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Blade

The Art of Mixup and Increasing Pressure

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What is going on here. :vbang:

Highs are overheads. You have to block standing.

Lows have to be blocked low.

Mids are just attacks that can be blocked any way you want.

I agree with this.

Using 3D fighter high/mid/low classes only makes sense in, y'know, 3D fighters, just as 2D fighters have a pretty simple way of determining high/mid/low classes that makes sense only in 2D fighters...

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I think the misleading notion in 2D fighters is that stuff that looks like a low or an overhead (Jin's 2A/6B) can be blocked high OR low, and most people instinctively block low because they think it IS a low, and then when you get hit with an overhead you're like..."what happened?"

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In 2D fighters, highs (aka overheads) need to be blocked standing, lows need to be blocked crouching, and mids can be blocked however you want. That makes the most sense so that's the terminology we'll use, k? Talking like mids can't be blocked crouching makes this sound like Soul Calibur. And if you're looking at the frame data on the site, H and L under "Guard" mean High and Low as described here. If you think you can block attacks with H crouching, you'll get hit in the face a lot.

Also, people were talking about invulnerability earlier, and certain moves being invulnerable to high or low or whatever. Some moves have high or low guard point, or high or low auto-counter properties, but if something is invulnerable to certain other moves, that has to do with attribute, not how it hits. Tager's 2C, for example, has some head attribute invulnerability. That doesn't mean it's invulnerable to high attacks, it means it's invulnerable to attacks that only have Head attribute.

For example, Tager's 6B hits high, but has Head/Body/Foot attribute, so Tager's 2C is vulnerable to it.

Meanwhile, Carl's j.2C hits mid and thus can be blocked standing or crouching, but has only Head attribute and thus Tager's 2C is invulnerable to it (on certain frames).

Most air attacks hit high and have only Head attribute. On the other hand, most ground overheads have Head/Body attribute or something similar rather than only Head. However, there are exceptions in each case.

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well dindragmire just runs away and spams so you cant really pressure him, thats why you probally did really bad, in his case just jump in on him alot like your going to hit him and he'll JD like any other scrub haku and just punish that, and jump in-grabs work alot on scrubby hakumen too

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BTW: Don't get so focused on high / low mixups. In BlazBlue, outside of certain situations... the high/low mixup game is slow enough that good players can react to it. Personally, I focus on the strike-strike mixup in BlazBlue. Of course, Noel Vermillion has a terrible high/low game, so I guess its more like I'm forced into the strike-strike mixup.

It goes like this:

Find a block loop. For example, 2A 2A -> 66 -> 2A 2A -> 66 -> 2A 2A is fairly universal in this game. This isn't safe, this is just a starting point. If your opponent blocks, you "tie" with your opponent. IE: your loop continues and this can go on as long as your opponent continues to block. For me, Noel's block loop is 5A 5A -> 665A 5A -> 665A 5A -> etc. etc.

The whole point of a block loop is to invite your opponent to push buttons. Its not safe, but nothing is safe.

Under this situation, your opponent has the following options:

1. Jump Escape

2. Backdash

3. Spam Jabs / Throws / Slower Invincibility

4. Spam Dragon Punch / Supers / Instant Invincibility

5. Block

6. Barrier Block

7. Instant-block

These options are beaten by:

1. Solid Blockstring Lows (if your opponent holds up, he isn't holding down. IE: he's blocking high), or 2-frametrap (vs Arakune / Litchi) or 3-frametraps (vs everyone else) or 5-frametraps (vs Tager). Also, IAD -> Airgrab works.

2. Meaty attacks or Multi-hits. For example, Noel's 6C. Be sure you can hitconfirm this, most opponents are airborne if hit while backdashing.

3. Frametrap into a counter-hit. For example, Noel's 2A -> 5C is a good frametrap in CS1.

4. Block then punish

5. Continue your loop

6. Continue your loop, modified such that you can keep the pressure vs Barrier Guards.

7. Switch up your rhythm slightly. Because your opponent isn't in blockstun, he'll probably backdash instead of instantblock. Then, you can punish the backdash.

IMO, THIS is the primary mixup game in Blazblue that I usually play. In addition, you throw in high/low/throw mixups, but it is only effective AFTER you master strike-strike mixup. At least, for all characters with a dash. Hakumen doesn't have a loop that I know of, so all of his strike-strike mixup options are much shorter, and don't involve any loops.

Afterall, your opponent isn't going to block unless he is forced to block. You need to learn to punish your opponent's escape attempts. First, force your opponent to block. That is to say, make his safest option to block. Once blocking is his safest option, THEN start throwing in the mixup attempts.

Edited by dragontamer

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the high/low mixup game is slow enough that good players can react to it

This being the caveat. :(

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Smart Stuff

That was really informative and a good read. Thank you!

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Well said dragontamer. I always figured block loops had to be long and fancy looking (oh Melty <3), but they do not, and what you said makes a lot of sense, at least to me. In bb I thought blockstrings were about how fast you can make your overheads look ( its a Rachel thing, lol), not about safety; but I learned something new I suppose. Hopefully this will improve my game as a whole.

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I have something of a releated question, though it's more defense-oriented.

What's the best way to handle mixups you've never seen before? In a lot of instances I come across mess from high level players that I'm not used to in the least and I end up doing jump-blocking to deal with certain overheads or do barrier only to get thrown or airthrown over and over.

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If you're getting air thrown over and over then you're being waaaaaaaaay too predictable about your chicken blocking. Spend more time on the ground and option select their ground throws.

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Mixup in BB isn't that good on the whole, so it really becomes a game of conditioning.

Many people view mixup in very simple terms. They think "Mixup is designed to make the opponent guess how to block," but this includes an element of luck that should not be in there. Another view is, "Mixup is attacking high when they're blocking low" but this assumes the opponent won't be able to react. A better statement would be, "Mixup is attacking high when the opponent WANTS to block low".

It would take alot more typing to explain that further, but in simple terms, you have to be conditioning your opponent in such a way that you can open him up. Also, pay attention to their habits.

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Mixup is not just about throwing low/high/grab stuff.

Imo, a mixup is a situation where the opponent is forced to guess what to do and how to block, because It is way too fast to reactly properly.Like Litchi's Kokuushi Musou/Daisharin and Carl's sandwiches.

This is much more evident in SF4,for example, where you cant exactly react to Abel's c.HK Overhead or block high with the chance of getting caught by Tornado Throw.

Dont know much about GG, but Millia's oki and mixup seems very fast so that you dont have a choice but to guess where to block.

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lol, mixups? millia has fucking unblockables. l think you need to witness the amount of salt her mixups can generate, its unreal

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Wow, thank you DT, that explains so well what I've been working on but hadn't really bothered to conceptualize.

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I have something of a releated question, though it's more defense-oriented.

What's the best way to handle mixups you've never seen before? In a lot of instances I come across mess from high level players that I'm not used to in the least and I end up doing jump-blocking to deal with certain overheads or do barrier only to get thrown or airthrown over and over.

The easiest way is to see the grab, react, and then throw-break. If your opponent's only way of breaking chicken blocking is by air-grabbing you, then react to the giant green exclamation mark and escape. Its hard to do online however, but offline, there's plenty of time to react.

Mixup in BB isn't that good on the whole, so it really becomes a game of conditioning.

Many people view mixup in very simple terms. They think "Mixup is designed to make the opponent guess how to block," but this includes an element of luck that should not be in there. Another view is, "Mixup is attacking high when they're blocking low" but this assumes the opponent won't be able to react. A better statement would be, "Mixup is attacking high when the opponent WANTS to block low".

It would take alot more typing to explain that further, but in simple terms, you have to be conditioning your opponent in such a way that you can open him up. Also, pay attention to their habits.

I somewhat agree. Conditioning is absolutely essential in this game. However, conditioning purely on high/low mixups is near impossible, because good players can just react.

Your opponent becomes easier to condition the more and more mixups you throw at him. High/low mixup is quite passive, your opponent can just watch the screen and use only his left hand. However, start using throws, and now your opponent has to sometimes react with his right hand as well (ie: react with throw-break).

If your opponent is watching out for throws, he'll be less likely to block the high/low mixup correctly. If he's watching out for high/low mixups, it will be harder to tech out of throws.

Of course, there are then the opponents who can do both pretty well. Which goes into strike-strike mixups. After throwing out your low, dash back in and attempt to "loop" into a renewed mixup attempt. IMO, spending 50% heat to rapid is well worth it, especially if you spend it on something normally unsafe. Ex: Ragna's goes into 2A -> 6B / 2B mixup gets blocked, so he continues to 5C 623C Rapid 66 2A as a blockstring. The 623C Rapid 2A serves as a strike-strike mixup that conditions your opponent to not punish your Inferno Dividers. Furthermore, even if your opponent blocks it, you have a 662A, allowing another renewed 2A -> 6B/2B mixup attempt.

Its not about throwing one mixup at your opponent, you need to throw ALL mixups at them at the same time. Strike/Strike, Throw/Block, and High/Low get more and more effective if you simultaniously throw them out. And under these conditions, you've hopefully overwhelmed your opponent's reactions, which opens them up to conditioning.

Finally, the slowest mixup of them all... Guard Breaks... become useful at this stage. Most characters can throw a guard-break attack with massive +frames but poor startup. Ex. Jin's 6D or Ragna's Dead Spike have good +Frames, renewing your mixup pressure while also chipping away at the guard primers. Use these to condition your opponent's right hand into pushing buttons.

Edited by dragontamer

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What also comes with conditioning is making the other player respect you as a threat; in other words, making them fear getting hit. This is what i think is primarily the cause of why conditioning works so well. If a player realizes that they cant make small mistakes without taking decent damage, then they're going to try alot less risky shit against you. Likewise, when you ATTACK them, their focus is going to be on making sure they do not get hit with the move you want them to be hit by. This can work to the advantage and disadvantage of both players, but it really depends on who is doing the most to get something out of it.

Pressure goes both ways, both from an offensive and defensive standpoint. For instance: Some Noel's love to practice and use lots of drive moves in a blockstring...but the moment they're grabbed / DP'd out of one, they're going to stop doing it REAL fast. You've just removed an option from them, and thus have applied pressure. Hakumen players who love to j.2C you to death stop doing it so much once they play a ragna who knows what a 6A is. If 2 players are fighting, and one is more effective at blocking the others attacks than the other one, then pressure is also being applied to the one trying to do the pressuring. However, each successful poke changes the balance of this.

It's really all about scaring your opponent and conditioning them to fear certian aspects of you, and then using that to your advantage.

Playing Blazblue has made me view other fighting games from a different perspective. I used to ignore Tekken games until I came across Tekken 6 and found out how surprisingly deep the fights can be in that game. And the character i picked up (Lili) basically lives and breathes conditioning when you're fighting anyone who knows how to actually block.

And about BB Guard Breaks....they really can turn a match around for you. When i use Ragna, i've tricked so many people into last-minute Guard Breaks using Hells Fang and the last of my meter to RC them in succession. Im going to actually experiment with adding them into my gameplay more once PSN gets back up.

Edited by Remius

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unless you're tager

Honestly, i never really go for guard breaks on purpose unless we're at the end of the round and i notice his primers are in the red, or close to the red. Most people instinctively block, and dont pay much attention to primers anyway (especially when bursting), so it's a good way to have them block a move and then get a break.

Although barrier block pretty much destroys all of that shit. Which is why i just leave the whole mechanic alone.

Edited by Remius

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Just try to barrier block someone actively attempting to guard break you in good pressure.

If you don't get the fuck out you're gonna be saaaaaaaaaad.

And once they start barrier-ing, it's still effective. Once they have to barrier to keep you out, they have a visible time limit on how long they can hold downback until they get fucking raped for it (danger+guard break=sad panda).

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Just try to barrier block someone actively attempting to guard break you in good pressure.

If you don't get the fuck out you're gonna be saaaaaaaaaad.

And once they start barrier-ing, it's still effective. Once they have to barrier to keep you out, they have a visible time limit on how long they can hold downback until they get fucking raped for it (danger+guard break=sad panda).

Yeah, but unfortunally when the conditions are prime we're usually a single combo away from death anyway. All Danger state lets me do is poke them to death at that point : /

Anywhere else though, Danger most definitely helps your combo kill someone. If Guard Break caused Danger State alone, i think Rachel could be somewhat decent on this game...just speculating though. I think shes pretty good at it. Then again, Lambda would be even MORE annoying...

Edited by Remius

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a good rachel is very good at causing both danger and gc states. her pressure is incredibly safe and some attacks are specifically for eating barrier guard alive such as 3[c] and 6c. she still has 5 primer blockstrings as well, but as a whole gc got alot slower since the introduction of primers, so theyre not very often used anymore. better off trying to force danger state, because if she can, she pretty much won that round. (this applies to everyone but rachel excels in the mixup department)

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Guard breaking really isn't that hard against someone once they burst (with, of course, the exception of Tager, who is better off after 2 bursts than most characters are after 1.). Barrier helps a little, but to do so intelligently adds another thing someone needs to keep in mind. If someone is spamming barrier throughout the whole match, they likely won't have enough to stave off persistant guard break attempts, and if they're NOT using barrier constantly, they need to keep tabs on their primers and remember to barrier primer breaking attacks when they hit 1 primer... which is just another thing they have to keep their mind on. Not precisely a "mixup", but by splitting their attention this way, you reduce the chances of their avoiding your "traditional" mixup.

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