty gear characters.

sagat was top tier in sf4, the -TOP-(not god) 3 in CT were top for a reason, these characters are strong, but not to the point of outright broken.

when you define someone as god tier it's pretty much like saying they are too broken for the game to be considered playable in any serious matches. This is why S, SS, SSS, SSS+ exists, or at least what I believe is why those ranks exist, to give variation between ranks.

hope this clears up some confusion, although I'll admit saying god tier has pretty much evolved into saying S tier, which is just how people say it because most fighting games nowadays don't have anything close to a GOD tier character.

[Dacidbro]

Skye, I would agree with many 100 curse combos if you didn't get one hit kills in curse. Arakune's gameplay suddenly isn't "wow I have so many tools" it becomes "I'm going to use these 4 fucking moves til they work (Air-grab, yomi 5C, 6A > 5D autopilot blockstring for curse/jump cancel pressure, 3C RC autopilot) and whenever they're far away I'm going to autopilot party bug/cloud. As far as I've seen this is how it looks even in Japan. I've never seen a successful Ara that doesn't troll air grab constantly.

[ZONG_one]

I've never seen a successful Ara that doesn't troll air grab constantly.

It's not trolling. 3f jump with air throw is (lol) GOD TIER.

It's a great tool. The reason you haven't seen a successful Ara that doesn't air grab, is because unless you troll air grab, you're not going to be successful.

[shtkn]

they really need to make jumps as slow as 5As (and make throws a frame or 2 faster than that)

[ZONG_one]

I don't know. Everyone's jump is 4 frames, except two characters.

A decent 5A is 5 frames. Not close enough?

[smooshman]

It's not trolling. 3f jump with air throw is (lol) GOD TIER.

It's a great tool. The reason you haven't seen a successful Ara that doesn't air grab, is because unless you troll air grab, you're not going to be successful.

same concept as not freezing with Jin, not setting balls as venom, not landing coins as Johnny, not having your playground as (CT) Rachael, not having random net and trees as testament, and not having little Eddie as Eddie..... etc.

[shtkn]

most 5As are 6 frames iirc. I know 1-2 frame differences are miniscule generally... but not in this case. It'd make jumping out of blockstrings much much harder and force players to have a decent ground game.

[Dacidbro]

No, smoosh, those are completely foreign concepts to using your air grab over and over and over again and gaining the potential for a one shot kill as a result every single time.

[Master Bigode]

they really need to make jumps as slow as 5As (and make throws a frame or 2 faster than that)

They should speed up the normals instead, because slowing down jump start up would probably make this game even more slow paced.

[Skye]

Skye, I would agree with many 100 curse combos if you didn't get one hit kills in curse. Arakune's gameplay suddenly isn't "wow I have so many tools" it becomes "I'm going to use these 4 fucking moves til they work (Air-grab, yomi 5C, 6A > 5D autopilot blockstring for curse/jump cancel pressure, 3C RC autopilot) and whenever they're far away I'm going to autopilot party bug/cloud. As far as I've seen this is how it looks even in Japan. I've never seen a successful Ara that doesn't troll air grab constantly.

Again, it's something that you have to be careful about.

Everyone talks about how easy it is to break grabs in BB, time for people to put their money where their mouth is.

If Arakune is spamming air grabs, you can easily out-space it with whatever, pace yourself and don't rush in like you'd like to. Best case scenario (assuming you're vs Arakune) you score a CH combo.

Auto piloting bell and cloud is a bit rash with the way you put it. Those are great zoning tools that are only safe to execute full screen (most of the time), and when was it wrong to use the best tools available to you?

It's like criticizing Ragna autopiloting 5b or Hakumen's jc, and out of respect I won't mention Bang's autopilot options, it's a good tool, why not use it when it's safe to?

As for the air grab, it's escapable unless you're caught being reckless. And if anything, some of his 100 curse combos should stay if only for their situational circumstances. Arakune sucks under pressure, the least he can use is something to make his opponent actually have to think and be strategical instead of just running in there and mashing block strings and frame traps--which they already do, effectively.

[Irrsinn]

You have serious mental problems if you get grabbed by someone who's spamming grabs all the time.

Specially someone who's using a character that has an grab you know is fucking deadly.

[Lord Knight]

CS S tier is S tier the right way. CT S tier was retarded and strong, CS S tier is just strong.

I'm feeling Hakumen replacing Ragna as S tier btw.

[Spirit Juice]

Pretty much exactly my point, CS will feel more broken once the next one comes out. Every Rachel player will weep tears of joy and lament how bad she was in the past. Tager players... will probably just accept that he's always going to be the underdog.

Except you're not getting my point at all. XX and #R were very unbalanced. I mean, over half or half the cast was generally considered almost unplayable in comparison to the rest. That is pretty damn awful compared to CS or even CT. The last tier list I remember for #R went all the way down to G tier, although a more recent one probably didn't go that far down the alphabet. Still, the game was much more unbalanced than CT or CS.

You probably would have had to played the games competitively to understand.

[Dacidbro]

Again, it's something that you have to be careful about.

Everyone talks about how easy it is to break grabs in BB, time for people to put their money where their mouth is.

If Arakune is spamming air grabs, you can easily out-space it with whatever, pace yourself and don't rush in like you'd like to. Best case scenario (assuming you're vs Arakune) you score a CH combo.

Auto piloting bell and cloud is a bit rash with the way you put it. Those are great zoning tools that are only safe to execute full screen (most of the time), and when was it wrong to use the best tools available to you?

It's like criticizing Ragna autopiloting 5b or Hakumen's jc, and out of respect I won't mention Bang's autopilot options, it's a good tool, why not use it when it's safe to?

As for the air grab, it's escapable unless you're caught being reckless. And if anything, some of his 100 curse combos should stay if only for their situational circumstances. Arakune sucks under pressure, the least he can use is something to make his opponent actually have to think and be strategical instead of just running in there and mashing block strings and frame traps--which they already do, effectively.

You have serious mental problems if you get grabbed by someone who's spamming grabs all the time.

Specially someone who's using a character that has an grab you know is fucking deadly.

Yeah, you know, I said the same thing about the air grabs. Then I realized, they're 7 frames and can counter hit. And I actually watched a shit ton of Japanese video; almost literally every Arakune win is "Oh air grab counter lol"

[A.X.I.S.]

You have serious mental problems if you get grabbed by someone who's spamming grabs all the time.

Specially someone who's using a character that has an grab you know is fucking deadly.

have you seen ara's air grab range?

I seen skye(YAH THAT FUCKING SCRUB) grab me out of fucking J.A's and shit.

do not get me started! I will have SJ nuke this thread again!

LOL owned

[Dacidbro]

What were you expecting, all this thread ever is is the same clueless people posting things they don't know about like they're fact, later to be proven wrong and be ABSOLUTELY STUNNED.

[A.X.I.S.]

What were you expecting, all this thread ever is is the same clueless people posting things they don't know about like they're fact, later to be proven wrong and be ABSOLUTELY STUNNED.

that's the point of this thread.

someone says something stupid and you argue it only to have SJ point out how dumb both people are and leave us with the most witty summary we have ever heard.

but fixing jump start up would be nice.

I'm tired of people mashing jump like a fucking retard.