[CSE] Hakumen Q & A: New players check here first

[Stone Drum]

how should midscreen pressure with hakumen work? How can I improve my hit confirms? Should megatama be used a certain way, or should it just be used creatively? These questions may seem arbitrary, but, idk, I'm just struggling with Haku

[BladeOfJustice7]

Never really used Shippu in CS2 unless it was going to kill because I preferred to save my meter.

What new uses does it have at 10f?

Things like Grab>gurren>6c>Shippu are possible again. 4c>Shippu is possible without counter hit as well. I saw it in a match it does about late 2k damage but it's good enough for it to be warranted as a threat. I'm sure there's more like what Spark posted but I don't own the game.

how should midscreen pressure with hakumen work? How can I improve my hit confirms? Should megatama be used a certain way, or should it just be used creatively? These questions may seem arbitrary, but, idk, I'm just struggling with Haku

Hakumen for cs2 or csex?

[IndigoNovember]

how should midscreen pressure with hakumen work?

Well, you're gaining magatama as you stand around in neutral, so you don't necessarily have to go do pressure. If you want to do midscreen pressure, I'd assume going for frame traps would serve you best, considering Hakumen doesn't really have good high-low mixup.

How can I improve my hit confirms?

That's probably just more practice and staying on top of the situation.

Should megatama be used a certain way, or should it just be used creatively?

If you're talking about in the neutral game or pressure, then definitely creatively. If you're talking about in combos, you should probably stick with the combos that have already been discovered.

These questions may seem arbitrary, but, idk, I'm just struggling with Haku

Don't worry about it, Hakumen isn't exactly the easiest character to pick up and learn.

[Stone Drum]

Things like Grab>gurren>6c>Shippu are possible again. 4c>Shippu is possible without counter hit as well. I saw it in a match it does about late 2k damage but it's good enough for it to be warranted as a threat. I'm sure there's more like what Spark posted but I don't own the game.

Hakumen for cs2 or csex?

I meant csex. I am apt with hakumen's bnb's and the high damage corner combos, and a few other nuances like how the opposite knee of j.b can still strike on midair crossup.. It's just I'm having real trouble taking my game to a solid level because I can never get a hit off of my normals :-/

and I see to burn all of my magatama on things like 4c-gurren-3c or things like that, so when I get to the corner, I always have zero magatama.. it's like if I do get a confirm, I always burn my magatama. Then I watch videos of players like chin, and I'm just stupefied. I'm trying to break down his game. For instance what he does on hit confirms early in the match etc.

[Kirbstah]

I'm back! This may be one of the my last posts on this thread, because I am only struggling with one part of the BnB. So far I've am getting the J2C -> 2C down about 75% of the time and the J2A -> J2a -> also 75% of the time. I have only gotten the J2A -> 5C down a few times. Suggestions on getting down the 5C? Thanks!

[IndigoNovember]

I have only gotten the J2A -> 5C down a few times. Suggestions on getting down the 5C? Thanks!

Do you mean J.2a -> J.5c ? If so then it's simply doing it soon after you do J.2a, no reason to delay it too much or anything.

If you mean J.5c -> 5c, then that's corner only.

[Kirbstah]

Yes, J.2a -> J.5C. whoops XD. Sometimes when I do it it whiffs over the opponents head. Also, can you suggest a basic corner combo that I can try? I can usually get J.2a -> J.2a -> AD -> J.2a -> J.c with some luck.

[Stone Drum]

I have no clue how you are whiffing 5c over the opponent's head. Like Indigo said, just do the jc right immediately after the j2a, no delay needed. As for me, I always super jump after every followup off of a 2c. For example, 2c-superjumpj2a-AD-J2A-JC.

Why don't you look at videos online so you can visually see the correct timing for these combos?

A very standard corner combo would be:

136b-2c-sj2a-j2c-2c-j2a-AD-j2a-jc-5c-3c. Once you master this, (which shouldn't take long), try to add in a 3rd loop of 2c-j2a-j2c, so:

136b-2c-sj2a-j2c-2c-sj2a-2c-sj2a-j2c-AD-j2a-jc-5c-3c

In order to do add the 3rd loop, you need to make sure the falling j2c's connect *right* before the opponent hits the ground, and you have to do super jump 2a's off of the 2c's.

Again, watching combo vids will help immensely

[dioxideUniversa]

Who are you doing training mode on? Some characters have more strict hitboxes when falling for the j.C link / are easier to whiff on if they fall too much.

You can whiff the j.C at the end of corner combos if you did not time links in the combo correctly. Usually this happens when they fall too much, which could be at the j.2a -> AD -> j.2a if you haven't gotten the hang of it yet.

If you don't delay the j.2a -> j.2cs, often they will float too high and you will either whiff the last super jump j.2a or the j.C will go under them instead of above them. Just mess with different parts of the combo and see what the results you get are.

And, as Stone Drum says, recording yourself in training mode and comparing your combo to one in a video of a higher level player can help if you watch closely.

EDIT: Finding videos was a pain in the ass, so I just made one instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQt2kP1yVkY

After the throw combo are three different ways to do the basic corner BNB. The ones with 6c are better obviously, and the last version should be easier than the 2nd one (which is the more proper way and does the most damage.)

Edited January 30, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[IndigoNovember]

Who are you doing training mode on? Some characters have more strict hitboxes when falling for the j.C link / are easier to whiff on if they fall too much.

You can whiff the j.C at the end of corner combos if you did not time links in the combo correctly. Usually this happens when they fall too much, which could be at the j.2a -> AD -> j.2a if you haven't gotten the hang of it yet.

This part is addressing the J.2a -> J.5c stuff.

If you don't delay the j.2a -> j.2c's, often they will float too high and you will either whiff the last super jump j.2a or the j.C will go under them instead of above them. Just mess with different parts of the combo and see what the results you get are.

And, as Stone Drum says, recording yourself in training mode and comparing your combo to one in a video of a higher level player can help if you watch closely.

EDIT: Finding videos was a pain in the ass, so I just made one instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQt2kP1yVkY

After the throw combo are three different ways to do the basic corner BNB. The ones with 6c are better obviously, and the last version should be easier than the 2nd one (which is the more proper way and does the most damage.)

This part is addressing the corner combo stuff.

I split dioxideUniversa's answer into two parts to better clarify which one addressed which question, hope you don't mind dioxideUniversa.

They've basically said what I would say. To answer your first question, you mainly need to play around with the timing that you execute moves. Do it early, do it late, see what happens, go from there. When the J.5c whiffs, it's due to either you or your opponent falling too fast. Sometimes there are things you can do to prevent that, sometimes there aren't. This is one of those things that just messing around in Training Mode solves.

As for your second question: (0) (Back)Throw -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [3130/2] is basically the first combo that dioxideUniversa showed. I would recommend starting with this one. After you have this one down, you just need to tack on a different starter and loop one part of it and bam, every other corner combo learned.

[Stone Drum]

Which characters can you do the 6c on in the combo:

renka1-kishuu-tsubaki-6A-66-2c-hotaru-double loop-5c-3c

I could've sworn you could do this on every character, but today I ALWAYS blue beat on the j2a on the final 2c-j2a loop. >

answers for extend and cs2 would be appreciated

edit: I think I fixed the problem. I was forgetting the 66 after the tsubaki?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Stone Drum

[Kirbstah]

Ah, thanks. I think sometimes I'm not super jumping. Is it possible to connect 2.C -> J.2A without super jumping? I think that's what I've been doing... /facepalm.

Thanks for all the help XD

[dioxideUniversa]

Super jump is required in most cases, especially for the combos with three loops (the 3 star ones.) IIRC you may be able to do the throw combo without super jumps, but it being a possibility is not a good reason for not developing a tool you're going to need. Normal jumps don't move you far enough forward to offset the pushback from hitting them into the corner with j.2a without an air dash in the BnBs. They also get knocked up too high by the 3rd rep.

Edited February 4, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[Stone Drum]

Super jump is required in most cases, especially for the combos with three loops (the 3 star ones.) IIRC you may be able to do the throw combo without super jumps, but it being a possibility is not a good reason for not developing a tool you're going to need. Normal jumps don't move you far enough forward to offset the pushback from hitting them into the corner with j.2a without an air dash in the BnBs. They also get knocked up too high by the 3rd rep.

yes, it is possible to double loop corner combos without any super jumps. Also, you can do a triple loop off of just a double renka, but the timing can be strict.

[Wander]

What do you mean by double renka

[Stone Drum]

What do you mean by double renka

I just meant a single renka that you hit with both kicks. Renka(2). In many combos, you cancel the first renka hit with a kishuu or something else. This is called a renka(1) because you only hit with the first kick before you cancel into another move.

Here I made a video demonstration: http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eEnL6egqPY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Note that you can only do this 3rd loop if you spend at least 2 Magatama, or off a counter hit, say a counter hit 2c on an opponent in the air etc

Edited February 5, 2012 by Stone Drum

[IndigoNovember]

Shouldn't you just call it a "full" Renka, since you aren't canceling Renka but letting the move run to completion? Or you could just call it Renka(2). Calling it a double Renka made me think you were doing two Renka's in one combo @__@ .

[Stone Drum]

i just call it a renka2. not really sure why I said double renka. wasnt paying attention.

Anyway, does anyone know the most damaging 8MT combo in extend? (non-mugen)

[itsme]

It still might be something like 6C(f) > Gold Burst x2 > sj Tsubaki > ad > f.j2C > 2C > sj j2C > Tsubaki > ad > f.j2C > 2C > sj j2C > Hotaru > jc > f.j2C > 5C* > 2C > corner dust loop. Corner only and does like 10k+ I think. Don't know if you make enough meter back to add anything at the end because of the new 90 frames penalty compared to CS2's 180 frames.

*I don't know if it does work but maybe 5C can be replaced with 6A so you can go 6A > 5C > 2C for more damage (?)

A more practical combo might be Hotaru(f) > IAD > f.j2C > 2C > sj j2C > Tsubaki > ad > f.j2C > 5C > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 6C > 66** 2C > sj j2A > f.j2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > corner dustloop.

**The step is only possible if you can put in a level 2 6C (I think). I think it keeps the combo stable though I know it's still possible to do it without the step.

This is all me theorizing though so I don't know if it works or not, just combining stuff I knew from CS2 and some stuff I know that's in CSE.

Edited February 5, 2012 by itsme

[Stone Drum]

It still might be something like 6C(f) > Gold Burst x2 > sj Tsubaki > ad > f.j2C > 2C > sj j2C > Tsubaki > ad > f.j2C > 2C > sj j2C > Hotaru > jc > f.j2C > 5C* > 2C > corner dust loop. Corner only and does like 10k+ I think. Don't know if you make enough meter back to add anything at the end because of the new 90 frames penalty compared to CS2's 180 frames.

*I don't know if it does work but maybe 5C can be replaced with 6A so you can go 6A > 5C > 2C for more damage (?)

A more practical combo might be Hotaru(f) > IAD > f.j2C > 2C > sj j2C > Tsubaki > ad > f.j2C > 5C > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 6C > 66** 2C > sj j2A > f.j2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > corner dustloop.

**The step is only possible if you can put in a level 2 6C (I think). I think it keeps the combo stable though I know it's still possible to do it without the step.

This is all me theorizing though so I don't know if it works or not, just combining stuff I knew from CS2 and some stuff I know that's in CSE.

Oh my b, I meant no bursts as well. Just your standard 8 mt corner bnb. I know an 8k 8mt combo, but I ask because I don't know the specifics on the 6c-6a and number of loops you can do in extend. I know in cs2 this combo is probably the most damaging 8mt combo:

Starter-renka1-kishuu-tsubaki-6c-2c-hotaru-fj2c-5c-2c-sj2a-j2c-2c-sj2a-j2a-AD-j2a-jc-5c-3c

In extend, I'm not sure if you can add the 3rd loop to this combo, or when to do 6a's etc, or if this string is even the most damaging 8mt string in extend. I guess I'll just wait until I can experiment with extend to find out

I have one last question for now. Sorry if I'm asking too many things. Can anyone give tips on the reverse position combo starter-enma-IAD-j2a-jc? I've only been able to land this combo once, the first time I ever tried to do it. Whenever I IAD into j2a, I pass through the opponent and the j2a whiffs on the other side of the opponent.

And what are other efficient combos for position reversals?

Edited February 6, 2012 by Stone Drum

[itsme]

All I know from watching vids are that you can stick 6A to do 6A > 5C > 2C in the corner dust loop by doing 6A after the first f.j2C. Also, you're most likely inputting j2A too slow if you're going through and whiffing them. Another corner reversal combo I like to use is:

CH 3C > 2B > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 6C* > Enma > 2C > corner dust loop.

*This can be substituted with 2C > jB > j2A > whatever if you don't have that extra mag for the Enma. I also think you can do the 6C route without Enma and going straight to 2C though I don't know how stable the combo will be without it; the addition of jB j2A gatling might help here too though I don't know for sure.

[Stone Drum]

thank you! Also, I can't seem to input the j2a any faster.. And I think you meant gurren instead of enma, but thanks. Big help

[itsme]

Yeah it's Guren. I keep hitting blank when I have to name that special....

EDIT: Also, maybe you're IAD-ing too slow?

[IndigoNovember]

Pretty sure he's just IAD-ing too slow. The dashing through the opponent but whiffing J.2a is what happens if you do it too slow. If you IAD as soon as you are in the air, you should still dash through the opponent, but J.2a will land.

[Stone Drum]

Is IAd 96 or is it 29566?