[CS1] Litchi vs Hakumen

[Lord Knight]

General Matchup:

This matchup is less annoying than CT in some ways, more annoying in other ways. It's important to have momentum and keep it.

Fullscreen neutral:

-Keep the staff

-Try to stay just at the tip of IAD j.C range

Midscreen neutral:

-2B[m], 3C[m] are your friends

-Walk back 2C[m] is a decent AA

-5A will beat a poorly spaced jC

-If they jump away/around mindlessly, hit them with ItsuuA

Pressure:

-IB the 6A, hold 7. 3C will whiff, 2A will whiff, Renka will whiff, and you will automatically stand block the 6B.

-Beware of dash Tsubaki (3 stars)

-Beware of dash Hotaru (2 stars)

-In this matchup especially, don't preemptively use OS throw.

-J2A gives an extra attack, and keep an eye out for jC/j2C > tsubaki.

Litchi's pressure:

-Against D mashing, just 6A[m]. Get your FC.

-5A hits him on crouch block. It's +3 on block.

-5A > 2B or 3C for low mixup. 5A > 6A for high. 5A > dash throw.

-Definitely Daisharin 138xxx

-Don't use Kokushi, he can Yukikaze/2D.

[Cooldudenotu]

I am having a lot of problems with this match up.

The hakumen I play against always seems to out range / poke me. Once he gets in I don't know what to throw out because I keep on getting countered each time I do anything besides block.

Any insight on this match up is appreciated,

Thank you.

[Spud]

This matchup is like hell for me. Seems like everything I do he does better.

[Dator]

I treat this match up like i do tager.

He has the range with his new poke and if you get a hakumen that sits back and poke use your 6b follow up with 6c and take away a guard, i think he only has 7 but its pretty easy to break if your doing this. He might get frustrated by your 6c and when he does jump in 2c. When he's in on you watch the overhead.

[Cooldudenotu]

I treat this match up like i do tager.

He has the range with his new poke and if you get a hakumen that sits back and poke use your 6b follow up with 6c and take away a guard, i think he only has 7 but its pretty easy to break if your doing this. He might get frustrated by your 6c and when he does jump in 2c. When he's in on you watch the overhead.

I'm able to poke him at times, but it seems he has more range then we do. Am I correct or incorrect with this? I guess I haven't tested, it's just the impression I got from all of my hakumen matches (I've played him a LOT).

If our 6B out ranges him I will abuse it to no end, but I tried to abuse it already and it didn't go so well. Most hakumens I can beat but I have one friend that I cannot take out (I'm talking hours of losing).

[severin]

I treat this match up like i do tager.

He has the range with his new poke and if you get a hakumen that sits back and poke use your 6b follow up with 6c and take away a guard, i think he only has 7 but its pretty easy to break if your doing this. He might get frustrated by your 6c and when he does jump in 2c. When he's in on you watch the overhead.

Quick thing.

Autopiloting to 6C is bad against hakumen. If he instant blocks the 6C, he can get his choice of a free 4C, Gurren, or Kishuu > Enma if his execution is flawless. (this is all dependent on range)

[Spud]

Hakumen's 4C eats my 6B or 6C every time. Who has the advantage in the range game?

[kenn305]

Did anyone try poking hakumen with 2B. I will test if 2B can beat his 4C and maybe after a counter hit it can link to itsuu C and combo...... 2b can combo into itsuu C but only in mid to close range of the poke.....and I believe you can IAD over his 4C as well but I will try to confirm both my statements.......and 7C is maybe important in this match up.

[kenn305]

2B works at the tip of his 4C and combos into itsuu B and iad works too

[Cooldudenotu]

None of this information in the thread has helped me, this matchup seems impossible from my end.

Litchi is out ranged, and out powered (he does over 3K in 3 hits??? c'mon). Whenever i try to mount some type of offense the guy I play uses his drive and I just get countered (I hate playing characters that punish you for being aggressive).

Can anyone with real experience against hakumen please give some insight on this matchup?

Thank you.

[DJHUOSHEN]

First off, figure out how drive happy they are. Some Hakus don't even drive, they just focus on combos, so that should allow you to put out more solid pressure. His pokes out range you, but not by much. You can use the staff to get in close. I suggest D launch not 2D launch, because he can generate his void spheres off of the staff if he nails it, which makes it hard to approach. From there, throw some random Itsuu stances. If he 4Cs long range, ItsuuB will counter hit him after you autoblock with Itsuu and you can follow for damage. If he jumps in, IB and either grab or counterhit.

It should be noted that on the ground you can still mix up and make his drive ineffective. Also, if he wants to distortion counter you, if you let the staff launch hit his counterstance, super jump over his counter animation to avoid damage (If this was fixed in CS I apologize). Also, if he spams drives, throw more grabs until he changes his mind. Don't fall into total temptation to counter him after his block string, that's usually his ideal time to throw a drive up. All it takes to beat that, is a semi-pause before your counter. He cannot spam drive and take care of everything.

Here's a few references from my fights. Maybe not the best, but it does show my approach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ih242LbM74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UaaAbXI_YA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPN84AyBKqc

[ATGMantenbo]

From my experience:

Assess what kind of Hakumen are you playing against; there are mainly two types, the ones that spam D when they smell an attack coming and the ones that are careful with their counters and use them in almost guaranteed spots like after IBing or something.

if your opponent is the D spamming type, all you have to do is bait and punish ... do empty jumps then throws and (5/2A)n then throw .. i'm sure you get the idea.

you need to make him scared of using his counters, after the point where he's afraid to use counters, begin rushing him down

play mostly a zoning game; 2B is great if spaced correctly, try to hit it randomly and sparingly .. if it hits, then hitconfirm it to 6B and start a combo.

random itsuu stances work too; counter 4C with itsuuB then big combo and counter jumps and IAD with itsuuA

launching the staff is not bad

2C AntiAir is really good in this match if he's trying to get in by IADing. use 5A instead if he's too close and you feel 2C would get countered.

[Lord Knight]

4C is nothing to worry about, he doesn't get much off of it on hit or CH. If you're really worried about it, 2B[m] and 3C[m] are both good answers.

Itsuu is all right in this match.

5A also hits Hakumen crouching, this move is +3 on block (great for us).

Rising jB[m] is instant overhead on Hakumen, this makes 2A > rising jB, 5b > rising jB or even dash up rising jB all solid attack options on him (of course, you'll need 50 meter to RC j2D).

Kokushi is terrible against him, he can counter it for free.

There is a really specifc range (maybe 1 and a half character lengths away) where Litchi iad back jC[m] is really good against him and will beat all his aerials clean.

The main thing is that he really does outrange you - Litchi needs to get in a range where he pokes actually reach to take control of the match.

[kenn305]

That's pretty much it. Avoid corners unless it's his back against it because both chars can do there most damaging -meterless- combo from there. Can hakumen 2D between 5B and 5C? Unless only after an IB after the 5B?

[Spud]

Keep your blockstrings fresh. If you run the same setups again and again, you'll get countered pretty handily.

[Cooldudenotu]

What is Hakumens weakness?

I can't get in or out damage him, it's extremely frustrating to lose to pokes and the whole thing seems like an uphill battle.

Is there anything I can do besides "mixup blockstrings" and try to make him scared to use his drive?

I can't figure out how to consistantly beat hakumen for the life of me, getting hit with 3 hit 3K combos pisses me off beyond belief.

[kenn305]

Mixing up your blockstring is important!!! This is hakumen. You do not want to be repetitive or you will eat a tasty counter. HakUmen does not have much mix ups and if you played CT then its pretty much the same. Well watch pros play against him on youtube...I can not send you the link ATM...

[Dator]

I have no problem throwing 6c after my 6b just don't do it close to him make sure you got some range and some time he might ib the 6c

 and drive in.  Happened to me once and he got me but the second time I saw it and dp his drive.  I just came from a tourney where I played a good haku we will be playin some online and I will see about getting some vids up on how I play him

[Zenmetsu]

ihold 6b alot

[ZhePrime]

Litchi is out ranged, and out powered (he does over 3K in 3 hits??? c'mon). Whenever i try to mount some type of offense the guy I play uses his drive and I just get countered (I hate playing characters that punish you for being aggressive).

Hakumen uses meter for all of his damaging combos, you don't.

You have the advantage at the start of each round, the longer time you take to advance on him, the more meter he gets and in turn becomes more dangerous.

If you become predictable, you will get countered. Mix up your pressure and attack patterns. If he throws out D's randomly you can punish him for it.

That's pretty much it. Avoid corners unless it's his back against it because both chars can do there most damaging -meterless- combo from there. Can hakumen 2D between 5B and 5C? Unless only after an IB after the 5B?

That's also risky, since from his 2D and j.D he can start a corner combo and from 5D he can throw you into the corner (but not combo you).

You need to be mindful at all times of what you do.

What is Hakumens weakness?

His mixup, pressure and time. His AA game isn't that strong either.

He gets his meter from being defensive (his good defense being one of his strengths).

An overeagerly offensive Hakumen can be punished, a more defensive Hakumen needs to be broken, hence why a good mixup and mindgame is so important.

I can't get in or out damage him, it's extremely frustrating to lose to pokes and the whole thing seems like an uphill battle.

His pokes can be baited, especially his 4C, if you predict it you can IAD over it and go to town.

Is there anything I can do besides "mixup blockstrings" and try to make him scared to use his drive?

Only thing that will stop him from using his drive is unpredictability.

[Spud]

I've been playing this matchup a lot lately, and it's really not that bad. Yes, he has the range advantage. Yes, his combos are stupidly strong. He does NOT have the mixups, pressure, combos, and overall maneuverability that Litchi has. And your combos are even more stupidly strong.

[Zenmetsu]

I felt like I just read a bunch of generalizations.

[Lord Knight]

posted shit

[Nakkiel]

For the OP Hotaru is 2 stars, not 3. Probably just a typo.

Also Hakumen can just 2D x3 against Kokushi Musou, he doesn't need to Yukikaze.