[CS1] Mu-12 General Discussion Thread

[Klazzix]

Technically, it isn't always possible, but 99% time it is.

You need to buffer the 2B input into the super. So it would look like this 632B146C.

On males minus Hazama, Bang, (and valk too I believe) you can do 2B>5B>632146C which does a smidge more damage and is much easier.

Ahh, thanks for the quick response Ve! 99% is actually a pretty high success rate sooo.. I'm probably just not doing my inputs fast enough.

[FlyingVe]

I was being a bit facetious. But yeah, you should be able to tac a super on most all the time.

[Innolis]

Characters where we win the neutral game:

Tager, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Valkenhayne,

Characters where we lose the neutral:

Hazama, Hakumen, Taokaka, Litchi, Bang, Jin, Makoto

Characters we go even with in neutral:

Noel, Tsubaki, Ragna, Lambda

I could be way off base or forgetting something, so I want to know what everybody thinks. This is really important for Mu's game, i feel.

I mostly agree with this. Only thing is:

I think we're somewhat tied with valk, and (for what I understand of "normal" play) I believe lambda is better. Finally I would say that we're at least even with makoto.

Ahh, thanks for the quick response Ve! 99% is actually a pretty high success rate sooo.. I'm probably just not doing my inputs fast enough.

In all honesty, the link can be done 100% of the time, its a matter of when it can be done. Be mindfull of proration in the combo, know the number of reps in wichever loop you're doing before the oponent gets to tech out.

[FlyingVe]

I mostly agree with this. Only thing is:

I think we're somewhat tied with valk, and (for what I understand of "normal" play) I believe lambda is better. Finally I would say that we're at least even with makoto.

Well, you could be right on both, I had a hard time ranking them. To be honest, my valk exp is a bit limited, but between lasers and jC,j2C,2C I never felt like Valk had a good way to do his thing. This is different than Ragna (or whoever), because he can't block as a wolf. His glide throw is his best tool, and it can be dealt with. Now if he does get it... hoo boy... we die.

Maktoto is a little similar, but she has more effective tools (against mu) tools. Makoto has no range but she has alot of gimmicky guesswork type approaches. So effectively, both characters have to do quite a bit of guesswork, however, the reward for makoto guessing right once is practically round over, whereas Mu guessing right is no where near as scary. So, if the match has three guesses (hypothetically) we guess right all three times we might win, she guesses right once, she does wins. Once again, once this character gets in, we die. Why? because CS1 is dumb like that.

[TD]

Let's not forget makoto's 2a. It pretty much beats everything mu has besides a psychic 2a of our own. At the right range, 2a alone will keep mu blocking for a long time, and she can't really afford to mash out or make mistakes. I find mu's zoning to be pretty mediocre against her too. Makoto is just too fast and, as mentioned, her guesswork can be an extreme hassle (many of her tools have properties that can get under many of mu's normal and specials). So, imo, makoto definitely wins the neutral game.

[Aginor]

puttin me on blast ._.

with how annoyingly slow mu's normals are, l feel like one should be prepared to block a LOT, even with her clashy dp. steins dont really 'protect' mu at all, so essentially setting them outside of fullscreen in quite a few matchups will que an opponent to do what they do.

*snip*

People always block a lot in this game. It's been about who has a good punish after an IB and get the IB punish. If you don't want to block a lot, push buttons and deal lots of damage then maybe you should use another character. And well....there's the ground game in BB as well so if you throw out an AA and your opponent runs in and spaces their footsie move then well....sucks to be you. : |

This is reminding me of Tager General with all the salt, I wish Mu didn't have such easily punished when whiffed moves...5C and 6C I'm staring at you <_<

If you don't want easily punished when whiffed moves, go play bang and spam 5a and 5b. Confirm into combo. Whiffing moves is very dangerous and shouldn't happen. IMO 6c is not really a spacing move. I see it as more of a punishing a whiffed move with a lot of recovery. e.g. a whiffed DP. 5c well...you can't just throw it out there randomly hoping your opponent will run into it.

Trying to learn Mu, so quick question:

Is it always possible to connect 632146C after a 2B? It seems I can't get it to work on some of the longer combos I'm trying to do where I could still get the 2B to hit.

Please check the FAQ before asking questions like these. I made that thread for a reason. : |

Lastly, as for neutral game stuff I'd disagree with a few of the placements of characters.

Characters where we win the neutral game:

Tager, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Valkenhayne, Tsubaki

Characters where we lose the neutral:

Hazama, Hakumen, Taokaka, Litchi, Bang, Makoto

Characters we go even with in neutral:

Ragna, Lambda, Jin, Noel

[FlyingVe]

I can see why you moved the characters you did, but maybe you could be a little more specific. I had tsubaki at even mostly because she has a good poke in 5B and her 2C stops jC stuff clean. Plus between her foot-speed and D-charging star she makes it very hard to get away from her.

Jin on the other hand, well, his jC beats ours (this really sucks) and he can use Ice car to punish runaway and fullscreen steins. All of this in addition to his very deep toolbox.

So I'm curious as to what you think. Later today I might type up a more comprehensive list for discussion. I'm not pretending to be correct on any of this.

Edit: by comprehensive, I mean with explanations. That way everybody can see where I'm wrong.

[Aginor]

You're giving Tsubaki's 5b too much credit. That move has an extended hitbox so the tip of her wing is also her vulnerable hitbox. With Tsubaki's 5b, she can't go into any combo if she uses it at max range except maybe on CH but I'm pretty sure she can't. 5c has WAYYYYY more range than her 5b. Don't see that happening. 2c is like one of her best moves. Don't screw around with it. For one thing, I don't think Mu should be approaching her through air unless you have her in 236d/214d blockstun. As for charging star that's if she can even get charge in the first place. If you play mid-range at like outside tsubaki's range, she shouldn't really be able to do much. You can zone from full screen and pretty much do whatever. If tsubaki doesn't have like 2-3 charge, she can't do damage and she can't get out of any tight pressure seeing as her DPs are just unreliable except for D DP. Unless you count being hit for 1600 a lot of damage.

As for jin, even though his j.c may beat ours, our 5c beats his. If jin starts using ice cars to punish steins then bait it out/be patient. And as for jin, there's a lot of things Mu can do to him as well. Close up air game with jin in neutral is pretty iffy because his j.a is good but mu has j.a and a REALLY good air throw. But general thing about jin was that, he's never really been excelling with one thing or another but then again he's not bad at anything. He's just a solid character that has all the tools to win/jack of all trades. I think jin and mu go even neutral to neutral but I think in this match it's about capitalizing on what the other character doesn't have. Like with jin, I feel he's more pressure/neutral game and Mu is more zoning/neutral/oki.

[FlyingVe]

Everything you say about Tsubaki is true, but I think she can reliably get at least on stock, and that her 5B is still pretty solid. If she tries to run away to build charge you have to chase after he to stop it. This puts you at a risk of getting 5B/2C'd (or otherwise coming to her) and if you try to back off and set-up you're conceding the charge bar and risking charging stars. What you said about her 5B is true, and while our 5C out ranges it, her 5B is way faster, so she can dash in at tag you. Also, her 5B is just barely fast enough to punish SoD(lvl1) most times. You're right, she doesn't get shit for landing it, but she does get in, and that counts for something. Don't get me wrong we definitely win this matchup regardless, because, well, Tsubaki kinda sucks.

I think your spot on with jin tools, but I have to disagree on how effective his options can be. I wouldn't underestimate D-IceCar, that sucker is fast, and can really mess up zoning on reaction. Plus if you're near the corner, you lose a ton of health. The fact that his jC is so good, makes it really hard to even get in position to threaten with your air throw or what have you. Also, jin's 2A is a remarkable good AA for Mu's aerial attacks. I think we lose to jin in neutral, not anywhere near as badly as some of the others, but still a distinct disadvantage. What other things can we do to jin more so than the other characters that beat us in neutral?

[TD]

@ ve, why chase tsubaki? if she's setting up, break her primers.

[FlyingVe]

That's what I mean, if you decide not to chase her, then she's gonna get bar for charging stars. It's kinda a lose/lose.

Once again, Mu does win this matchup.

[TD]

with her crap pressure you really only need to worry about d charge. if she wants charge, by goodness let her have it!

she's just not threatening. ever. (well, maybe online :D ) now if mu was rachel... i'd be scared of her charging. but then i'd be scared of everything lol.

[TD]

l've found 6a to be such a universal option select move to play footsies with. it only has 9 frames of startup (one more than ragna's 5b), air unblockable, leaves ground options open, and due to it's hitbox it hits crouchers. range is also decent.

l was playing the noel matchup, and 6a stops her jumps, AND her 2d! l definitely need to add this into the matchup.

NO MOAR GUESSWORK!? only practice will tell...

[Zeromus_X]

I've also found some success using 6A like that. You can still get hit out of bigger pokes or people running all up into you of course, but overall it's pretty low risk.

[FlyingVe]

You just push yourself out of range to use it pretty quick.

[Klazzix]

In all honesty, the link can be done 100% of the time, its a matter of when it can be done. Be mindfull of proration in the combo, know the number of reps in wichever loop you're doing before the oponent gets to tech out.

Thanks for this. My orignal question wasn't really in that FAQ and it's not like I didn't know how to do 63B2146C. I found out for myself that I just have to omit 1 or 2 2Cs in certain loops to make it easier to connect a super from 2B.

[StarryShade]

If you don't want easily punished when whiffed moves, go play bang and spam 5a and 5b. Confirm into combo. Whiffing moves is very dangerous and shouldn't happen. IMO 6c is not really a spacing move. I see it as more of a punishing a whiffed move with a lot of recovery. e.g. a whiffed DP. 5c well...you can't just throw it out there randomly hoping your opponent will run into it.

Thing is, I'm not using it as a spacing move, I'm using it mid-block string thinking it will hit the opponent and then it doesn't. I play a CS2 Mu in CS1 more or less, I never use 3C really because it's so damn easy to punish. I prefer to get a hit into 6C or just knock away with Furu no Tsurugi and then set up steins. But I've never played seriously anyways...and I play Jin so I don't really mind it too much...it's just Mu's best ground spacing tool has ridiculous recovery lol.

[FlyingVe]

To put it bluntly, it sounds like you need to work on your hit-confirming. You gotta have good hit-confrim with Mu or you'll either be passing up alot of damage, or throwing radically unsafe stuff out there for no reason.

[StarryShade]

Well seeing as I can somewhat play Jin. Who probably needs the best hitconfirm in the game, Hitconfirm probably isn't my issue. It's more autopilot/me assuming.

[zreb]

Assuming isn't hit confirming, so claiming to have good hit confirm is kind of irrelevant. Could just learn something that will actually not whiff if you're going to play like that instead of making strange claims about 6C.

[StarryShade]

Assuming isn't hit confirming, so claiming to have good hit confirm is kind of irrelevant. Could just learn something that will actually not whiff if you're going to play like that instead of making strange claims about 6C.

Re-read what I said.

[Innolis]

It looks like there's a great (new? does this work in CS1?) option select in CS2 that's great for punishing rolls and baiting reversals, which is what we're seeing in the above video:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/single/?p=581975&t=4032106

I took this out of the Video Thread, but I think this is the right place to ask about it.

What exactly is....this?, I understand the concept behind it, but not how to actually do it.

Any thoughts?

[FlyingVe]

I know what it is, but it isn't relevant in CS1 (it'll work but not achieve anything). We'll deal with it when CS2 comes around, until then I wouldn't worry about it. Mu and Makoto can both abuse the hell out of it in CS2

I'll probably do some more set-up and tactics vids that will include the right times to abuse it and so forth.

[Innolis]

Mu can abuse something?? cs2 cant come soon enough!

[FlyingVe]

Yeah, I'll do a full write-up and stuff when the time comes, but right now, it's something we can only dream of.