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worldjem7

BB:CS Match-Up Chart

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You speak the truth, and I mentioned that. But compared to alot of other characters (especially the other higher tiered ones) he's still the most risky, its just that the reward for the risks is really, really good.

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Yeah, I definitely agree there. Bang, Litchi, and Carl don't have to take risks nearly at all for pressure. (Carl has to take risks elsewhere though, and taking hits badly doesn't help)

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Ragna is risky only if he chooses to be.

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Sure, but if your playing a no risk game and being defensive, then you're really not maximizing the character. The payoff for the risky(ish) rushdown is huge damage, meter, and great oki; if you aren't trying for that you'd be better off playing another character. (IMO)

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ragna is risky and has nice delicious sized wholes in his pressure.

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unless, they are fake holes, and you get punished for trying with...INFERNO DIVIDER lols

ragna is really good, he just dies fast and his mixup is easier to block then litchi bang and carl.

midscreen i'd say he is the scariest though.

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I don't think his mix up is easier to block at all, but if you do block it, unlike Bang and Carl, the pressure stops, usually.

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I don't think his mix up is easier to block at all, but if you do block it, unlike Bang and Carl, the pressure stops, usually.

for ragna being primarily based on rush his mixup is shitastic

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uhh virtually nothing changed about his mixup from CT-CS except 2C being + on block, which is arguable whether or not it has much to do with mixup, oh and higher meter gain for setting up that SO VERY FAST MID HIT

he's definitely not S tier from his mixup options.

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But seriously, there are a hundred arguments for either being "less thought based", but there's no way you're thinking harder than I am..

I'm just curious, has anyone ever been able to walk up to you and throw you?

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uhh virtually nothing changed about his mixup from CT-CS except 2C being + on block, which is arguable whether or not it has much to do with mixup, oh and higher meter gain for setting up that SO VERY FAST MID HIT

he's definitely not S tier from his mixup options.

I'm agreeing with this. Ragna's mixup isn't bad by any stretch, but it isn't great either. Ragna get's most of his damage by forcing you to take a risk to get away. Ragna is S tier for alot of reasons, but mix-up isn't one of them, it's the same as it was in CT, helped along a little bit by his crazy meter gain.

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Ragna's a pressure guy, not a mixup guy; he can pressure you all day, why use mixup? your opponent is in more of a hurry to get out, if you get inpatient GH>RC (because you have the heat) or 6B>3C will work and keep the enemy scared... he doesn't need to have great mixup to kill them, he'll catch you when you try to escape.... though quite a few of his moves are unsafe, and keeping that pressure is tough....

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You know.

Mixups are a way to maintain pressure.

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You know.

Mixups are a way to maintain pressure.

I heard there are characters with great pressure but shitty mixup, and shitty pressure with great mixup

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unless, they are fake holes, and you get punished for trying with...INFERNO DIVIDER lols

ragna is really good, he just dies fast and his mixup is easier to block then litchi bang and carl.

midscreen i'd say he is the scariest though.

I can IB backdash his pressure LOLZ.

also so far ladon is on the money so +1 for him.

dacibro is 5Aing the thread so -1 for him.

skye is being skye so he gets a skye point which is pretty moot when it comes to points.

also RCing to continue pressure that can be CA'd if your opponent has it can be a waste.

lastly I got +1 Axis point which is pretty awesome considering I am giving out these points.

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also RCing to continue pressure that can be CA'd if your opponent has it can be a waste.

This.

Oh, I love the feeling of blocking something > RC > something > RC > something, just to CA. Who needs sex when you can just make someone waste 100 meter? :eng101:

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This.

Oh, I love the feeling of blocking something > RC > something > RC > something, just to CA. Who needs sex when you can just make someone waste 100 meter? :eng101:

that statement reminds me of how EVERY single time I do 623D on my brother he bursts before the 2nd hit, it's obnoxious, makes me waste heat, and he still dies in in 2 more seconds.

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This.

Oh, I love the feeling of blocking something > RC > something > RC > something, just to CA. Who needs sex when you can just make someone waste 100 meter? :eng101:

Even more satisfying than this is CAing a Litchi that has you in the corner :)

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I don't think his mix up is easier to block at all, but if you do block it, unlike Bang and Carl, the pressure stops, usually.

His mix up would be easier to block for you if you just actually, you know, blocked. :I: You and I both know that you mash.

Ragna's mix up generally comes from forcing you into mistakes. His overhead is slow (TK GH is the only fast one, and it only comes from certain normals in his strings), and better players will generally see and break throw set ups/attempts. It's not like Ragna is putting you into a four way mix up where you have to guess block (see: Millia from GGAC, SFIV Viper mix ups, Magneto mix up).

Be patient and you'll get hit less by Ragna strings. Like Ladon said, Ragna is not S tier because of his mix up (which has largely remained the same from CT).

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Yeah, I definitely agree there. Bang, Litchi, and Carl don't have to take risks nearly at all for pressure. (Carl has to take risks elsewhere though, and taking hits badly doesn't help)

lol, you can't compare carl's pressure to litchi's and bang. Carl's entire offensive game has a lot of holes for the opponent to escape or counter. Most people don't realize this.

Sandwich pressure is not air tight like most people think it is. He has one of the best blockstring pressure, yes, but that's because of his complexity. When a carl has you in a blockstring he's most likely going to try and hit confirm with either IAD j.2C allecan crossup/ an unblockable/6C. You can jump out or counter hit him during all of these.

Most people choose to stay put cause if their jump out is baited with 8D, well..free combo, and carl's most damaging stuff are his aerial/juggle combos, so staying still and trying to block accordingly is not a bad idea.

Carl's entire game (trying to hit confirm in sandwich/corner pressure, resets) is full of holes. There's a lot of baiting and making your opponent commit to things. It's a guessing game for the opponent and carl himself. Except this guessing game favors both of you.

Carl gets opponent in a blockstring and attempts to hit confirm

Opponent guesses right, blocks accordingly but doesn't escape, good for them, but they are still in sandwich pressure. They guess right and escape, carl has to chase them down again. They guess right, counter hit, and a huge chunk of carl's life goes, but unlike other characters carl's life doesn't let you make many mistakes.

Carl guesses right/baits and counter hits, he starts a combo, which leads to a reset attempt. Carl guesses right on the reset attempt and he continues to drain their life.

Carl is high risk high reward. If his opponent guesses right and punishes, a huge chunk of carl's life is gone, but if carl guesses right, then a huge chunk of his opponent's life is gone as well.

This is not the same with bang and litchi. Their pressure is safe, and you dare not try and counter hit them unless you IB. Bang's pressure is safe, then you add his nails, and the fact that you have to deal with God's Fist (5A), etc. Litchi - full screen safe poking, counter hit litchi only to get counter hit by her staff and eat damage into corner rape, high meter gain, etc.

You cannot say the same about carl. Once you start fighting people who are looking for his j.2C crossup, trying to jump out of unblockable setups, CHing you out of 6C, you'll see how "safe" his game is.

I think what you meant to say dacid is that carls pressure is good because of his unpredictability. It can be hard to block him accordingly when he can cross you up with IAD j.2C off 2A/5A/5B, has unblockable setups, crossups with nirvana, can bait jump outs with 8D so you're almost forced to stay put at times, etc. Carl can link all of those into each other, so it can be hard to block accordingly. That's what makes his pressure good. His pressure is good because of the amount of stuff his opponent has to look out for, and not because it's safe.

Carl actually has one of the most unsafe playstyles, but this is remedied by his high damage if he guesses right. I guess it's because I'm a carl main so it's easy for me to see the holes in his game.

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