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Blade

Issues with Challenge Mode combos and the System (and adjusting BNBs accordingly)

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I'd like some advice regarding how to proceed learning this game. It just seems like things are a LOT tighter to input in CS than they were in CT. Things like doing Dash 6A (666A) after Carnage Scissors seem rediculously hard to do in some cases, places where they didn't tech in CT, they now seem to.

Spacing seems to be a critical aspect to all combos and determines whether or not you can do one combo or another if you aren't close enough. (Example: Doing Hell's Fang usually results in being forced to use 5B 5C now insteady of being able to use 2C as often).

Some of the characters I'd normally use have changed so dramatically, it's going to take a long time for me to adjust how I play, so I'm wondering if there's a means to absorb all this new information in smaller chunks than what they provide in CS itself. (I've gone through Tutorial except for all the Strategies section).

Also regarding the tighter timing and spacing issues, I think it'll have a major effect on Online play for quite a while, so having more "bite-sized" Bread-N-Butter combos might help to progress (smaller combos that lead into larger ones).

It just seems to me that Challenge Mode combos take a big leap from one combo with barely any hits to a huge combo that takes quite a bit to learn the timing for.

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Don't worry, it's not so much that the game is more difficult, it's just that the system is different. We all need time to adjust. There is no "easy" way to learn, you'll just have to practice until you can't get it wrong.

I tell ya, Hazama was not easy to learn. I'm still flubbing his BnBs after a whole day of practice. Also, Hakumen is very different. :v:

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Good to know I'm not the only one having trouble adjusting to the new things....I got pretty nervous of myself when I was having trouble on other character's #3 challenges....

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Arakune's make a pretty huge jump in difficulty. He starts out simple with normal combos into j.D, and then the classic throw -> D -> air combo, and immediately afterwards is an 80 hit bug loop or some crap like that.

I agree with you on the spacing thing, Lambda's trial 10 requires you to do a combo from 632146D that I'm pretty sure only works if you're a very specific distance away from the opponent.

Dashing after throws, IAD cancel, etc. all seem very sluggish in CS. I could have sworn I was having some sort of input lag with how sluggish some of the inputs feel in this game.

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The issue I have, once again with strict timing and spacing, is that this sort of thing won't be much help at all in Online play. I ended up having to use cheap tactics and throw combos just to win a round or two.

Not saying that lag is guaranteed, in fact I hear it's much better than CT was, but it's still a possible issue that could be simplified if much more simpler combos were used. I had a similar problem with the challenges in Super Street Fighter IV. Sure they're good combos, sure they do good damage, but are they practical?

Several factors I consider when adopting a new combo:

1.How hard is it to learn/memorize physically?

2.What situations can I set up for it to be used?

3.What can I do if by some chance I accidentally "drop" it (flubbed combos)? Even the best of us drop combos we normally could do with ease.

4.What variations can I use in case it gets blocked or only partially hits?

And the list goes on. The point is, if those factors don't help me much, or give me versatility, I tend to not want to use said combo.

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The issue I have, once again with strict timing and spacing, is that this sort of thing won't be much help at all in Online play. I ended up having to use cheap tactics and throw combos just to win a round or two.

Not saying that lag is guaranteed, in fact I hear it's much better than CT was, but it's still a possible issue that could be simplified if much more simpler combos were used. I had a similar problem with the challenges in Super Street Fighter IV. Sure they're good combos, sure they do good damage, but are they practical?

Several factors I consider when adopting a new combo:

1.How hard is it to learn/memorize physically?

2.What situations can I set up for it to be used?

3.What can I do if by some chance I accidentally "drop" it (flubbed combos)? Even the best of us drop combos we normally could do with ease.

4.What variations can I use in case it gets blocked or only partially hits?

And the list goes on. The point is, if those factors don't help me much, or give me versatility, I tend to not want to use said combo.

The Blazblue Combos are almost all practical, the SF4 ones are almost never practical. That said, I noticed that timing got tighter in CS and actually like that. I can't be so lazy anymore. Then again I was more rushing into combos than delaying them too late, so it didn't hurt me too much in the long run. Haven't had a chance to try challenge mode yet though.

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They're not practical if the timing is so strict that if you're one second off you drop a whole 4k. damage D:

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Nah. Everything is fine. I'd rather the scrubs whine like this instead of learning how to do combos. More wins for everyone else because "BnBs aren't practical if I can't do them."

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They're not practical if the timing is so strict that if you're one second off you drop a whole 4k. damage D:

Doesn't Stop Ragna from being a high teir character. Dash Cancelling to 6A has always been one of my banes, but it's necessary for him to do good damage now, especially with Belial Edge. You have to remember, those Challenges are like 10% impractical, 90% necessary to understand how the damn character works in the first place. In Street Fighter 4 the combos weren't practical because crouching jab to super was always more practical than some of that stuff. There is a reason the SF community considers them quirky little fun challenges, rather than a tool for learning bread and butter combos.

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Nah. Everything is fine. I'd rather the scrubs whine like this instead of learning how to do combos. More wins for everyone else because "BnBs aren't practical if I can't do them."

Are you here with intent to troll or not? Just because someone found a BnB hard doesn't give you a right to call them a scrub. At least they're still trying to learn it and at least they're asking how practical it is for use.

God, I swear half of the good players have an inflated ego about themselves.

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A good majority are impractical in the inputs they demand. Like a bunch requiring super jump when it can be performed perfectly with a normal jump. I think overall it's a nice basis to get the idea of what links to what on your character. But yea Blade, keep practicing man. It ain't just you getting use to the timings.

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in real matches when I'm about to drop the combo I can stop mashing C and do my next move

in challenge you have to connect all of them if you're Lambda or Hazama

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God, I swear half of the good players have an inflated ego about themselves.

Speaking of good players with egos, I'd better not see that waste of everyone's time and effort of playing BB. *cough*Bludika*cough*

On the topic at hand, I question Tsubaki's combos as well, cuz the latter half forces me to High Jump Cancel. Unfortunately, hjc'ing is not something I can do with ease right now, making them a waste. But I'll get back to em by the time I'm fluent with Tsubaki.

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Got the game today and took me about an 1 hour 30 min to finish her trials........ Can someone tell me why trial 10 was so much easier then trial number 9? Number nine made me rage so hard -.-

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A good majority are impractical in the inputs they demand. Like a bunch requiring super jump when it can be performed perfectly with a normal jump. I think overall it's a nice basis to get the idea of what links to what on your character. But yea Blade, keep practicing man. It ain't just you getting use to the timings.

Speaking of good players with egos, I'd better not see that waste of everyone's time and effort of playing BB. *cough*Bludika*cough*

On the topic at hand, I question Tsubaki's combos as well, cuz the latter half forces me to High Jump Cancel. Unfortunately, hjc'ing is not something I can do with ease right now, making them a waste. But I'll get back to em by the time I'm fluent with Tsubaki.

OMG thank both of you. I'm adding Tsubaki as my other main, and I was having trouble with her challenges today. ALL of her stuff requires super jump cancel it ridiculous. I breezed through carl's challenges with my eyes closed, but tsubaki's is a struggle, and these are her basic bnbs you'll use all the time. I thought I was just doing something wrong, but man tsu's challenges can get really annoying. The timing on her basic stuff is pretty strict.

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You think that's bad, I haven't done Ragna's challenge mode yet, but I feel like I'm going to be pounding my knee alot when I do. I have only twice gotten a red beat combo with Belial Edge, and I KNOW those are in there...

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challenge combo's practical? GET OUT OF HERE!

seriously challenge mode is designed to help you break that mode of you not being able to combo things worth shit, a mode in which it helps the player understand how the characters special moves or combo's work, not for you to whine about.

all the challenges are made to challenge you, so sure they are hard, sure you can't use them in a real fight in some cases...but keep in mind they are there to get your creative juices pumping and for you to actually have execution skills.

I just typed the same thing...a lot.

5$ get.

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In a nutshell, that's what I was saying SBA, they aren't practical, so I'm wondering if there are smaller more "practical" combos worth learning "based" on them. And even if there aren't, at least knowing how best to deal with timing and such (let alone Carl's combos which are all positional btw). What should I know about CS that is different about CT that makes it tighter? Less recovery frames per move? Do moves have less hitstun? (Not talking about Fatal Counter).

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Well if you want to find the most practical combos, there are always character specific threads.

But I think the character specific challenges do a pretty good job of helping you find out what a character is capable of doing. I've finished the challenges for 6 characters so far and I've noticed that there are always a few combos that start from an anti-air, overhead, or hit-confirmable counter hit. Look at those combos a few times and you'll notice patterns like "this move lets me turn any ground string into that air combo I know how to do" or "finishing a combo this way puts me in a good position." After that, it's just a matter of finding various ways to land those combo fragments you are comfortable performing even in an online environment. For example, Ragna wants to end every combo with belial edge into dash 5d 22c so look for ways to do that.

The good thing about those later challenges is that they really push the combo system to its limit. Like, I didn't know that you could do 4 reps of Noel's 6c 22B 22BC off of fatal counter hit and still end it with the standard chain revolver combo into super. Or that cutting one of Tsubaki's air combos short allows her to do a relaunch. Or the fact that you have to wait a second after Hazama's 6d so that the character moves far enough for 623d to combo into portal super. Those are the kinds of things that you probably can't pull off or learn online but you can if you play and practice a lot locally.

Arcsys did a really good job with the tutorial and challenge mode here. You could never visit a fighting game website and still come out as a fairly knowledgable player just by studying everything Rachel tells you in tutorial mode. They ease you in with a bit of easy stuff for awhile but they actually go on to teach you higher level tactics like option select blocking and baiting a throw reject miss with a jab into purple throw. I wish marvel, 3s, and gg had these kinds of things back when I started playing fighters seriously.

So don't feel bad if you can't do everything because it means you'll be that much better in execution when you can. And take advantage of advance input (holding the button a little to repeat the input for 5 frames) since it removes a lot of the headaches involved with timing and lets you put more emphasis on combo positioning, spacing, and intentional delays.

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Yeah, I know how ya feel. I spent the entire day on Carl's challenge combos. From what I can tell it is just an adjustment problem. Everytime I would try to 3C IAD allecan. I would end up 2Cing or just inputting the allecan completely wrong, I put CT in for two seconds and tried the same exact combos and I did them flawlessly.

I don't mind taking the time to adjust, but it just so damn discouraging when you drop so many combos you could do in your sleep before.

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Playing through challenges made me learn that I'm terrible at doing anything both quickly and accurately. I breezed through all the Tager challenges without too much trouble... and then had more trouble with the second combo in Hazama's mission #3 than I did with Tager's mission #9 or #10. Also, playing Hazama's challenges at all has made me realize that his snakes have some really weird property I need ask about on the Hazama forums...

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Thanks _kro, that's an encouraging thought, I think the difficulty I have isn't just timing and button presses, but also being in the right position at the right time. Little things like going neutral after a combo input instead of dashing forwards, or doing Ragna's one combo 6B 5C Carnage Scissors d.6A (I have a hard time determining when I regain control after CS), and the timing at the end of that combo to do Hell's Fang as I either wait too long or do it too fast. Breaking old mental habits (like trying to mash 6464 when Jin freezes you...I know everyone still does it instinctively).

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Hey I feel you man. I worked on Ragna's challenges for like 6 hours yesterday and was still unable to get past a few of them. I still can't 22C after 5D, Im not sure why. I recently switched from analog to D-pad (on dual shock) for faster dashes and high jumps, but I'm having a hard time pulling off half circles, and even quarter circles sometimes.

The timing is just so strict on the later combos. Thanks to Kro for mentioning advanced input, I totally forgot about that. Im gonna have to start using it.

I'll just gonna keep brute forcing the challenges until muscle memory takes care of everything hehe. It is frustrating though.

edit: 5d not 6d -.-

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I hate Jin's mission 8, fuck. That. SHIT. 623C counter>dash5B..... WTF?!!! I swear.... it's not possible, on normal hit the enemy can tech BEFORE you recover, and CH doesn't add much, plus a dash... the frame math is retarded....

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^^Try to input 22C during 5D animation.

I keep trying to roll and cancel into a special, and wondering why the special won't come out lol...this game also feels a bit...stiffer? for some reason than CT. I'll get used to it eventually I suppose.

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