[CSE] Hakumen Q & A: New players check here first

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah, I meant 3 star combos that are more practical. You could spend all 8 stars mid screen if you wanted to get more damage but that doesn't mean you should. It's better to save it for the corner, imo, unless it'll kill them.

[FACE CLAIMER]

yeah, i've noticed that the most star conservative combos are hotaru corner combos that garner about 4-5k if uninterrupted. i keep randomly getting 200 psr players online or someone who's never played before so i dont know how im really doing with my haku lately "xs

[Kirbstah]

Hey, I'm starting to pick up Hakumen and I've *sort-of* got his BnB down. I sometimes mistime the J.2C > 2C > J.2A part, but all parts before that I can get fairly easily. I've tried doing the knees trick, and it works fairly well for me, but sometimes my reaction ... isn't that great ^-^". Do I just have to keep on practicing to get the timing right? Or is there another, easier, way? One last question, when I practice online to get a feel for the combos and Hakumens play style I have no idea how to approach, or if I should approach at all without Magatama. Thanks in advance X3.

P.S. Sorry if this was already solved deeper in the thread, I don't have the time (or attention span :3) to look through all of that.

[IndigoNovember]

Hey, I'm starting to pick up Hakumen and I've *sort-of* got his BnB down. I sometimes mistime the J.2C > 2C > J.2A part, but all parts before that I can get fairly easily. I've tried doing the knees trick, and it works fairly well for me, but sometimes my reaction ... isn't that great ^-^". Do I just have to keep on practicing to get the timing right? Or is there another, easier, way?

Another way to think about [Hakumen's BnB], is to do the falling j.2c when your opponent has flipped over and is falling. As soon as you see s/he has completely flipped, do the j.2c, you can get away with doing it a little earlier as well.

You can use that as an alternative to the knees trick to get a better general idea of the timing. But yes, you should just practice more until you can get the timing without much trouble.

One last question, when I practice online to get a feel for the combos and Hakumens play style I have no idea how to approach, or if I should approach at all without Magatama. Thanks in advance X3.

P.S. Sorry if this was already solved deeper in the thread, I don't have the time (or attention span :3) to look through all of that.

I'd tell you to go through both this thread and the General Discussion thread, but since you don't have the time... You should be able to go in without regards to magatama, Hakumen's options are indeed limited without any Magatama but they are not nonexistent. As for general approach, you have plenty of options: Hop, Air Dash, Super Jump, Kishuu, Gurren, etc. Just try them out and see which ones you feel most comfortable with using. They all have their utility so none are not worth using.

[Kirbstah]

Thanks, the flipped trick has worked wonders XD. I'm starting to get the BnB down consistently, instead of getting as far as 2C.

[Kirbstah]

Now I'm finding it difficult to airdash after the first J.2A, I'm trying to mash in 66 until I actually air dash, but then I can't get in the second J.2A. And sometimes I can't even get the J.5C to connect when I *do* get the J.2A in. Help?

[WolfCrimson]

Now I'm finding it difficult to airdash after the first J.2A, I'm trying to mash in 66 until I actually air dash, but then I can't get in the second J.2A. And sometimes I can't even get the J.5C to connect when I *do* get the J.2A in. Help?

Don't mash it, time it correctly. Just do it after j2A's animation. Same with jC. Practice it till you get the hang of it, which should pretty quick.

[Seven]

Don't mash it, time it correctly. Just do it after j2A's animation. Same with jC. Practice it till you get the hang of it, which should pretty quick.

The most significant advantage to learning the timing is that you can focus more on delaying jC properly in case you are too high for the 5c 3c to land upon an immediate jC.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Now I'm finding it difficult to airdash after the first J.2A, I'm trying to mash in 66 until I actually air dash, but then I can't get in the second J.2A. And sometimes I can't even get the J.5C to connect when I *do* get the J.2A in. Help?

Go into training mode and have the a.i either jump or super jump and practice just doing j2a>66>j2a. It took me quite a bit of time but once I figured out the timing the working on that specific part the combo(s) became much easier. Sometimes it's best to concentrate on the specific part of a combo that gives you the hardest time.

With hakumen I would say people have the hardest part for people to complete with basic hakumen combos is j2a>66>j2a>jc, and SJ2A>2c>SJ2a. For things like that you need to isolate that part to understand the timing of it rather than just mashing buttons hoping that it'll come out. When you can perform that specific part, then you incorporate it into the entire combo.

I hope that helps.

[mAc Chaos]

The j.A and j.B > 2C stuff is what kills me nowadays.

[SansProtocol]

The j.A and j.B > 2C stuff is what kills me nowadays.

If you're talking about after a Renka wallbounce, you have to delay the IAD a bit and time the j.A early. That usually works for me.

[mAc Chaos]

I mean the whole IAD j.A j.B > 2C > j.2A > IAD j.2A combo piece that's involved in some combos. Or maybe it's j.B first.

I can get it like once out of a 100 times on Tager, but no way on anyone else. It also depends how far away I am I think when I start the combo.

Usually j.A and j.B lands, but they tech before I can land the 2C.

[Seven]

How would you compare it in difficulty to the renka > IAD jA > jA > 2c combo?

[SansProtocol]

You're may be hitting them too early/high with the j.A or delayed cancelling into j.B too soon. Give your opponent time to fall lower and you should be hitting them with j.B very close to the ground. The height's very similar to the situations in which you use falling j.B from an air throw when you're too low for a j.2C.

EDIT: I could always hop on XBL and show you?

Edited January 9, 2012 by SansProtocol

[Sophisticat]

Mac, I wouldn't bother in CS2. That combo is incredibly character-specific, and is so easy to whiff in an actual match it's not funny. In CSEX j.B's untech time makes this combo much more viable (it's also j.B -> j.A in CSEX where it's the opposite in CS2).

I instead do IAD j.B -> Hotaru -> AD -> j.2c -> etc. because it's relatively the same, but way easier and only costs 3s off 3c CH.

But if you really want to practice, then use Ragna. His hitbox is probably the best one. J.A and j.B also have to hit at right the last pixel/moment in order for 2c to hit. Good luck.

[Schneider-X]

The increase in j. B's untech time in CSE makes the combo significantly easier. The best thing to practice in CS2 in preparation for those style of combos is your IADs.

Also 10f Shippu is ridiculous.

[IndigoNovember]

I've seen both J.a -> J.b and J.b -> J.a in CSEX. I suppose the difference is that J.b -> J.a still works when the opponent is so far beneath you that J.a -> J.b would whiff, aka J.b's hitbox is bigger than J.a's when considering the vertical aspect of it. Other than that, I know no real reason why we have both. Does anybody have any information at the moment?

[kotokot]

j.B>j.A works on grounded opponent and does more damage than j.A>j.B

finally you have advantage if you hit j.B too high and used jump cancel before this, much better for jumpins

[IndigoNovember]

Ack, forgot to mention that I was wondering about the differences between J.b -> J.a and J.a -> J.b midcombo. Nevertheless thanks for the input kotokot.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Also 10f Shippu is ridiculous.

This.

[dioxideUniversa]

Ack, forgot to mention that I was wondering about the differences between J.b -> J.a and J.a -> J.b midcombo. Nevertheless thanks for the input kotokot.

I was also wondering about this, since j.b -> j.a deals more damage and has aforementioned spacing implications, but then I always see j.a -> j.b in JP match videos. I've messed with both and I'm not sure about the reasoning just yet (other than j.a -> j.b might be a little easier...?)

[Naphiel]

Also 10f Shippu is ridiculous.

Never really used Shippu in CS2 unless it was going to kill because I preferred to save my meter.

What new uses does it have at 10f?

[Spark]

On IB you can punish Lambda j.214D, Mu's 41236C(Lvl 1 - 2), Bang's 623B, After blocking the first hit of Litchi's 41236D > B/C, Platinum's 3C, etc...

[mAc Chaos]

Hmm, a naked Shippu does quite a bit of damage too. Definitely worth it! Unlike normally tacking it on at the end of a combo where it does like 800 or something for 4 stars.

That makes blocking Lambda's j.214D amazing.

[IndigoNovember]

Hmm, a naked Shippu does quite a bit of damage too. Definitely worth it! Unlike normally tacking it on at the end of a combo where it does like 800 or something for 4 stars.

That makes blocking Lambda's j.214D amazing.

I thought it was 1000 now? But yeah, this is going to be some scary stuff to throw out on Instant Block >=3 .