[CSE] Hakumen Q & A: New players check here first

[psycofang2]

i guess they either forgot to put it in or they just said "no he has enough now"

EDIT: woops i ment vs bell bug.

[Spark]

It can, it's just really bad at it.

[BladeOfJustice7]

It can, it's just really bad at it.

Proof?

[Spark]

Besides being in the frame data, I've 2Ced Hazama's j.2D and made a orb appear. Although that's the only time I've ever seen it happen.

[ZONG_one]

Proof?

Spark said it.

[Leonil_Requiem]

Proof?

Since Spark is busy busy running a tourney with his hakumen i'll supply prof of 2C's consistent fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lJK0icp3p8#t=01m15s

The hit box.... what am i doing i made this for a reason xD

read 2C

in addition the hitbox of hakumen last way after the move, and your in counter hit crouching for way to long. can be punish from in air block with barrier. the only way to grant this move practicality is to cancel with Enma, causing a frame trap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLa6QZy27Y

but regardless, this move is simply to annoying to use when you have better options like 5A, 5B and many other options. this move is at the end of a long list of tools to get someone out of the sky.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Besides being in the frame data, I've 2Ced Hazama's j.2D and made a orb appear. Although that's the only time I've ever seen it happen.

Real talk spark, I checked the frame data too, and that's why it had me skeptical on its accuracy since, I tested 2c on several projectiles before posting about 2c's "deficiencies" before, tests included tsubaki's slow ass aerial one. The most I've 2c do, is clash it physically attributed projectiles like ouroboros, other than that it was a ch on hakumen.

I'll have to test out that scenerio though, why do you suppose 2c is like that spark?

Spark said it.

LOL I was asking for that wasn't I?

[Spark]

I've seen it clash with the chains as well. Actually before the hit box data was released I just assumed it was because Hakumen's hit box hit the projectile before the sword did. Now I'm not sure why it is the way it is.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I've seen it clash with the chains as well. Actually before the hit box data was released I just assumed it was because Hakumen's hit box hit the projectile before the sword did. Now I'm not sure why it is the way it is.

I'm starting to get the feeling it was simply a developers error, there's no reason for 2c to have such terribad cutting ability (if any at all). Hopefully this is fixed in cs2.

[ZONG_one]

LOL I was asking for that wasn't I?

Yes you were, lol.

But I've made a void before using 2C, and I don't even use Haku that often.

But yeah..

I tried to again quite a few times after that, and always take a CH for trying. >.>

It is very ass. "/

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yes you were, lol.

But I've made a void before using 2C, and I don't even use Haku that often.

But yeah..

I tried to again quite a few times after that, and always take a CH for trying. >.>

It is very ass. "/

What projectile specifically, I tried most projectiles against 2c and none of them were cut. Tomorrow I'll be sure to try hazama's j2d,since that's why spark cut with 2c. So I would appreciate knowing what was the projectile you cut.

But to be fair if 2c can't cut tsubaki's projectile then it's not viable to use outside of combos then. I mean that projectile is so slow it makes Order Sol's block head buster look like stun edge...

[Hakumensusanooh]

Hello everyone. I have one reaaaallyyy annoying pain trying to pull off that double 5Cx2! Can anyone help me on how to time it? Because after those fatal 214B's I still can pull it off. Especially in challenge 9. What is the timing? Help please?

[psycofang2]

challenge 9s double 5C depends on 2 factors.

1) height of your jump.

2) the height bang was hit by j214B.

try hitting him at the highest point ti the jump then hit him with the vertical tip of 5C (the very top of the swing, the arc) then by he hits the ground you can 5C again. i believe bladeofjustice has a video of it. maybe...

[Hakumensusanooh]

challenge 9s double 5C depends on 2 factors.

1) height of your jump.

2) the height bang was hit by j214B.

try hitting him at the highest point ti the jump then hit him with the vertical tip of 5C (the very top of the swing, the arc) then by he hits the ground you can 5C again. i believe bladeofjustice has a video of it. maybe...

I will have to practice, I'm a Hakumen vetran since CT release. But I can't pull this simple trick!? XD Thanks I will have to watch the vids and practice the exact timing.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I will have to practice, I'm a Hakumen vetran since CT release. But I can't pull this simple trick!? XD Thanks I will have to watch the vids and practice the exact timing.

Practice 5cx2 by setting the a.i to do constant attack and react with j.d. J.d allows for the 5cx2 as well, so it will be good practice for you.

[Sophisticat]

Haha, it's not simple at all. It's one of the hardest things to master execution-wise in BB, but it's very do-able if you put in the time.

Okay, so there are a couple factors affecting whether 5c x2 will hit:

1) Hotaru height

2) Jump delay after Hotaru

3) j.2C height

4) 5c timing

Off hop Hotaru is your best bet for an easy height. Start with a slight delay after you hit to get the opponent's hitbox to be right alongside yours in your jump arc.

When you are exactly level to the other's hitbox when in the falling portion of your jump, hit j.2c. If these steps were done correctly, j.2c should come out with the other's hitbox is just above yours while you are at or near the lowest possible point to hit j.2c.

If done at the lowest possible point, hit 5c immediately (if not, you have 1 or 2 frames of delay). Depending on the character, 5c should either hit the very tip of the character's clothing, or no visible part was actually touched. Mash 5c again, and it'll come out. The rest is easy as cake.

Note: in 5c x2 combos you might have to sj. the followups after 2c since the hitboxes tend to go higher.

Order of easiest to hardest 5c x2 combos per standard starter (imo):

1) 5c CH (AA) -> 5c

2) Enma

3) 5c CH

4) J.2c CH

5) 5c CH (AA) -> 5c -> enma -> j.2c -> 5c x2

6) J.D

7) Hotaru FC

8) Hotaru non-FC

2) to 5) are roughly equivalent in difficulty, however, and j.D is really just weird. It's really just off Hotaru that it's a real bitch to get down. Corner-only 5c -> 2c links are slightly easier because 2c is 1f faster than 5c on startup.

Go wild.

[psycofang2]

its not hard. i got it on my 1st try and 5x afterwards. its simple clock based math. sophiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[njmamm]

Yeah what kind of bullshit damage/combos can you pull off with FC Hotaru anyway?

[psycofang2]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9314-CS-Hakumen-CS-Combo-Guide

[Sophisticat]

^ Depends on how many stars you got, whether you're in the corner, and whether or not you incorporate 5c -> 5/2c links.

You can have a minimum of 3.6k with standard mid-screen bnb or up to 10k+ with 8 stars in the corner.

its not hard. i got it on my 1st try and 5x afterwards. its simple clock based math. sophiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Oh shut up you Mr.160+ IQ, I have to work at this stuff.

Well yeah, I can get it a couple times in a row now, but it's still pretty ridiculous in its specificity unless I'm doing it wrong.

[psycofang2]

its technically just bangs hit box that makes it hard. vs anyone else its waaaaaaay easier.

[Sophisticat]

Oh yeah, that might be it. I usually practice against Jin, and it is easier than when I used to be doing the challenge. But it's still hard!

[Razgriz]

Is there any point to canceling a successful air-throw with hotaru? I doubt it's possible to have the hotaru hit after the throw has done its damage.

I remember you could to the same thing off j.D in CT but it was kind of pointless.

[psycofang2]

Is there any point to canceling a successful air-throw with hotaru? I doubt it's possible to have the hotaru hit after the throw has done its damage.

I remember you could to the same thing off j.D in CT but it was kind of pointless.

honestly? no.

the only way to hit them with hotaru from an air grab it to input hotaru right before the elbow drop. i have never seen it lead into anything. at all. unless its insanely close to the ground, then it leads into the usual combo.

after an air throw j2C/jB>into either the 5A>jA meterless or the J2C>5C enma combo.

[Mikeomak]

When i start a match is there specific things to do verse certain characters?For example:When a match starts and I'm up against Litchi should i just block to be safe, or backdash, or throw out a poke? Is there some characters that I can throw out a poke and be completely safe at the beginning of a round(seems like Makoto can't do much to start)?