[CSE] Hakumen Q & A: New players check here first

[kotokot]

there is thread for mixups http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12656-CS2-EX-Oki-Mix-up-and-Set-ups-Thread :<

generally i use frametraps on midscreen and sometimes kishuu/gurren/renka/zantetsu, in corner i use everything i remember=)

[keinight]

there is thread for mixups http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12656-CS2-EX-Oki-Mix-up-and-Set-ups-Thread :<

generally i use frametraps on midscreen and sometimes kishuu/gurren/renka/zantetsu, in corner i use everything i remember=)

what is frametraps ?

[dioxideUniversa]

Guren is best thought of as being +1 on block, especially for pressure. Because it has 3 active frames, if you hit them on the first active frame (which you are going to if you're using it in a block string in most cases,) they will begin their recovery on that frame while you have to wait for the rest of the active frames + the 15 recovery frames.

It's best to check the frame data (for future reference here for CS:E if and when you pick it up) and look at the frame advantage value, which always assumes the attack has connected on the first active frame. You would be correct in assuming that if you hit them on the last active frame of Guren, it would be +3. This is only so useful in live play, however.

Especially if you're planning on picking up Extend, I'd advise against getting in the habit of using 6A for frame traps a lot, as it's even on block now (-3 if they IB, which is bad news in most cases.) In CS2, it will catch mashers if you throw out a jab after it, however.

Keep in mind 5a is also +3. If you can get it, use it. It will whiff on most crouchers, tho.

Kotokot's link might be useful for you to skim through (though I brought the discussion here since I felt the question was basic, whereas I'd reserve the thread for higher level discussion.)

frametraps

A frame trap is basically baiting someone into pushing a button when it's a bad idea for them to do so. CS2 6a example: It's +3, and someone who does not realize it's +3 might hit 5a and not realize that your 5a will always get there faster.

Edited February 28, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[keinight]

Thanks

[Isuna]

Not exactly sure how it's related to using 2c super jump in combos

I mean it is not like I can wait to see 2C hit the opponent, then input 529. Better to input before you see the 2C come out.

However, you can't jump cancel Hakumen's 2c on block, so inputting the superjump isn't going to matter on block anyway; but you have to be ready to switch gears and spend meter if they block it since it's very unsafe.

I would not use 2C outside the dustloop, I am not that good at anti-airing : p

Keysticks scare me, but their strengths have such allure...

As I am more of a computer player than a console player, I just feel it fits me more. : 3

[Judgemastar]

I have a lot of trouble playing Hakumen. My biggest problems are block strings and advancing. If I find myself with 8 magatama, should I go for the mugen combo (6D something) or kishuu my way over to my opponent what should I do with full magatama and how should I get in? Another problem I have is everyone flying under my j5C. Should I try doing j2A more? And I know everyone likes to burst Zantetsu, and when I try to bait the burst, they either didn't burst, or I get blown out of kishuu. What's a great way to bait bursts after that confirm without dropping the combo?

[dioxideUniversa]

Betting on Mugen in live play is never a great idea because your intentions become extremely projected. Using Kishuu to approach and spending the meter on pressure is a much better option. It's never a good thing to be sitting on 8 stars because your static meter gain is going to waste.

Which combos are you having issues with j.C, corner or midscreen? Usually that is caused by them falling too low which typically happens because the AD j.2a did not come out early enough, but a couple of other factors in corner combos can also influence it.

Will have to look into Zantetsu burst bait options, but in general it's not the most burst-safe attack. I am thinking if you do Zantetsu(1) and then Kishuu into 2d, you can possibly catch their burst, but would have to see how the numbers line up with that (plus you'd have to be fairly certain that they're going to burst it, as Zantetsu(1) Kishuu will not combo into anything when no burst happens.)

[Judgemastar]

Betting on Mugen in live play is never a great idea because your intentions become extremely projected. Using Kishuu to approach and spending the meter on pressure is a much better option. It's never a good thing to be sitting on 8 stars because your static meter gain is going to waste.

Which combos are you having issues with j.C, corner or midscreen? Usually that is caused by them falling too low which typically happens because the AD j.2a did not come out early enough, but a couple of other factors in corner combos can also influence it.

Will have to look into Zantetsu burst bait options, but in general it's not the most burst-safe attack. I am thinking if you do Zantetsu(1) and then Kishuu into 2d, you can possibly catch their burst, but would have to see how the numbers line up with that (plus you'd have to be fairly certain that they're going to burst it, as Zantetsu(1) Kishuu will not combo into anything when no burst happens.)

I have problems with any combo involving j.B, j.A, 2C that part is really hard to get to connect and I just don't know where to compensate in the combo to make it work. like, Renka, Kishuu, 66, 2C, j.B, j.2A, AD, j.B, j.A, 2C and so on. That part is really hard for me.

[kotokot]

it's easy, just do j.B low as you can. In Renka, Kishuu, 66, 2C, j.B, j.2A, AD, j.B, j.A, 2C you must delay j.B, j.2A, j.B and j.A=)

if j.C whiffs use j.A/j.B when you above your opponent and hotaru when you below your opponent. Or airthrow.

Mugen is for killing your opponent with 1 combo after 6D/Throw/3C/AA in corner. Either if he have burst you have additional 4k dmg from shippu, either without burst for ~8k full combo. Or you can bet all on zero and try burst bait in mugen.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Relax guys...

*Puts on shades*

I got this

My biggest problems are block strings and advancing.

You don't need to advance all the time in every matchup, you build meter as you stay still so you can honestly stay still until you have enough magatama to hurt them. Hakumen can pretty much hurt you from anywhere on the screen ESPECIALLY in the corner as of csex. Probably his best BB version so far.

If I find myself with 8 magatama,

Which is a good thing, but I'm also guessing you have under 35% health when this happens. If that's the case your approach should be more cautious.

should I go for the mugen combo

No. the only person here who uses mugen combos is Walljumpman, and even he doesn't pull off mugen combos. You have to be an execution god for them. And hands of steel. And if your opponent has a burst count on them bursting when you start your combo and running away from you as you run out of meter coupled with having no life left (most likely) and they can thus go in for the kill.

(6D something)

6d stuff for what? Empty 6d on stuff is mostly used to prevent block stuff from moves, creates a deterrent on your opponent's approach since if they run in they'll get caught and eat damage.

or kishuu my way over to my opponent what should I do with full magatama and how should I get in?

I honestly love kishuu and consider it insanely good since cs2, let alone in extend where it has projectile invincibility and its hitbox is only his feet. Though you should use this move sparringly since it eats your stars, if you see your opponent trying to play ground footsies with you then I would say use it. But you have multiple ways of approaching most of the cast.

Another problem I have is everyone flying under my j5C.

When using jc, you want to do it at the lowest height possible otherwise you'll get AA'd, more use things such as empty jumps and jb occasionally which will make your jumping attack choices less telegraphed because your opponent will be afraid of eating a CH combo into the corner.

Should I try doing j2A more?

No, this moves main use other than combos is to cut projectiles in the air due to its startup speed hitbox and recovery.

And I know everyone likes to burst Zantetsu, and when I try to bait the burst, they either didn't burst, or I get blown out of kishuu. What's a great way to bait bursts after that confirm without dropping the combo?

Watch Japanese hakumen players, you'll notice after they do kishuu they wait for a split second before going for 2c and continuing their combos. Kishuu goes further and faster than its cs1 incarnation. So you have a lot of time to do 2c before they recover. Should they burst you'll recover just in time to IB the burst and combo them. In the case of Zantetsu they still eat pretty much all the damage since most of the damage is in the first hit. But if you want to bait bursts with zantetsu you ideally want to have 4 magatama for kishuu.

I hope that helped

[kotokot]

mugen combos aren't that hard. Nobody uses this because it's very rare to have 8 magatamas, 6D/corner starter and opponent without bursts and less 6k hp left/with burst and less than 4k hp left. If you don't kill with mugen, than you have no magatamas for 10 seconds.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Those reasons as well. I think Mugen would be more viable if it either lasted longer, or only cost 4 magatama, or had less recovery after it's startup invincibility. I mean I think it's the least viable of all the power ups in the game.

[Judgemastar]

I hope that helped

GOD YES, THANK YOU

[W.E.M.P.]

Is it normal to want to bash your face into your arcade stick while trying to get used to hakumen/2d fighters in general.

I finally got this game after been spouting how i want to play, and I love it and can tell i am getting better at learning my little noobie fundamentals, but its almost like i am more technically sound at the beginning of my training and it gets harder the longer i practice, for as silly as that sounds. My xbl is gone since i am a poor man, aside from training mode, is it better to just play humans once a week at our weekly arcade meetup ( and whenever i can get people to come over ) or is there any merit in fighting computers at all ( to get used to trying to perform combos under pressure, getting better at countering, etc. , etc. ) or would that do more harm than good??

[Sophisticat]

It takes time, man. Just keep at it.

It's much better to play vs. humans. The computer can help you learn how other characters work, but only matching against people can you become good.

There are, imo, only three things to learn as an FG player:

1) Your character.

2) The matchup.

3) The other guy.

First on is all about getting down the mechanics of your character and getting to a point where stuff is second nature to you. Practice, practice, practice.

Second one is about learning how to use these tools effectively against certain characters. Sometimes it's bad to use 4c (Plat, Ragna), sometimes it's good to abuse it (Tager).

But the real game starts only once you get around to playing the player. The rest is just stuff that should be muscle memory. All automatic responses that capitalize on your decisions. So what you need to do here is to find ways to get in hits. Play mind games, don't be too predictable, and run some strategies in your head. Here it's all about exploiting what they're doing wrong. If they're playing really well, then switch it up and see if you can't run some tricks by them.

Just practice! It takes a good year or two before getting good, so don't give up!

[W.E.M.P.]

thanks for the amazing advice ! :3

[W.E.M.P.]

Hey currently learning this started: CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren -> HOP Juggle [2556/1.5]

I have no clue what HOP Juggle is, or HOP is in general >.>

[mAc Chaos]

This is why I don't like all those placeholders.

Hop means just hop forward. Haku's dash. You do Gurren and then hop forward and start an aerial combo that has Haku ascend like he's going up a stepladder.

I'm not sure which juggle that's referring to, but the classic always was:

3C > 2B > Gurren > hop 5A > j.A > j.B, j.2A > j.C.

You do j.A and j.B in your first jump, and j.2A > j.C in the second jump.

[NeonCrusader]

Hop's just Hakumen's dash forward. Juggle probably refers to (5A/5B/2C) > jB j2A > airdash > jB jA > etc

[mAc Chaos]

Or that.

By the way, when you say you "got this game," which version do you mean?

Edited March 18, 2012 by mAc Chaos

[W.E.M.P.]

the newest one, extend :3

and thanks a lot for the help!! :D

[Stone Drum]

that brings up a question. Is the old 1mt combo off of a ch3c- (2b-gurren-hop-5a-6a-5a-j2a-AD-j2a-jc) still doable, and is it the most viable 1 mt ch3c combo in extend, after you add in the jb's before the j2a's that is?

[Spark]

No 6A pushes them too far for 5A follow up in that combo. The usual 3C CH combo is 3C > 2B > 214A > 66 > (delay depending on height) 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD > j.B > j.A > 2C > j.2A > AD > j.2A > j.C.

[JohnnyboySP]

Does this still work in Extend? (Sorry if that is addressed elsewhere)

Just bought the Vita version (I'm a BlazBlue noob) and I'm considering Hakumen as a main and I'll be trying to learn some of his combos.

Edited March 29, 2012 by JohnnyboySP

[mAc Chaos]

Yes it works for Extend.

Can't you also do the usual Renka (1) > 623A combo off 3C?