[CSE] Hakumen Q & A: New players check here first

[qwerty]

mostly? so it wont be finished yet ik. so what does the majority of it cover?

most of it's gonna cover mixup, poking and spacing. there'll be a bit of something for everyone, that's for sure.

the only part i can't really do myself is optimal damage combos, since i haven't played this game in months and i go make a sandwich any time a combo starts in a matchvid.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, everyone can just fill in the blanks for that one.

[currentlemon]

Who are some good Japanese Hakumen players I can watch and what are their names?

[psycofang2]

suzume, 0 , ask spark. watch spark too.

[Sophisticat]

Film, Gozaru, Suzume, A-92, 0, and the A-Cho player are the Hakus that come to mind. Suzume and A-92 are top, and I'd put Film and the A-Cho dude next in line.

[RoKn]

The 4 frame nerf start up for j2c has me salty, I won't lie, MAD salty it's the only thing I dislike about cs hakumen. Anyways, j2c is only good for when you're going for an iad when you know/see them firing a projectile that could easily be cut.

Stupid j2c...>_>

Personally I never use j2C to cut anything, especially with the 4 frame nerf. I cry about it too, didn't think 4 frames would make THAT much of a difference... feels a lot less reliable in general, and get grabbed out of it like nothing else T_T...

[Divine_prophet]

I fell in tears last night (not really) when I finally did Hakumen's BnB after a month and a half of practicing. Though I don't sj.2A, is that safe?, sj.2A whiffs 99% of the time(I don't think it has ever hit...) and j.C doesn't connect sometimes when I attempt the BnB from mid screen. It hits if the opponent is pushed into the corner, is that normal or am I doing something wrong?

[psycofang2]

there is a height limit that determines whether to sj or just jump. if you catch them as late as possible with 2C then no dont jump. but if you land it as early as possible (while still being able to do the whole combo) then yes sj is necessary. also if you do 214B(1 hit)>236AA>into jC combo then sj is completely necessary.

[banshee]

[...] also if you do 214B(1 hit)>236AA>into jC combo then sj is completely necessary.

if your Enma hits as low as possible you can do a normal jump (at least on certain characters). best thing for me though was to learn to do all the moves as early as possible and just use sj every single time.

[DrunkenSnake]

Can't you just open "vs Valk" thread already?

Or at least give me some tips against him? It's my least fav matchup now actually...

[psycofang2]

eh ill asnswer this question for you through my own experience so take it how you will:

valk, hes slow (in human form) good damage (in human form) and a few little mind games here and there.

in human form: watch out for his 6C, imo it feels fast. it cancels from 5C, and 2C. usuaully you just block low, so REACT to this overhead, do not expect it.

his strum wolf DD has more loose holes than a 5 cent hooker. you can easily 5D the the DD on start up or very late use 2D or 6D. if you are in the air late chain jD>jD to counter the second blow. 2D and 6D work if you block the first hit. afterwards just if you didnt counter this yet, IB the rest of the DD until just before the last kick, then 2D,6D into whatever, if you IBed you should have at least 2 stars. vs his Air DD jD,5D<and 6D kills it.

he has very long pokes, so only use 4C at near max distance, or they can IB it and respond with a 5B CH (bad for you) into a deadly combo. imo his pokes feel fast as well so dont 3C at close range. also beware of his 2C, it is a legit anti air and i myself have no problems AAing an IAD happy haku. 6A can also be "counted" as an AA due to its auto-guard. his pokes are slow enough to IB easily, but it puts you in so much block stun that its hard to counter between say : 5B>2B>5B>5C. its legit and cannot be countered so wait for a good opportunity.

his strum wolf DD can easily be used as a reversal, kinda like daifunka just not with the insane invincibilty, it has good invincibilty, and if you are not careful or being careless with 2A,5A,4C poking you will eat it if they choose to use it. his air DD is terrible outside of combos and quite easy to block. butt his damage isnt something to be laughed at, one wrong move and you lose 5-7k hp.

his jC is also something to watch out for, it feels faster than our jC. also beware FC 6C.

in wolf form: the damage is minor. tsubaki level. but his wolf form isnt ment for damage, its ment for the insane amount of heat he gets per hit/block from wolf cannon. the command grab is strong but a quick 2A,jA depending on your current position knocks him out of wolf form. in wolf form his A is a solid low, his B is a mid/high also air unblockable so barrier. his wolf C can be dangerous because he can immediately dash at you the revert into human form and do w/e so be a bit on guard.

all in all this match up imo goes around you being careful with your moves: his shoulder rush specail is +2 on block so dont try to mash out, just relax and be patient.

[psycofang2]

his low special: the kick + follow up kick unless IB you Ibed the first kick this is unpunishable. his 236C is an overhead strangely. so if you are constantly blocking low they might try to hit you with this, hense its not really a good idea to stay too close. that pretty much sums up my experiences and uses with valk.

take it how you will and do be careful.

EDIT: also everyone just needs to be patient, sparks keeping it closed for a reason so just wait.

[Spark]

I'll open it up next week once I get a chance to play the local Valk player.

[DrunkenSnake]

...

Thanks, really useful info.

[Sophisticat]

Oooh, didn't see your post, Snake.

Psycho's right on the money for a lot of it. I'll just add that you need to lay on as much pressure as you can. A good Valk will get you to block, and this is one of the rare matchups where you want the opposite to be happening. Valk pressure is no joke, but he doesn't have a reversal, so push into the corner and mixup into the hardest hitting combo you got.

Personally, this is Valk's favor because he's got ungodly pressure, mixup, and damage. You can't space as usual with j.C and 4c because of his Wolf dash transforms covering the whole screen. He's a male Tao in terms of mobility, so he's hard to pin down. The good news is that he still has to come to you. I find counters really unreliable in this match unless you're actively trying to bait his offense, such as an AA 2c or incoming 6c, both of which can be reaction j.D'd.

Good luck, Valk is one hell of a character. Mash IB -> 5/2a like your life depends on it, and you might be able to get him off you. But if he can get 50% meter, just like fighting full-tension Slayer, don't. Get. Hit.

[huey253]

Good luck, Valk is one hell of a character. Mash IB -> 5/2a like your life depends on it, and you might be able to get him off you. But if he can get 50% meter, just like fighting full-tension Slayer, don't. Get. Hit.

don't do this if the move you instant blocked was 6C or 6B

[njmamm]

can't you just IB 2/6D?

I mean, it's 1 frame startup compared to 5/6 frames

[Tofu Warrior]

What can Hakumen do about opponents that like to jump out of pressure? I know if they block a 2A and try to jump out, chaining another 2A will catch them. That's only really scary with 4 stars though. There's the obvious option of jump after them and air throw, but that's pretty unsafe if you guess wrong.

[mAc Chaos]

What can Hakumen do about opponents that like to jump out of pressure? I know if they block a 2A and try to jump out, chaining another 2A will catch them. That's only really scary with 4 stars though. There's the obvious option of jump after them and air throw, but that's pretty unsafe if you guess wrong.

Raging is pretty much your only option.

Maybe a hop/TK hotaru, but that probably takes too long. If you're right in their face and you want to psychic it, you could throw out a 2C which would snag them on the way up... that never usually happens though.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Good luck, Valk is one hell of a character.

Lol so says Nolan, the nigga who switched mains cus hakumen is "too offensive":rolleyes:

Also I would say the match-up is even from what I can see, we'll go with spark's input on it but from what I can see based on japanese matches (even though it's online) hakumen still has the slightly higher damage output advantage, a clear defense advantage (second highest primers AND health in the game). Haku also has the range advantage to keep valk out till he has the meter for an offensive.

Valk has the clear speed advantage but it's not like haku is slow like tager, and he also has an easier time in wolf form with getting in for a wicked mix up game but, he has no reversal. While haku may not have options against valk's block string frame traps it doesn't take much to knock valk out of wolf form.

I haven't wrote everything on what I think of the match up but I do feel it's even from what I can see.

EDIT: @ Tofu, you can also try a jump canceled jc, I use that occasionally it's not really safe and it's best to have 2 stars incase they block and want to retaliate you have a pending FC hotaru waiting for them.

EDITx2:

Sophisticat changed mains? FLAY THE SKIN FROM HIS BONES

I with this guy:eng101:

[mAc Chaos]

Sophisticat changed mains? FLAY THE SKIN FROM HIS BONES

[Tofu Warrior]

I'll hop into training mode tomorrow and figure out some safe strings that stuff jump out attempts.

And I'm probably way off, but mAc Chaos, is your avatar a reference to Kusaregedo from Samurai Shodown?

[mAc Chaos]

*looks up Kusaregedo*

Oh god, no. That looks like something out of Super Metroid.

It's just a reference to Hakumen's Mugen combo :P TSUBAKI xN

It would be neat if you could figure some stuff out for that. When I fight some Lambdas their favorite thing to do is IAD back and get ready to j.D anything I do to get out of pressure and it works pretty well for them.

If I try to psychic it and IAD j.C after them, half the time they just sit there crouching and I'll end up IADing across the screen and giving them back their zoning :P

[Tofu Warrior]

That situation you described vs. Lambda is pretty much the story of my life haha. Oh, and I also forgot about Renka, canceling random normals into Renka usually catches jumpers. That's probably our best bet. If you're attentive, you can hit confirm that into 623AA for 4.2K, raw Renka is a great starter. If that's too tough, an easier confirm would be Renka, late cancel the second hit into Gurren > hop 5A into BnB for 3.1K (wow, that's a metric fuckton of fighting game jargon, I feel nerdy lol). If you're anticipating that your opponent will try jumping out, the hit confirm into 623AA becomes much easier. That's what my time in the lab has shown.

And the reason I thought it was Kusaregedo was because he has a move that looks exactly like that in the Samurai Shodown games. Ugliest character ever designed.

Edit: Wait, shit, that's only when they're normal blocking. If they're trying to jump out with barrier guard, it's a whole different ball game. Back in the lab we go.

[Sophisticat]

I think Leonil posted the way to catch jumpers a while ago, but I can't remember where I saw it.

I do 2a, IAD, j.C, or just hop forward if they jump out. Not much you can do.

Lol so says Nolan, the nigga who switched mains cus hakumen is "too offensive":rolleyes:

EDITx2:

I with this guy:eng101:

Sophisticat changed mains? FLAY THE SKIN FROM HIS BONES

I didn't! xD

Valk is fun, but Haku's still my main since he's still closest to my playstyle despite his changes. Besides, I barely get to play these days and Valk needs a lot of training to be effective with, so it's not like I can use him all that well. I plan on at least subbing him unless Haku becomes really ugly to use in CS2 or something.

Yeah, I guess we'll wait for Spark's input since he's a much better player than any of us, but I do say there's no way this match is any better than even.