[CS1-CSE] Tsubaki Self-Improvement and Critique Thread

[Adelheid]

I miss IADs off of CH 22A

Haha, it doesn't work anymore? I couldn't for the life of me figure why I'd been dropping them!

[LunarSelenia]

I miss IADs off of CH 22A

ME TOO O___o;;; I really miss that. I can confirm 22A CH > 5A > 5C > 2C > air combo but it's not as satisfying as landing that IAD into the corner like in CS2 :3

[Airk]

ME TOO O___o;;; I really miss that. I can confirm 22A CH > 5A > 5C > 2C > air combo but it's not as satisfying as landing that IAD into the corner like in CS2 :3

This raises an interesting point now, actually - I don't think it's worth starting rounds with 22A anymore; The reward on normal hit is total garbage, the reward on CH has gone down a lot, and the potential loss if someone holds 9 at the start of the round and hits you with a CH jump in when you whiff your 22A is just as ugly as it always was.

I don't think starting rounds with 22A is a smart move except maybe very rarely. It seems like the only really good options now are to run away and charge (against aggressive characters) or to immediately attempt to apply pressure (against zoning type characters.). Starting the round with 22A or 214B (which used to have some value as well) no longer seems worth pursuing.

[pktazn]

The reward isn't as good but I think it's still pretty useful since it can usually stop anyone who's trying to do something similar to you from starting position considering it still comes out pretty fast. It's definitely not a good idea to start every round with it, usually they catch on after the first time while others try again, but it's still good for catching someone who usually tries to attack from the start.

[Shruikon]

I agree with PK but then this discussion probably isn't suited for this topic.

[Shruikon]

GGs to Kiba.

Man. I need to stop hesitating so much I think.

e.g. See I have stock to do a 1 charge combo > whilst thinking this I've already autopiloted into a 0 stock combo

e.g. When you're just testing my pressure and I realize this > know that I need to mix it up and do something else but just autopilot into 5CC cc over and over.

etc.

Definitely also a couple moments where I did something and then just thought 'why the hell did I just do that'.

Still, I was at least happy I took a round off your Valk >_>

Little depressed I left your Jin (who I didn't even know you played) at magic pixel and then lost twice in a row, though overall that match was actually really fun.

[Kiba]

It would help if you save the replays too since you can go back and be like 'oh yea I could do that there!' etc.

There were times where you left your 5CC hangin' and I'd just punish that. Also there were times you made me whiff my normals but you didn't punish them nor even try to get away. I think you scored a FC 3C on me twice, but you didn't followup. The most basic combo you can use is FC 3C > 2B > 2CC > IAD combo for good corner carry and decent damage. I think you should use more 2A/5As in you pressure too as it gives you some time as to what to followup with next. It also tells you whether your opponent is quite honest at blocking. I was jumping at the beginning of the round because I wanted to avoid 22A.

You managed to catch me with 3CC which I REALLY wasn't expecting, so good stuff there.

Other than Valk and Tsubaki, I play like half of the other characters but I'm not particularly good with any of them, heh. I was testing your MU exp with Jin. I wouldn't try to outpoke Jin after a 6B. It's +3 on block, and a followup 2A can catch CHs.

GGs.

[Shruikon]

It would help if you save the replays too since you can go back and be like 'oh yea I could do that there!' etc.

There were times where you left your 5CC hangin' and I'd just punish that. Also there were times you made me whiff my normals but you didn't punish them nor even try to get away. I think you scored a FC 3C on me twice, but you didn't followup. The most basic combo you can use is FC 3C > 2B > 2CC > IAD combo for good corner carry and decent damage. I think you should use more 2A/5As in you pressure too as it gives you some time as to what to followup with next. It also tells you whether your opponent is quite honest at blocking. I was jumping at the beginning of the round because I wanted to avoid 22A.

You managed to catch me with 3CC which I REALLY wasn't expecting, so good stuff there.

Other than Valk and Tsubaki, I play like half of the other characters but I'm not particularly good with any of them, heh. I was testing your MU exp with Jin. I wouldn't try to outpoke Jin after a 6B. It's +3 on block, and a followup 2A can catch CHs.

GGs.

Yeah. There was a time I used 236C to get in and had 50 meter and 1 stock and was like 'why on earth did I not D-cancel or rapid that?'

I think my reactions really are a little bad still, so I'm still not good at reacting to CH or FC or whiff'd normals, but I'll work on it. I'm pretty sure both times I got a 3C FC, I got 3C by accident so I wasn't even in the mindset of 'If this fatals, use 6CC or something'.

More 2A/5A in pressure, right. That's probably a good idea to help buffer my thinking time.

Yeah, I remembered that it was plus on block yet still was pressing buttons a couple times =/ Aside from that, my Jin MU exp is still pretty weak. I swear the only characters I find in ranked/player are Hakumen, Ragna, Valk, Hazama and Relius.

[Kiba]

Your AA reactions are good though, as shown in the Valk matches. While on that topic though, usually if I use any wolf setup against you in the corner, you're better off delaying your tech.

The w[j.B] ender > jump cancel > j.C will hit you if you tech and block low. Better off teching when I land or rolling forward.

The w[j.B] ender > 1C Cancel into 6B catch you no matter how you tech in the air. It's air unblockable so you'll need to barrier block, or again, don't tech.

I also use the w[j.B > j.B] > 7C cancel into high low mixup but I was failing that miserably. Again, dont tech.

Those are just a few things he can do, and most (or all?) of Valk's wolf setups can be nullified by opting not to tech. We just need to play more so you get more exp against him.

Overall I think you've improved. I can definately notice it in your combos and your pressure. After you score a CH 22X, opt for the 236B > 214B > 22B ender rather than the air ender because you're limiting your air options after 2 jumps. You just need to make your pressure a little more consistent and learn your basic bnbs.

[Shruikon]

Your AA reactions are good though, as shown in the Valk matches. While on that topic though, usually if I use any wolf setup against you in the corner, you're better off delaying your tech.

The w[j.B] ender > jump cancel > j.C will hit you if you tech and block low. Better off teching when I land or rolling forward.

The w[j.B] ender > 1C Cancel into 6B catch you no matter how you tech in the air. It's air unblockable so you'll need to barrier block, or again, don't tech.

I also use the w[j.B > j.B] > 7C cancel into high low mixup but I was failing that miserably. Again, dont tech.

Those are just a few things he can do, and most (or all?) of Valk's wolf setups can be nullified by opting not to tech. We just need to play more so you get more exp against him.

Overall I think you've improved. I can definately notice it in your combos and your pressure. After you score a CH 22X, opt for the 236B > 214B > 22B ender rather than the air ender because you're limiting your air options after 2 jumps. You just need to make your pressure a little more consistent and learn your basic bnbs.

Right. Yeah, I'm up for games against Valk to get the exp whenever. I noticed several times where I got hit because I forgot to barrier in the air so I need to fix that. Though it annoyed me a little that I was missing techs against your Valk during you midscreen combos then then lead to you getting an extender into the corner D:

Thanks. I'll keep working on it. I feel like I'm playing much better now than what I did during CS2 when Tsubaki was a better character >_>

Re: CH 22X: I usually do go for the ground enders, but I felt as if I landed the 5C a little too early as you always looked to be a little too high after 2CC and I didn't want to whiff a 236B/C.

And regarding basic BnBs, it's not that I don't know them or have them learned, I just need to stop autopiloting into whatever and use them much more in matches. Right now I feel as if I'm only actually performing them if I'm looking to perform them instead of being flexible enough to go into them on the fly when I hitconfirm.

In anycase, thanks for the critique and the advice as always

[ThunderboltZ28]

I recorded a few matches from last night. Unfortunately not much happens from me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3zqidQU2I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFk1AQ0Xyww

[Kiba]

I recorded a few matches from last night. Unfortunately not much happens from me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3zqidQU2I

When you baited Rachel's 2C, you could've punished with something more damaging, such as 3C FC > 2B > 2CC > IAD combo or 5C CH > 6CC. Against that weird astral setup (the 1st time), you could've air dashed past her to get away. Also, the 236A didn't connect in your 236C CH combo because 236C has bad proration. After a 236C CH you're better off following up with 5A > 5BB > 5CC > 22B.

Your blocking is good. I wish I were as patient as you. At 5:25 when you knocked Rachel away, I would've opted to chase after her rather than acquring stock. You don't want Rachel making it harder for you to get in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFk1AQ0Xyww

Those moments pain me so much. I know the feeling well enough, though I feel you should've brust when Rachel caught you with the crossup the 2nd time. I also feel you could optimse your combos. For example, You could've done 5A > 5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214D > 6CC > Stuff once you had Rachel in the corner rather than burning 2 stocks for around 2.5k. I don't think you're making the most out of your oki options too. It's like you'll wait or dash a little then wait. There are a lot of options you have to make the opponent scared of how and when they tech (high/low mixup, throw, 3CC etc). You don't make the most of it and then the opponent easily gets back into attacking you again.

I think you should try frame trapping that player too. He seems to like pressing buttons in your pressure.

Be careful with rolling back in the corner too. It's not very hard for Rachel to reset you there, especially with George there.

[Errol]

214A>22B is a good basic combo ender. 236A is sketchy. If I'm scared of combo proration I'll do 214A>22A.

Your pressure is just a bit weak. Rachel has no real reversals, so get right in there. Charge a bit, and run right in so that you can get a 5a. Reset your pressure. Both in block strings and in the middle of a combo. If you get a crouching combo on Rachel, sometimes you should just reset pressure after 6b. Run back in after 2b sometimes. Try some jab pressure. etc.

If you do an ender in the corner, with the opponent in the air, you want to use CCB if possible. Charge the 22B as much as possible so that you get extra charge time or the option to 6C>236236C.

[ThunderboltZ28]

I'm trying to get some of her better combos down. I'll try to do them in a match next time.

[Airk]

Transplanting this here:

Midscreen

Throw > 236C > 214B > 22B > (6C > 22B If near corner)

Corner

Throw > 6CC > 236C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B

22D > 6CC > 236C > 5C > 2CC > 236C > 214B > 22B

The 22D combo is super easy and excellent. Got it on the first try, will practice.

Struggling with the throw combo - they always seem to tech out really high after the 2C; Should I be delaying it a little after the 5C?

[Kiba]

Yea you need to delay the 5C after the 236C.

Hit them with 5C just as they're about to touch the ground.

[Errol]

Delay 5C.

Oh Kiba got it.

[Airk]

Delay 5C.

Oh Kiba got it.

Ohhhhh. Okay. Lemme give that a shot.

[TheGreatReptar]

Just some random notes I took while watching your videos Thunderbolt:

0:45 random 236B in the first video. I don't see why you would ever want to do that, especially at that spacing. You would have been much better off just walking forward a step and being in 5B range to pressure instead. Even at max range, hitting on the last active frame, the 236X series is still negative on block now. I don't know what the mindset behind that was, but you should probably avoid doing it again.

You used 236X to approach a lot in the matchup. I wouldn't advise doing that very much against Rachel. She can easily use her zoning tools to blow that up, or just cat chair it on reaction. Really, 236X is just a bad approach in general.

You block pretty well, but uou never do anything to get dudes off of you. I saw like one DP at 4:40 in the first video and it was really badly spaced. You sat on 100 meter a LOT in both videos. You could have CAed to get Rachel off of you, or burst her off (which in 3 matches, you didn't use a single burst). Your defence is solid, but you're making things harder for yourself than they need to be. You have tools to swing the momentum of the match for youself, you should use them.

You ended a lot of blockstrings with 22X (I saw both A and C being used). 22X is -5, so you should avoid using that (if it gets IB'ed, your opponent could dash 5A it as a punish). You'd be better off doing 5CC>Charge cancel, which is 0 on block, and nets a quarter of a charge.

You should charge 22B more when using it as a combo ender. The longer you charge it, the more untech time you get, so you can get charge, or even tack on 6A/6C>super to the ender.

And Kiba already mentioned this, but you backrolled in the corner a bit. If the Rachel had George or the pumpkin out, or if they just tried doing a meaty 5B, you would have gotten blown up for it.

[luher0]

Need help guys, i dont know to play against Hazama, hard to get near, and terrible to defend. I often get oportunity in corner but aways get a low damage whithout charge, could i do different ?. Tks.

http://youtu.be/CXRpYS1eKLc

http://youtu.be/7HZXUe7HbOc

[Kiba]

1st match: I think you need to vary your blockstrings a little. The first time you had Hazama in the corner was fine, but then afterwards you started going for the same things (5BB > 6A). Sure it may work on this guy for now, but obviously you wanna keep the opponent on your toes. An example would be to use 2A/5A more, but you can look at the 'blockstrings' section here for more help since it explains it pretty clear.

Also at 3:41 why did you RC the 3CC? You prorated the combo too heavily beforehand so anything you tried wouldn't have worked, and in the end you wasted 50% heat which you could've used for a counter assault or RC stuff for more mixup/pressure. There were also times where you were close to him but instead of pressuring him you retreated instead.

5D/2D taps are safe to use when you're full screen away from Hazama, but JD isn't really safe to use against him at all. If you want to try to get near him, it's a matter between IAD towards him or using 236C/D. It just depends on where he's aiming the snakes. If he uses 5D for instance (where he shoots it horizontally towards you) you can IAD over it to get closer for instance. You just have to play against him more. Once you do, you won't use CAs against him so much.

2nd match: Again I think you could vary your blockstrings a little more, so what I said above applies really. Also just a note, but Taokaka can crawl under 5B, 5C and 5A on her wakeup, so be careful with the type of pressure you inflict. I'm pretty sure she can crawl under 2A too.

You're good with your combos, but I think ultimately you could make your pressure a little more scarier by using variation. Ocassional charge cancels (not often!), 5A/2A, mixing in throws, unblockables, etc.

[luher0]

Tks man, good tips, i'll try to improve...

[Airk]

A couple of things I can add:

Try to space yourself a little more carefully in the corner. Don't stand right on top of your opponent, or they can just roll past you. Stay back closer to the edge of, or just outside of, jab range - you can always dash in and do something (or hit 5B) when you see them neutral tech, and it's much easier to stuff a forward roll at that range.

Never(for certain values of never) run after and then jump at a Hazama player when he's getting up after your burst/counterassault/whatever. Inevitably, this leads into them doing stance->flashkick->Jakou->Things that hurt a lot. Indeed, jumping at Hazama on his wakeup is generally not a good idea unless you've done a safejump setup. His "stance DP" might not have frame 1 invulnerability, but if you get CH with it due to a badly spaced/timed jump, it leads into a LOT more damage than just getting, say, an Inferno Divider to the face. If you knock Hazama away with a burst or CA, do run after him to close the distance, do not jump at him afterwards.

You can DP Hazama out of most of his pressure, honestly - particularly if you see him go into stance. Don't overdo it, but also make sure to show them that they can't harass you for free.

While mixing it up with overheads is good, that Hazama player didn't seem to be blocking your lows, so until they start doing that, there isn't necessarily a lot of reason to do it. A strong blockstring for people who just like to block is 5B(B)>2B>6A - I notice that a lot of people (myself included) do 5BB>6A, but I don't see 5BB>2A>6A very often (partly because if you're sloppy with your motions you can end up getting 5BB>2B>236A...which is not good.) and I suspect it'll catch a lot of people out.

You may want to consider bursting his air throw combos, because they can be stupid damaging (I want to say like 4k+ without meter). x.x At the very least, be -wary- of his air throws.

You are respecting him on wakeup too much - especially when he has less than 50 meter, a meaty 5B can be bad news for him on wakeup.

I'm going to guess that that B-DP "corner ender" is a misinput and you meant to do 236B>etc?

Not much to add about the Tao match, except that it was kinda hilarious when you hit with the overhead like 4 times in a row at the end of the first round. (Next time, hitconfirm better. )

Edit: And yes, though it looks like it shouldn't work, Tao can crawl under 2A. Not under throws though. :P

[luher0]

Tks, already praticing yours tips, and getting better...

[Kiba]

No problem dude and I'm glad it's working for you