[CS1-CSE] Tsubaki Self-Improvement and Critique Thread

[Kiba]

I couldn't have said it any better. Although I wouldn't advice 6CC at all. 6C jump cancel is a possibility though.

I added a little more information to the matchup against Tager and edited some stuff.

[Daedron]

Not a whole lot of activity in here so I guess I'll keep some of you busy, videos of me playing against a Tager and...I played 25+ matches against him but never won one...

I made videos of 8 of these matches, I mainly need help when I'm magnetised, I feel pretty helpless when I am. The only thing I'm going for is IB'ing sledge and a few of his other moves so I can punish with 5A. But the longer it takes me to do that the higher the chance of me getting 360'ed, 720'ed or hit by his lows and/or overheads. Yeah, I also have a problem with blocking some of his stuff...I just don't see it coming for some reason ;/

Onto the matches then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ045MKrZqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHOE24O5MI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhLDH6OHNsg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ku7gUdw4_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVG6sRiPE0M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A9sLISmQCU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrwIIVxNv-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcGgULa-Iz0

Obviously, there's a few points I've already picked up myself:

- j.214x is UNSAFE AS HELL (yet I still do it...though way less)

- There's still times where I go for a longer blockstring

- 2C timing is...off at times (MOST of the times ;p)

- I dunno how to deal with magnetism.

[STenSatsu]

I don't know if anyone really knows how to deal with magnetism as Tsu so don't feel bad. If he's doing super obvious 5d you can 623a it on reaction I think. Sometimes toss 6c or 3c behind your 5b in case of CH and just to mix up. If he blocks either you're safe with a JC. You covered most of the other stuff already. I know in the first match you should have been anti-airing way more. He was super aggressive with his jump ins and you need to make him second guess. Once he starts empty jumping, go for air throws. Also, when you backdash and get a ton of distance, charge meter with 2d. Mix 22c in off 5b also so later it is harder to react to your 5b>22[d] setups.

[Picup]

Just a bit outside the Tsu vs Tager battles, I have 3 matches of myself just to throw some more life into the thread XD;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDKb8BiouU

[Tsubaki 5B]

Did you just start Using Tsubaki?

[Picup]

Yeah, I've been on and off with her for a while.

[diospyros]

Do not dive into Ragna too much unless you have 50 heat ready for an rc. This also goes for the 236c when someone’s on guard. You will get punished.

I’ll give the advice that someone gave me when I first posted here. Test out your combos in training mode to check which ones miss(blue beat) or hit( red beat). Though, I honestly think that there was lag there. Around 3:10, insert a 5cc>236x before doing 22b.

Also, a 22b(near corner) counter hit can be picked up by 5b and then launch into an air combo.

At 1:51, just build your meter.

At 2:36,6bb doesn’t combo (at the moment).

Also, a counter hit j214c at the corner will blue beat(miss) to 6c. Use 2b>2cc to launch into an air combo.

During the lambda match, do not jD since most of lambda work comes from those air swords. Out of randomness, 22b wind-up has armor against projectiles. Remove the c in 6c and jump cancel because you will get punished. At 6:44, 6c doesn’t combo in 5cc. At 7:20, 236236c can also be comboed.

At around 8:06, the counter hit 22c can combo to 5bb and air launch.

Check out our old archive...

and visual aids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W9tlLH9S2g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dxl1LhL388

[shad0whiei]

Hey guys, it's been a good year hiatus since I last played BB all together. Been really busy but here is a couple videos of very recent matches I wouldn't mind some advice ^^; I know I need to work on timings of some combos that I just picked up recently, and some of the things I did don't quite work. But whats trial and error without the error? XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWouoT7E8Zk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbzY1CIoYl8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHAIRtrJZUU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2CmQwKQqRc

[diospyros]

For the 1st vid, the..um.. first 214B seems to be a pretty good start. Though, the following combo afterwards blue-beated because she hit the floor before the 5b hit. Try removing the dash and place faith on the 5b(it looked like it would still reach if you didn’t hit the dash). You can air launch afterwards. At 0:26, if you want to hit a 214x during a bnb combo, use 214a (since it’s the quickest one) with a 22c. If you get the timing right, it can follow into a wall bounce>6c>623c>j236a>j214c. Don’t continue with a distortion drive after a blue beated falling jc. At around 1:57, when 22X hits(can’t tell which one), use 6c>623x>j236a>j214c. Depending on the 22x, the stun will vary to make the previous set-up I mentioned possible. At 2:04, I noticed the combo blue-beated(seemed kinda weird) after 6cc. Cut the extra c in 6cc and jBC>JCC>j236a>j214C or,instead of 6cc, use 2b>2cc>jC>JCC>j236a>j214C.

…This is just from watching about two minutes. Oh boy. I’ll work on some more later.

[Daedron]

Let's see...you really need to airdive way less unless you KNOW you're gonna get a counter hit on your opponent, j214x series is way unsafe on block and will get you punished by anyone half decent.

Jumping over Lambda's 214D and then airdiving in the hopes of hitting her is something you should not be doing, the only thing Lambda needs to do is swat you right out of the air with a sword into a combo that would deal more than if you hit her, if you decide to jump over it do not use any moves in the air and just block.

236236C has no invis frames so don't try to use it to counter other moves, it'll get you hit 99% of the times.

Your combos need a lot of work as well, but Diospyros already touched on that subject. I will just add that if you hit with 5B as starter and want to use a charge in that combo do : 5B - 5CC - 22D - 6CC - hjc - j.B - j.C - jc - j.CC - j.236A - j.214A = 3121 damage

I would also advise to use the j.B in any air combo you do, it increases the damage of pretty much every combo you'll be doing (though I bet there are some exceptions, so instead of doing for example 6CC - hjc - j.C - jc - j.CC - j.236A - j.214A use 6CC - hjc - j.B - j.C - jc - j.CC - j.236A - j.214A

adding the j.B adds at least 100-ish damage to most combos and for me it's way easier to hit after a high jump than a j.C

Also, if you think the 2nd hit of 2CC won't hit, do 2C - 5B - *air combo*. don't try to do 2C - 5B - 2CC - *air combo* from midscreen, that only works in the corner

[diospyros]

Back to the first clip, the 236236x needs to be comboed because it doesn’t work by itself. Also, 214C is too slow to combo(in CS1). There are two ways that I’ve found that counter lambda’s 236C: 3C(rare) and 236D. However, the execution is air-tight so predict well. Don’t air dive too much unless it’s a rare player-specific situation or he just doesn’t see it altogether. At around 4:27(1st vid) when the CH 22D>6C touched, don’t use 214C. Instead, use jB to launch into an air combo. The astral won’t work from a long distance unless he screws up, and it needs to be comboed. Here are examples for astral set-ups: 5BB>5CC>22D, from a 214D, and (to add misery to the defeat) 22D>22D… On the second vid, there were hardly any errors except for what Daedron mentioned.

[Picup]

Thanks for the advice Diospyros, I've been watching the videos you linked and some videos that have been posted.

[diospyros]

No problem Picup. That's what we're here for after all.

[shad0whiei]

Thanks for the advice ^^ Yeah I realized some of those things messed up (like 214C) I've seen some combos lately that I didn't know when i played before so I was attempting to learn some of them ^^; The astral I was just trying to see it would work outta random, then the burst after I figured they would have tried to retaliate but didn't work XD. I do need to try to j.214x alot less, doesnt seem to do a good fake-out game at all no matter how i mix them up ^^; I'll practice the combos and post some more videos later ^^ Thanks alot

[Airk]

So I'm continuing to slowly up my game to levels that aren't completely terrible - 22D -> 6CC -> s.jc C stuff is coming out with enough reliability that I can actually count on it as part of my game, and I can usually get some damage off a counter-hit 22x or a 3CC. I haven't attempted much in the way of hitconfirming 5B counterhits into 6C yet, but that's not -really- going to lead to any new comboes, per se, just re-using the reflexes that've already been build on the 22D stuff. So... what do folks suggest as the next training mode combo to work on? I figured a 214214D combo would be good, since there seem to be a bunch of those that lead into good damage, and I'm not using Mugen AT ALL right now, but... well, hell if I can get the timing right.

So. Two questions/requests:

#1: Can people suggest another 'high value' combo to compliment the basic 5BB>2BB>5CC>236A>214A>22C (optional 236236C in the corner :P ) and all the 22D variants (Throw version, 5BB>5CC version, etc) to work on? Challenge mode isn't coming through for me here. :P

#2: Anyone have any tips on how to time either 236D or 22D after Mugen? It's easy enough to buffer the 2124214D during a throw (Which seems to be the easiest starting place for this stuff) but I really don't have any feel for when to hit the button for the first D move after the Mugen; It seems like either the move doesn't come out at all (too early) or the training dummy blocks. (Too late.). Tips? Cues? Hints? Anything.

[Dusk Thanatos]

#1: Can people suggest another 'high value' combo to compliment the basic 5BB>2BB>5CC>236A>214A>22C (optional 236236C in the corner :P ) and all the 22D variants (Throw version, 5BB>5CC version, etc) to work on? Challenge mode isn't coming through for me here. :P

Corner variants and higher charge combos should come next. 22d>6CC>sjc j.(b)c>j.cc>j.236a>j.214d>(land and wait the tiniest bit) 5C>2CC>(can't remember if 5c(w)c goes here or not)>(s)jc j.(b)c j.cc>j.236a>j.214c is the 2 charge corner combo off 22D or a high p1 starter like 3C or 5bb (yes, 5bb has 100 p1). Midscreen 2-charge is also important: 22d>6c>214d>2cc>5c(w)c>(s)jc j.bc j.cc j.236a j.214c.

5b starter to the corner is 5bb>5cc>22d>6CC>sjc j.(b)c>j.cc>j.236a>j.214d>(land)236236c. This pushes you back to neutral.

On one charge, don't be afraid to just go 22d>6c>j.bc©>j.236a>j.214c. Gives legitimate knockdown at the cost of some damage.

#2: Anyone have any tips on how to time either 236D or 22D after Mugen? It's easy enough to buffer the 2124214D during a throw (Which seems to be the easiest starting place for this stuff) but I really don't have any feel for when to hit the button for the first D move after the Mugen; It seems like either the move doesn't come out at all (too early) or the training dummy blocks. (Too late.). Tips? Cues? Hints? Anything.

This is really something you just have to get a feel for. I -think- the 22d input should start just a bit before her feet hit the ground, but I'm not positive; it's something I do by feel.

[Airk]

Yay! I knew I could count on you!

I can do the first combo you mentioned with 22D leading into 214D in the corner - it seems to flow pretty naturally from the other 22D 6CC stuff. Can you do that off 5BB>5CC though? It always seems like they tech out on me after 2CC if I do that.

I definitely need to learn the midscreen 2 charge one - I had that one picked out as something to work on, but I remembered it wrong, so it kept not working and I was getting frustrated. Ooops.

I guess I'll go to practice the mugen stuff more. I'll probably end up needing to do it on visual cues, because there are two different voice samples, so audio cues won't work. x.x

[Dusk Thanatos]

Yay! I knew I could count on you!

I can do the first combo you mentioned with 22D leading into 214D in the corner - it seems to flow pretty naturally from the other 22D 6CC stuff. Can you do that off 5BB>5CC though?

You have to end it early and go into super, or spend the charge on j.214d's godlike knockdown. I think there's a mugen combo in the corner (REALLY in the corner, like you have to be right in it) off 5bb>5cc, but the timing is tight. It's something like 5bb>5cc>214214d>623d>j.214d>6CC>etc., maybe 623D>j.236d>j.214d>2CC>etc. I'm not sure off the top of my head.

[Airk]

You have to end it early and go into super, or spend the charge on j.214d's godlike knockdown. I think there's a mugen combo in the corner (REALLY in the corner, like you have to be right in it) off 5bb>5cc, but the timing is tight. It's something like 5bb>5cc>214214d>623d>j.214d>6CC>etc., maybe 623D>j.236d>j.214d>2CC>etc. I'm not sure off the top of my head.

Okay; I'm a little confused here.

You listed both of these, but you seem to be indicating they're...well, hold on.

Here are the combos:

22D>6CC>s.jc C>j.c CC>j.236A>f.214D>5C>2CC>s.jc C>j.c CC>j.236A>j.214C - Two charges, but doesn't seem to work if prefaced by 5BB>5CC because they tech out around the 2CC point. I can do this one.

5BB>5CC>22D>6CC>sjc j.(B)C>j.CC>j.236A>j.214D>(land)236236C - this is the one you just pointed out, with the super ender. Also two charges, seems to be the "end it early and go into super" you reference.

So...both of these combos use j.214D. I'm already spending charge for it. I can't spend charge to extend things any further on the 5BB>5CC version, right?

(Not worried about the Mugen combo right now. Will start with the throw version. If I can get past that, then I'll worry about other places to use it.)

[Dusk Thanatos]

I can't spend charge to extend things any further on the 5BB>5CC version, right?

Not off the top of my head.Ending with super like that is useful sometimes, though.

Maybe you could OTG if you did 5bb>5cc>22d>6c>j.bc>j.236a>j.214d. I might check that later. Probably not, though = /

[Airk]

oh, I'm not saying the super version of that combo isn't useful - I land a 5BB WAY more often than I land a naked 22D, so having something more productive to do off that hit when I have 2 charges is bloody nice.

[TD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM0EGM5aw2o

me in the danisen

btw all those sj.c's were actually tk236c fail. idk why l couldn't get it :l

[Airk]

I don't know if that's you asking for advice (in which case, I have none, really. Except that you dropped your Mugen combo both times. >.> How'm I supposed to copy you if you don't do it right? ) or whether you were offering the video to me for examples, in which case, rockin', because visuals are bloody helpful when you don't really know what a combo is supposed to look like. Going to try to memorize what that midscreen 2 charge looks like from this.

Also, the Astral at the end made me happy.

[Dusk Thanatos]

Fearless hitconfirms were delicious. 5b>22d was godlike (and so fucking practical in that matchup).

Not so sure about overpressuring Tager with strings that holey, but it was netplay, so eh. (x>6c can be killed by mashing on normal block by some charas, so 360A would rape that shit so hard).

22D is +3 on normal block. No need to run away afterwards.

5bb has 100 p1. You could've gotten some juicy combos a couple of times off the 5b>5bb frametrap, but didn't.

3c has 100 p1, but I didn't see you use it against Tager (which is pretty fair not to do), so np there.

I can't fucking ever tk 236C for some reason. Don't feel bad, lol. It's weird as hell for a tk, I think (I can do TK flameribbons fine in MB and plenty of TKs in this game fine, but can't fucking do that one).

Optimal combos needed. Sometimes, you also just did random combos that were nowhere near practical. Not sure why, especially when there were obvious better ones.

Really, my big complaint is just combo choice. You're one of the more solid players in general, so it's harder to find bones to pick.

[TD]

@airk, l just learned the power of her d moves and mugen a few days ago so im still scrubby with mugen combos. but i'll get better at them. my matches are now are less about asstrolls and more about mugeeeen :3

@dusk

-l'm familiar with d moves being plus, but idk... its netplay, they can still try to 360 and miracles do happen (fml -_- )

-3c? theres an idea. max range 3c. only thing is dat 360...

-iirc, 5b has p1 80. if l do 5bb stagger, if he blocks l have no safe options :l

-tk fucked me over >.>

-l always go for combos that are flashy (fuck damage if its gonna be an ugly combo). i'm an asthetic person by nature :3

l really just bait 360 and stop jumps vs tager by keeping my string at only 5b and then jumping, or backing up.

thx guys =3