[CS1] Tsubaki Yayoi - General Discussion 2.0

[Airk]

She almost seems to have MORE different types of specials than the majority of the cast, except, you know, they're bad. I wanted her to be a character where in order to keep your pressure going, you have to be able to rapidly choose which version of her moves to use, like her 214x's depending on how far away they are, or have different angles on her j.214's... The problem is, all of her moves suck in some way. Most are too slow on startup, the DP has no invulnerability, etc. If they fixed it so her specials weren't so ridiculously awful that'd be a nice improvement.

yup. On all counts. I remain a little bit baffled by how LITTLE a lot of her moves pick up by using a charge.

Hahahaha, from what I hear about how long it took to balance GG, I might have to disagree with you on that. Although I do agree that we don't REALLY know all the changes they made to Tsubaki, because so few people actually play her. Still, ain't looking good. Ah well, at least they're fixing Rachel....

I am given vague hope by the fact that there were no (reported) changes for Tsubaki in Loctest 4. This means that either:

A) No one with any clue about Tsubaki played her during this loctest (supports the 'we have no idea what they changed' hypothesis)

B) They completely gave up on trying to improve her and just threw up their hands a week early (seems unlikely, considering.)

or

C) They're pleased with what they accomplished, and feel she's balanced against the rest of the cast. (_also_ supports the 'we have no idea what they changed' hypothesis. Amoung other things.)

So this obviously doesn't mean the world will magically be a good and happy place, and there will probably be some issues remaining, but whether those issues will be crippling compared to the new, less powerful overall roster is far from decided.

[STenSatsu]

I highly doubt she'll be worse off in CS2. It's really just a question of how much her matchups will improve.

[Zeromus_X]

So what methods do you guys use to condition the opponent to block? I'm having a really hard time preventing people from just mashing out of her strings (online or off). It seems like such a chore to get in only to get mashed out of whatever offense I tried to set up and having my crappy normals whiff if they hold back and barrier...

Right now I've been using 5B into 3C or 6C then jumping away or 22C cause I'm too afraid to really go any deeper into the string and I hardly ever seem close enough for her other normals to not whiff. Occasionally I'll get a 22D unblockable or charge cancel into kara throw off but I'd like to actually be close enough to do "real" blockstrings.

[STenSatsu]

If they are just mashing normals you can delay the gatling into 5c and try and CH them into 6c for good damage. If they are mashing reversals then you'll have to JC and block or CC and block and then punish with ch 5c>6c>damage. In Tager's case you just have to spam 5b and only 5b till you get lucky with a 22d unblockable or they flinch. Tager is really fucking boring. Slayer v Pot 2.0.

[BatousaiJ]

So what methods do you guys use to condition the opponent to block? I'm having a really hard time preventing people from just mashing out of her strings (online or off). It seems like such a chore to get in only to get mashed out of whatever offense I tried to set up and having my crappy normals whiff if they hold back and barrier...

Right now I've been using 5B into 3C or 6C then jumping away or 22C cause I'm too afraid to really go any deeper into the string and I hardly ever seem close enough for her other normals to not whiff. Occasionally I'll get a 22D unblockable or charge cancel into kara throw off but I'd like to actually be close enough to do "real" blockstrings.

There are certain things you can do to avoid that.

Here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c6wRmlwBNw&feature=sub

Watch the 6:20 mark, the bang match.

That's a good example of how to lock players down from jab spamming with things like charge cancel and delayed secondary hits of 5B/2B, relay jabbing, etc.

It's not applicable to every character obviously but it's a good strat for punishing those jab happy folks and make them block which in turn should set you up for more opporunities for 22D unblockable/kara throw gimmicks.

Also, this goes out to everyone but you should check out the throw reject miss tactics thread in the general section and add it to their repertoire. It's a good way to get throws off on people who are expecting to get thrown.

[Kirbeh]

http://bb.mizuumi.net/wiki/Tsubaki_Yayoi

Hey guys, did a write up on Tsubaki. Do you guys have stuff you could add? Especially for combos and strats

[BatousaiJ]

http://bb.mizuumi.net/wiki/Tsubaki_Yayoi

Hey guys, did a write up on Tsubaki. Do you guys have stuff you could add? Especially for combos and strats

Go ahead and add her frame data http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/frameData/tsubaki.html

That should be easy enough to put in there along with everything that's there.

I'd help with strats and combos but when patch hits there are going to be a lot of changes so I wouldn't put too much time in it just yet.

[uglyloli]

This is a bit odd, but does anyone know if there's a video out there of the joystick execution for Tsubaki's 214x -> 22x ? I've been trying for months, hours in training mode, read the advice in the Tsubaki FAQ thread, watched the demo vid over and over and OVER again... For the life of me I can't do it.

I'm otherwise starting to get fairly respectable with Tsubaki -I'm easily pulling off the 6cc-> sjc -> j.C stuff - except for this one HUGE flaw in my game. I'm at my wits' end as to what to do about it aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.

[iamkitkatbar]

You just do it right after you put in the 214 START putting in the 22x motion

All you need to do is find the timing of it

[uglyloli]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh I just realized I should've posted that in the Tsubaki Combo Thread hurrrrrrrrr

I keep hearing that, but I almost never get it. I do the 22x almost immediately after the 214 but nothing comes out.

Anyway, thanks. I'm going to go read the combo thread, see if anything's helpful, and if not start whining in there: P

[BatousaiJ]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh I just realized I should've posted that in the Tsubaki Combo Thread hurrrrrrrrr

I keep hearing that, but I almost never get it. I do the 22x almost immediately after the 214 but nothing comes out.

Anyway, thanks. I'm going to go read the combo thread, see if anything's helpful, and if not start whining in there: P

Why not just forgo the 214 in the BnB all together and go straight for 236B -> 22C ?

Actually not using 214 in the BnB has its benefits in knockdown town and some oki options/damage corner as well.

Very situational but missing out on the minimum of damage/heat gain off a singular 214 is nothing compared to not 22 finishing your combo for that precious charge time.

Still, there's no real reason why you're having a tough time doing it. Just goto practice mode, do the motions of 236 -> 214 -> 22 until you get it right and then just remember the timing and do it the same way over and over again.

Until you get it down flat though, I suggest just opting for the 236 -> 22 link for now.

[Airk]

What I do, and it seems to work, though I think I have slow hands is basically, I input all the motions in one smooth stream. There's very little 'visual feedback' - I definitely DO NOT wait for the 214 to come out before I start inputting the 22x. Sometimes I end up doing it a little too fast and the 214x gets skipped and I go straight from the 236 to the 22, but as mentioned, that's not really a huge crisis.

Maybe that is helpful, maybe it is not.

[pktazn]

^ That. I used to have the same exact problem, you just have to input it and don't wait till you see it on screen. It's really hard to explain though because once you get it down, it just sorta happens. Learning how your stick reads inputs as well helps. For example, I THINK I'm doing the 214 motion but really my stick is reading it as something else, so in training mode it might help if you turn on the option to see what you're inputting as well.

It doesn't come out all the time for me because I haven't exactly been practicing for a while but when it does, at least it all connects now lol.

[pktazn]

Double post ftw. Changes so far in the loketest (in case anyone is too lazy to look at the loketest thread haha):

Tsubaki

+ 5B is stronger, can be used as anti air.

+ 22C > 214D is possible.

- j.D's charging speed is the same as it was in CS1.

5B stronger makes me happy (if this change sticks), BUT WHAT ABOUT HER FOLLOW UP D:

[Airk]

Yeah, it's getting kinda stupid. 5B is already her best normal. Stop buffing it! It doesn't need help! It's all the REST of her normals that need to be better.

[Kiba]

+ 5B can be used as anti air.

The funny thing is that this could even be done right now, although I guess they made it more viable.

Yeah, it's getting kinda stupid. 5B is already her best normal. Stop buffing it! It doesn't need help! It's all the REST of her normals that need to be better.

I have to agree with this. 5B didn't need a damage increase tbh. I wouldve really been happy if they just buffed her other normals. I'm not expecting much from her tbh...

[BatousaiJ]

5B as an anti air sounds some what interesting... I wonder if they added some head invincibility to it but still, I think making the 5B air unblockable would've been more helpful instead of 5C since Tsu's 2C is already a great anti-air move.

the 22C->214D is actually quite exciting news meaning we once again have a 1 charge combo most likely capable of doing around 2.5-3.5k damage.

Before this we had to go for 22D->236D for pick up midscreen but if we can just slide them with 22C and gatling into 214D, that's should easily lead into a BnB air combo(5BB-> 5CC -> 236B -> 22C -> 214D ->2CC -> air BnB).

We won't know what will work with what but more untechable time and D gatling from 22C will be huge if it is as I think it is even in block strings given you take away a primer in the block string and then continue by crossing someone over 236D to continue pressure. Given how much bigger guard primers/breaks will play a part in the new revision, this is certainly something to look forward to.

As for jD being back to the way it was, that's fine with me given how jD defintely shouldn't be your goto way to get charge in the first place especially given your vulnerability while in the air and the moment you land.

[Ginseng]

Do they mean 5B is considered air-unblockable (without barrier of course)? If that's so, that's a pretty big deal.

22C > 214D is possible but I don't know if it's better than 22D > 6C in the corner. We'll have to see about that. Also, I updated the combo thread. Merely because I only checked it due to forgetting my own combos..and realizing that I didn't put some stuff in....:Þ

EDIT: I meant barrier, silence people!

[shtkn]

"without IB"? they got rid of that in CS1.

[STenSatsu]

Thought all B and C moves for everyone were considered air-unblockable now, or did they revert that?

[sakabato24]

Hey guys, I'm a bit new to this thread, but not new to the DL forums themselves. I'm just dropping by here to at least introduce myself as a Tsubaki mainer. I really feel like getting out of lurk-mode and start posting more for the community, and to learn more on how to play a better Tsubaki. Understandably, CSII is coming out pretty soon, so I am looking forward to at least learning how she will be in CSII.

Anywho, I hope to post here more soon.

~Saka

[BatousaiJ]

Thought all B and C moves for everyone were considered air-unblockable now, or did they revert that?

My understanding was only select moves in character's arsenal. Just the same as before but everyone's basically getting the property added to more of their existing moves.

Fairly certainly it won't be for all B/C moves.

[Stray Inu]

Thought all B and C moves for everyone were considered air-unblockable now, or did they revert that?

That was actually a mistake in the translation, sadly enough. It was that each character now had A B and A C move that was AUB, at the least.

[STenSatsu]

Ah, k.

[pktazn]

Found some more Tsubaki changes that weren't in the first post:

- Tsubasa follow-up has a sharp angle, difficult to hit with.

- D-wings knocks opponent directly down for a slide down, but D-Hikari won't hit some characters.

- 3CC can float opponents high, but cannot be followed up if Tsubaki has no gauge.

EDIT: They're now on the front page of the loketest thread but when I posted it wasn't there xD

EDIT 2: Hiago's translation of the blogger's summary on Tsubaki.

●ツバキ

細かいところで色々強化を貰って、細かいところで色々弱くされてる

とはいえやっぱり強くなりました

牽制手段や崩しが増え、ゲージを溜めやすくなったって時点でCSとか鼻で笑っちゃうレベルに

あとはその他の細かい技の使い道の模索になるか

Tsubaki

She received many buffs in small stuff, and she received many nerfs in some little things as well. (?)

But indeed she is stronger than before.

(Someone else translate this one.)

(Something about the usage method of some of her little stuff.)