Pomparomp Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Basically, the combination of inputs "selects" the best option for whatever your opponent does. Acceptable ones just cover an extra base or two (sf4 crouch teching pokes out a delayed throw and techs an instant one, but can be punished by someone who baits it), bad ones leave you with no reason not to do them(yrc burst bait option select is the correct decision in 100% of situations that you can do it) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRD21 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Sorry to keep bothering but if there are any slayer players out there that wouldn't mind maybe friend requesting me to demonstrate on how to BDC and FDC with slayer correctly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GaijinMo Report post Posted February 7, 2015 You've been answered in two different threads already. Slayer's dashes can be cancelled into jumps. That's why you can do a dash, tap up, and then he stops doing the dash halfway through it and does a jump instead. Characters have start-up at the beginning of jumps where they bend their legs and prepare to lift off; you can cancel that short period of jump start-up into special moves or supers. BDC and FDC are just techniques derived from combining these two ideas into one command. The game sees it like this: dash → jump → special move. Seeing somebody else do it or watching a video isn't going to help, especially for BDC bite, which looks exactly like a regular bite. If you hear the sound of the dash and then the special move comes out, you're good. Try recording the dummy doing stun edge and attempt to BDC mappa through it. BDC (purpose: to transfer invincibility from the BD into a move) BDC Mappa: 442369P/K BDC Bite: 6321447H* BDC DOT: 63214469S BDC Dandy: 21447P/K* or 442147P/K (depending on when you want the invincibility to be active) Evidence that you did it right: dash noise (for all), very brief BD animation (for all except *) FDC (purpose: offense/forward movement) FDC Bite: 6632147H FDC Dandy: 662147P/K Evidence that you did it right: dash noise (for both), partial FD animation (for both) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRD21 Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Thanks man appreciate it, sorry for being a bother. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Admissionbaned Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Can somebody explain me this frame thing? And why frame delays matters? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kikuichimonji Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Can somebody explain me this frame thing? And why frame delays matters? A frame is a measurement of time 1/60th of a second long. 60 frames makes a second, just like 60 seconds make up a minute. That's it. Input lag is measured in frames because FG players use that time measurement a lot to measure move recovery, blockstun, etc. If there is input lag, that makes reaction you do effectively that much slower. For example, in 5 frames of lag, a 21 frame overhead feels like a 16 frame overhead because you have to block it early to compensate for the input lag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SnowMonkeyFunky Report post Posted February 7, 2015 How big is the window for inputting an IB? Do I want to input it immediately before a move hits like a Third Strike parry, or is there a good bit of leeway beforehand? When attempting to FD + IB, do I hold the FD input and tap IB, or do I need to input the FD and IB at the same time? IE: 4/1+P+K continue holding P+K and IB accordingly, or 4/1+P+K at every hit? How should I input FD jump/"1 frame jump" to get it consistent? Every time I practice it, when I input 7~P+K, I end up with backwards jump FD which means I'm not doing it properly, correct? Are there any good defensive OSes besides fuzzy jump that I should be aware of? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheRealBobMan Report post Posted February 7, 2015 The IB window is like... 4 frames I think? Everyone says different values for how wide the window is for a 3S parry, so I don't know how to compare them. I've read guides online that say it's 8 frames, and I've had people tell me it's 2 frames. I don't really play 3S, but when I'm derping around with it, the window feels WAY more lenient than 2f. It has to be at least 4f, though 8f sounds kinda easy, so I don't think it's that wide. Pretty sure you can't IB and FD at the same time in Guilty Gear (unless that changed in Xrd), which is something I actually really like. You have a clear use for both. IB reduces pushback whereas FD increases it. IB reduces blockstun whereas FD increases it. IB builds meter and raises pulse whereas FD spends meter and prorates meter gain. FD prevents chip damage and RISC+, but IB doesn't have any effect on those things. Before Xrd, Slashback was kind of the "do both" option. Reduced blockstun down to 2 frames, but more meter than you spend when you attempted it, made the pushback 0, prevented chip damage and GB+... it was really hard to do (2f window), but it was problematic because if you had the capability to SB everything (which isn't possible), it would be the right move to make any time you block anything. I liked that you could punish other players for being predictable during block strings or neutral, but didn't like that you didn't really have a reason not to use it, other than it being difficult to perform and high risk if you mess up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kikuichimonji Report post Posted February 7, 2015 Pretty sure you can't IB and FD at the same time in Guilty Gear (unless that changed in Xrd), which is something I actually really like. You have a clear use for both. IB reduces pushback whereas FD increases it. IB reduces blockstun whereas FD increases it. IB builds meter and raises pulse whereas FD spends meter and prorates meter gain. FD prevents chip damage and RISC+, but IB doesn't have any effect on those things. You can totally do both FD and IB. In the older games, it would basically work as a super FD, where you would push your opponent very far away. In Xrd, it just combines the qualities of IB and FD, so you get a lower blockstun and pushback than normal FD, but it's higher than IB would be. It's as useless as that sounds in most cases. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slavi Report post Posted February 15, 2015 Hi there guys, I have a question which I hope fits in this thread. So basically I saw this offer on the US PSN: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/02/13/flash-sale-is-live-valentine-deals-on-multiplayer-games/ I am from Europe so I naturally want to buy GGXrd from the US PS Store for PS4 since the EU release date is not even out yet. My question is: will my Digital version of GGXrd have limitation in terms of been locked just to my US PSN account(which obviously will be used just to buy the game)? I am asking this cause I have seen couple of digital games been locked just for a certain region. Subsequently, if this is the case I will have to buy a PS+ for my US account as well. Is this the case? Thanks in advance and have a nice day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted February 15, 2015 I'm European and I'm playing the digital US version just fine, go ahead and buy it. Just keep in mind that you should also buy any dlcs you want from the US account as well, since they are locked to the game's region Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyaa Report post Posted February 15, 2015 I'm in Europe and have the japanese release. No problems what so ever, except that I missed out on cool colors because why would I also get jap PSN+? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dosu Report post Posted February 15, 2015 The PSN+ colors said 'free' next to them yesterday for the valentines sale that's going on until the 16th and I downloaded them and they work(I do not have PSN Plus) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HardSlash Report post Posted February 15, 2015 Can someone explain attack levels please? I know it has to do with how much hit stun they do right? Then why in the Ky frame data does slash and heavy slash versions of vapor thrust have the same attack level and do wildly different amounts of stun? I'm obviously missing something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hollysmoke Report post Posted February 15, 2015 Can someone explain attack levels please? I know it has to do with how much hit stun they do right? Then why in the Ky frame data does slash and heavy slash versions of vapor thrust have the same attack level and do wildly different amounts of stun?I'm obviously missing something.Attack level refers to hit stun (when you hit the opponent, they can't do anything for X amount of frames), and it changes depending on CH, stance and block. I tested it and it's the same for both versions of VT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daymendou Report post Posted February 15, 2015 There isn't always a relationship with damage or button strength. The different amounts of stun you're referring to is Air Untechable Time. Moves have a base Air Untechable Time based on attack level but some moves are given a special bonus to untechable time. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any resource to get an exact amount for the move-specific bonuses As far as I know attack level doesn't influence clashes. I think if two non-projectile hitboxes overlap without any hurtboxes intersecting them, you get a clash. I could be wrong though. I looked into it and couldn't find anything either. Must have confused myself, sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HardSlash Report post Posted February 15, 2015 Ah OK, the air untech time explanation is what I was looking for. Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheRealBobMan Report post Posted February 15, 2015 For any specifics, just reference the wiki. Attack level does a great job of standardizing the properties of moves. For normals you can determine hit stun and block stun (also accounting for IB, FD, air IB and FD, Counter Hits, hit-stop, crouching hit, etc), RISC scaling, and meter gain. There are few exceptions (like Ram not building meter with non-sword normals or RoboKy's meter gain). Basically, unless the move has been given a specific property (which should be listed in the wiki, but we don't have a Mook yet so it isn't all listed), it will fall into the same values as every other move. The differences are in the animations (startup, active, recovery). Special moves are less standardized. They have unique properties all over the place, but attack level is still a good general template for their information. Meter gain is the most likely to not fit (special moves give meter on use AND on hit/block, so they have different values automatically). In AC/+R it was also common for projectiles to not build RISC at all. Vapor Thrust is a special move, so the differences in hit stun are just the properties of the move and are not explained by the attack level. I feel like we need a short article explaining this stuff. Most people know how to reference the frame data chart for the basics (start up time and static difference), but have no idea what any of the rest means. As far as I know attack level doesn't influence clashes. I think if two non-projectile hitboxes overlap without any hurtboxes intersecting them, you get a clash. I could be wrong though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SynikaL Report post Posted February 16, 2015 For any specifics, just reference the wiki. Attack level does a great job of standardizing the properties of moves. For normals you can determine hit stun and block stun (also accounting for IB, FD, air IB and FD, Counter Hits, hit-stop, crouching hit, etc), RISC scaling, and meter gain. There are few exceptions (like Ram not building meter with non-sword normals or RoboKy's meter gain). Basically, unless the move has been given a specific property (which should be listed in the wiki, but we don't have a Mook yet so it isn't all listed), it will fall into the same values as every other move. The differences are in the animations (startup, active, recovery). Special moves are less standardized. They have unique properties all over the place, but attack level is still a good general template for their information. Meter gain is the most likely to not fit (special moves give meter on use AND on hit/block, so they have different values automatically). In AC/+R it was also common for projectiles to not build RISC at all. Vapor Thrust is a special move, so the differences in hit stun are just the properties of the move and are not explained by the attack level. I feel like we need a short article explaining this stuff. Most people know how to reference the frame data chart for the basics (start up time and static difference), but have no idea what any of the rest means. As far as I know attack level doesn't influence clashes. I think if two non-projectile hitboxes overlap without any hurtboxes intersecting them, you get a clash. I could be wrong though. Attack Levels are still obtuse to me because the standardized hitstun/blockstun never seems to sync up with the move's static difference from my understanding of it. If a move's Attack Level is 0, and it has 9 frames blockstun, how would you deduce its static difference being +1 from knowing its Attack Level alone? -Kimosabae Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kikuichimonji Report post Posted February 16, 2015 Attack Levels are still obtuse to me because the standardized hitstun/blockstun never seems to sync up with the move's static difference from my understanding of it. If a move's Attack Level is 0, and it has 9 frames blockstun, how would you deduce its static difference being +1 from knowing its Attack Level alone? -Kimosabae You can't know its static difference just by knowing its attack level. You would also need to know the number of active and recovery frames. The static difference formula would be: blockstun - (active - 1) - recovery = static difference The 1 is because you've already gone through the first active frame of the attack to actually hit them. The Attack Level system is most beneficial for the defender, because there are basically only five different lengths of blockstun in all of Guilty Gear, which makes knowing when you've recovered feel intuitive after a while. However, having the amount of hitstun on a move readily available via Attack Level does make figuring out what combos in a gatling a lot easier to deduce. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheRealBobMan Report post Posted February 16, 2015 You can't. The way the move is set up (when does it go active, how long it's active, and how much recovery it has) is necessary to determine static difference with attack level. If the move's active frames (-1 for the frame that actually connected and made them block) and recovery frames add up to 8, you'll have a static difference of +1. IE Ky's 5P. 4 active frames, 5 recovery frames. If you hit on the first possible frame, there's 3 active frames and 5 recovery frames to sit through before you can move again. This is also why you can hit late with moves to create additional frame advantage or gain some where you wouldn't normally have it. May's 5K is -3 on block, but active for 6 frames. If used meaty on oki to bait a throw (not sure if it still does this in Xrd, but it was something you did in AC/+R because it was throw invul) you could make it + on block and use that to tick throw or frame trap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted February 16, 2015 http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Using_Frame_Data Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SynikaL Report post Posted February 16, 2015 Thanks a lot, guys. I wasn't accounting for the impact frame, now I understand much better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HardSlash Report post Posted February 16, 2015 And now I understand attack levels a bit better, like it's safe to assume that though hs vapor thrust has specific differences to the slash version on hit, they both automatically cause the same amount of stun on block due to their levels being the same. Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kikuichimonji Report post Posted February 16, 2015 May's 5K is -3 on block, but active for 6 frames. If used meaty on oki to bait a throw (not sure if it still does this in Xrd, but it was something you did in AC/+R because it was throw invul) you could make it + on block and use that to tick throw or frame trap. May's 5K is no longer throw invulnerable in Xrd, only low invulnerable. You can use meaty 6K overhead to do the same thing and combo off 6K if it's meaty, but it's much slower than 5K was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites