[CS] Jin vs Bang

[Nov Ganon]

ok im not coming here to cry about tiers we have tools so lets discuss how to stop bang whats some good pressure strings to look out for? when should we look for a possible overhead? should every air dash from bang get punished by a DP? lets discuss

[Dacidbro]

This thread should have existed a long time back, Bang is a huuuuuge problem for CS Jin. :d

I'll help out in a little bit, one minute. :]

[Dacidbro]

Stuff I posted for the Arakune's;

5A

-This move is hella fast/prioritized

-Combos to 3-4k

-Gatlings to just about anything

Highest Danger; Getting hit by it, Tick Grab, Gatling to low jabs or overhead

Summary; You aren't going to beat this move on reaction, and it will more often than not go through your jabs and pokes. I don't know enough about Jin to say what you should do about it, but if anyone has any suggestions I would be very appreciative. At a glance I would say if you're point blank with Bang this is most likely what's going to be on Bang's mind, so watch out.

On block, Bang will be looking for a couple things here;

Overhead

Low jab

Tick Grab

The problem for you is that these seamlessly flow together incredibly easily. If you're scared of the low jab, the tick grab and overhead are high threat. If you're scared of the tick grab, you may get blockstrung into a low or eat the airunblockable aspect of the overhead (!!! WAIT, His overhead is airunblockable?! Yeah guys, if you jump out of Bang's pressure, hold barrier or you're gonna eat a whole combo for nothing). Finally, if you're scared of the overhead, you're not blocking low for the non-reactable low jab and you're also not jumping out of the tick grab.

This is Bang's most vicious guessing game. Jin's B DP should be pretty good if you ever see him stop doing things, if he's close, because there should be a 5 frame gap between just about anything if he pauses, whether he already threw the overhead/long low, or was going to dash to reset the pressure. If you are confident in your reads/reaction time, you cooould counter super, but if bang throws 2A or 6A you eat shit for 50 meter..

2A

-Most of the same problems as above

-Has no jab it can gatling into

Summary; Similar dangers as 5A, It can gatling into tick grab, overhead, and even into itself, so you have the same sort of guessing game going on. However, unlike from 5A, you only have to worry about one low, if you successfully block the second low in a row the scariest part is over. Most commonly after a 2A, Bang will command grab, move to 5B or try to dash in and reset it to 5A.

5B

-Another fast poke

-Farther range than 5A

-Higher damage, but roughly half as fast

Summary; There's probably a couple things Jin can do about this one, it's significantly less dangerous overall. However, it's a great poke, so if you're just outside of 5A, this is going to be incoming. Thankfully for you, Bang can't gatling this to a low jab, so IF MAX RANGE, you can IB Counter Super if your inputs are sick shit, since at max range the only thing Bang can do to keep pressure is 5B 2B Dnails etc. Interrupt at 2B and you're golden. If close range, Bang likes to overhead or slow low, so super counter is liable to get you raped there. If close range, you can certainly reversal though, just careful for getting baited.

2B

-Long range poke

-Most commonly used as filler, because the only way to get any sort of pressure off of it is to use nails

Summary; This move has extremely little danger attached. The reason, here, is that it's CRAZY popular for Bang to jump cancel 2B and use Dnails. IS THERE ANY ALL ENCOMPASSING JIN ANSWER TO DNAILS?

2C

-Logical next step from 2B, but non-jump cancellable

-Much safer on block than it used to be, coupled with the fact it can gatling to 623B. If the Bang you play always 2C > 623B's, free as hell super counter with good fingers.

5C

-Overhead

-Usable from 5A, 2A, 5B

-Airunblockable

-Active above Bang faster than it's active in front of Bang, so for the love of god don't try to jump out of this TOWARDs him, Lol

-Jump cancellable on hit or block

Summary; Understand it, respect it, hate it, deal with it

A trick of my own is to Dnails off 5C, so don't ever let up your mental defense just because 5C landed or you blocked it, you might be right back in pressure.

6A

-Tricky low

-Usable from 5A, 2A, 5B, 5C

Summary; If you think you're really good at blocking the overhead, the Bang you're playing against probably hasn't been utilizing this correctly. This is the sub-move that makes 5C a lot more scary. It prorates A LOT better than 5C too, so respect it.

6B

-Tricky high

-Usable from 5A, 2A, 5C (IIRC)

-Most common use, double overhead from 5C

623C

-Command grab

-Very short range

-Fantastic conditioning tool

Summary; This makes your life suck. Really. To be able to use it, Bang has to dash in before his normals during a pressure string (Most accomplished by Dnails) and on wakeup situations on a neutral tech it's very high threat too. So, you see Bang dash in, you try to jump out, right? Well, if he's an intelligent bang, off of Dnails, he's going to go right to d5A > 2A, and if you stop right there you already got hit low for trying to jump out. A disciplined bang will take the 2k damage (2A prorates HORRIBLY, at least you have that going for ya) and put you back on wakeup until you respect the 2A, and THEN he will try to actually make the command grab hurt. So it's not as simple as just jumping out.

I dunno, reversal well?

Those are his most dangerous grounded aspects.

[BANGER]

Things I know so far:

-You can punish his fire punch through IB. Ragna can do simple 5B, I dunno about Jin. Maybe 5B or 2B, maybe 3C.

-Don't DP every air dash in, otherwise he'll bait it with a drive.

-I am not sure if his 2D can be punished by 5C > 6C. It obviously can on whiff though, so look for that from D-spam happy Bangs.

-I think jump barrier is the best option from defending against his D move if you got too far into his guard points.

-j.236D can be beaten out by mere shurikens. This sucks balls

-Don't do fireball zoning. He'll D teleport.

I'm not very successful at all in this matchup. All I'm doing so far is keeping them at bay with jC and looking for counter hits.

[DS-D]

in times like this i ask myself....what would buppa do? =P

[huey253]

j236D can easily be reacted to with daifunka, soo yea

[Dacidbro]

j236D can easily be reacted to with daifunka, soo yea

I wouldn't go that far.. You won't find many Bang opponents who actually try that, and even then most won't be successful. j236D is an important aspect of Jin's game, to tell them it can easily be reacted to by Bang's super is misleading and will cause them to be afraid of one of their more useful tools.

Now, in very rare circumstances, against incredibly bold opponents, Daifunka can go through j236D, if your opponent read you like a book.

[BANGER]

against incredibly bold opponents

Funny, I can imagine you doing it

Daifunka has full invincibility from projectiles right? Wouldn't the increased recovery from j.236D not be enough to block Daifunka in time? Most players would only j.236D from mid to close range, and that's very Daifunka-able to me.

[Dacidbro]

Funny, I can imagine you doing it

Daifunka has full invincibility from projectiles right? Wouldn't the increased recovery from j.236D not be enough to block Daifunka in time? Most players would only j.236D from mid to close range, and that's very Daifunka-able to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MX8utmQ9Bc#t=3m42s

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing it often, but if your fingers are quick enough and you can register what j236D looks like in time, it's not a bad call. Just really takes some really, really fast and accurate reaction time, and the spacing has to be right too.

The example shown is probably literally the very farthest you could possibly pull it off from; Daifunka only has about 24 frames of invulnerability.

[smooshman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MX8utmQ9Bc#t=3m42s

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing it often, but if your fingers are quick enough and you can register what j236D looks like in time, it's not a bad call. Just really takes some really, really fast and accurate reaction time, and the spacing has to be right too.

The example shown is probably literally the very farthest you could possibly pull it off from; Daifunka only has about 24 frames of invulnerability.

you say that like it's not that much, just look at carnage scissors....

[Dacidbro]

you say that like it's not that much, just look at carnage scissors....

It was more a "This will rarely work because of the limitations of Daifunka", not "man I wish my super was better"

[Joemomma5]

What usually works for me is to just rely on a JC CH, and come in with a 2A (fast and safe on guard point or block) for some pressure strings. Just be ready for a guard point! :D

I wouldn't recommend Dping every Airdash, remember, any mistake made will lead to his overpowered 5A and rape you a new one :'(

[Dacidbro]

With quick enough fingers and the right reaction time, you should be able to reaction A DP a forward air dash, if it's telegraphed enough.

Besides, that would be the way to PREVENT him from raping you with 5A.

[Joemomma5]

yeah definitely, I mean A Dp's work wonders..sometimes. But after a few of them I'm sure an experienced bang player will know how to counter/bait it. That's why I dont recommend A Dping "every air dash". But by all means, if you can react fast enough to an airdash with an ADP everytime, then go for it. I personally would fail, haven't had enough bang match up practice, my local arcade only has a few good Bang players. :/

[Yuushiro]

bangcamarro isn't good enough?

[Dacidbro]

Yeahhh, I think between me and BangCamaro you're fine dude.

[Joemomma5]

bangcamarro isn't good enough?

Nah he's good, but hes never at my local arcade. Pretty much only on tournie days. Other than that, theres maybe 2 other good Bangs, so my experience against him.. isn't so good. I would like to learn his block strings for IB's for punishing. I think that would help our game a lot.

[Yuushiro]

lol, I have 4 bangs at my place and none of them is bad...

It was hell , I could spend a lot of money just trying to win. And even after I get the win, I would most likely lose again.

my best bet is always putting bang in the corner and come up with a good oki...

always bait random wake up daifunka or the new super though. or the 2D... if you time it right I think you can get a fatal out of it.

[Joemomma5]

Yeah same here, the bangs that do come aren't bad at all. But they don't come often.

I usually try to trapping them in corners, and if i have meter i'll do occasional 6a and link with a Bdp or sekkajin for a decent amount of damage. But his air dashes can pretty much get him out of anything. then its pretty much square one from there. its an uphill fight for us, shoot, for EVERY character its an uphill fight. haha.

but you're right, our best bet is our corner game, after all. jin's still good at those.

[Yuushiro]

For my case they do come often, and they have all these nasty rapid -daifunka combo can lead up to 6-7k.

or from rapid command throw. I always hate those...

[Joemomma5]

haha, i hate how his 5A acts as an anti air. Jins most damaging combos come from random 6C's in corners, as well as at least 25 meter, where as the top 3 all you need is a 5B (or 5A, in Bangs case -_-') for 3k+ combos.

Thankfully Jin gets a good amount of heat, so i don't really have a problem with linking his DDp's into his corner combos, but still... D:

[Dacidbro]

aren't bad

[smooshman]

haha, i hate how his 5A acts as an anti air. Jins most damaging combos come from random 6C's in corners, as well as at least 25 meter, where as the top 3 all you need is a 5B (or 5A, in Bangs case -_-') for 3k+ combos.

Thankfully Jin gets a good amount of heat, so i don't really have a problem with linking his DDp's into his corner combos, but still... D:

not necessarily you can combo it from BDP just outside corner, but I get what your saying.... we have sweet conidtional combos that they can match anywhere...

[Joemomma5]

not necessarily you can combo it from BDP just outside corner, but I get what your saying.... we have sweet conidtional combos that they can match anywhere...

yeah 5c Bdp works well still. But for his most damaging combos in corners from a CH 6C or random hit 6C, we're going to need 50 meter right? thankfully each 6C 6D we do gets us like, 8 heat. So im definitely liking his corner combos. Using combos like his JC(CH)>2D>6B sekkajin combos will get other players in the corner fast, leading to our pressure games and slight* mix ups(i guess 2A>6A -_-, arksys give us 6B as an overhead!). i think thats the most efficient way of using CS Jin. I'm not too sure how you feel, but when i started CS, it was almost like playing a whole new character. oh i miss CT jB.

[Joemomma5]

I must be incredibly dense, Dacidbro.. are you the same blue bang that plays at AI? If you are then I've seen/played your bang and its great.