[CS1] Iron Tager Vs Makoto

[OrionXElite]

She can use her orb(no punch) for pressure. I don't actually know how well it works cause I've only seen one guy do it online and due to lag, I couldn't do a fucking thing. But offline, if she does that, you can just try and IB her 5B>5CC>whatever as there are gaps for doing IB 360A/720. I'm gonna look into her pressure later. I WAS going to main her in addition to Tager until I learned about the parry loop and just thought "fuck it, I'm not Tao" So I know her gatlings on block pretty well.

Also easy ways to deal with her Asteroid Vision mixup is as such: Anything other than the D attack can be hit by 2C, the D attack can be dealt with by 360A on reaction. So it is kind of a mixup but its nowhere near as bad as it could be. Most characters have answers to these so she is nowhere near as scary as she used to be. Only exception I think of is Bang without meter.

[ZhePrime]

A good poke does not an inescapable block string make. Seriously, as far as block strings go they all look really unsafe so far.

You asked for a good normal that could be jump cancel'd.

But no, blockstrings aren't exactly her forté. Her mixup isn't mindblowing either.

[Mike Z]

- 360A, Gadget works on her. (Mentioned elsewhere, but not here?)

- 360A, 5B works on her without walking, so easy Spark. However if you do 5B->4D the 4D will whiff.

- 360B, 2B works without moving. I couldn't get 2B->2C even with walking but maybe I suck. :^) You can do 2B xx AC if already magnetized.

Blodia Punch super:

The blue part is a projectile, but Makoto herself is a hit. You can BSledge during the flash and absorb the blue fist, but depending on distance you will either clash with Makoto's punch (and can 360) or get FC'd and die. Magnetized Spinny during the superflash either clashes (close) and gets you DP'd, or is blockable for her. Also note that you CANNOT 720 this super during the flash, even point-blank, because she moves back during the preparation far enough to dodge it and then you get FC'd and die. Also, she will trade with a Spark (in her favor). All in all, watch the f*** out when she has meter.

[iOryan]

Pro tip, dont get fatal'd in the corner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FMIRr8D3zg

i know i know - super situational and probably will never happen in a match but its pretty nasty.

[Sogetsu Kazama]

Pro tip, dont get fatal'd in the corner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FMIRr8D3zg

i know i know - super situational and probably will never happen in a match but its pretty nasty.

Ouch............

last night i found out that 720 clean trades With her uppercut super ....

[RandomGuy]

Ouch............

last night i found out that 720 clean trades With her uppercut super ....

Hmm. Good to know. Thanks! This is valuable info for a Mako player! >=D

[Manta]

Ouch............

last night i found out that 720 clean trades With her uppercut super ....

How does one trade hits with a throw move?

[Maho]

- 360B, 2B works without moving. I couldn't get 2B->2C even with walking but maybe I suck. :^) You can do 2B xx AC if already magnetized.

You can 2B AC unmagnetized with a few pixels walk, she's one of the easiest you can do this on, you can also walk 2B 2C AC without magnetism but like hazama it's hard as hell, enough to forget about it in matches and stick with 2B AC IMO.

Also very situationnal but interesting, as you can 2B her after 360A and makes you able to do that if she's magnetised :

- 360A > 2B RC > 5C > AC x 2 > 6B > 2C > AC > 5D, it's 50% heat but you get 4209 dmg so i think it should be worth it in some cases.

You can land the first part unmagnetized if she's like one Tager sprite away back from corner, and do E/B Gadget after AC (3874). You can also add 6A after 5C to be able to get this a few pixels farther from the corner, but you lose the gadget, add spark combo to get her back into the corner with 4K+

[Wrathos]

So pretty much: IB her unsafe blockstring, bait her DP and punish the hell out of her - and watch the f*** out when she has meter. And watch out for corner combos and 2C her asteroid vision.

sounds like just another day in life of tager

[Osuna]

Blodia Punch super:

The blue part is a projectile, but Makoto herself is a hit. You can BSledge during the flash and absorb the blue fist, but depending on distance you will either clash with Makoto's punch (and can 360) or get FC'd and die. Magnetized Spinny during the superflash either clashes (close) and gets you DP'd, or is blockable for her. Also note that you CANNOT 720 this super during the flash, even point-blank, because she moves back during the preparation far enough to dodge it and then you get FC'd and die. Also, she will trade with a Spark (in her favor). All in all, watch the f*** out when she has meter.

I was pretty close at the time, he was trying to bait me by running up then doing the super, but I most certainly 720'd and won. I buffered it during the extremely long flash as a bit of a test and counter threw her right out from her giant blue fist.

You asked for a good normal that could be jump cancel'd.

But no, blockstrings aren't exactly her forté. Her mixup isn't mindblowing either.

I guess that was pretty ambiguous. I asked for a new one. The implication being she'd be able to parry cancel it for a better block string

[Nobus3r1]

FYI she can parry Magna-Tech Wheel.

[Mike Z]

I stand corrected. I got FC'd enough times that I figured you couldn't 720 her. What I should say (after testing now) is: If she is around 3/4 max range of 720, she steps back enough that even with magnetism you won't get her. That's about the distance that 5ax4 puts her.

[Big Red Tie]

How does one trade hits with a throw move?

both players fly into the air holding on to each other for dear life

[Osuna]

I don't think this was mentioned, but forgive me if it is old new.

Makoto's 3C isn't Just low profile it's invulnerable to body attribute attacks. You need head or foot to hit her out of it.

[Heroic_Legacy]

What about shoulders and knees?

[Tofu Warrior]

If she uses that shit in strings, react and A-Buster it. If she throws it out in footsies, react and CH it with 5B. Then from there go into 2C if you're close, or go for the reset with 6B. Chances are good she'll keep blocking low if you counter hit her with a low.

[Osuna]

Ok, I'm starting to thinking it has upper body invinvibility unlike everything else in this game. I got a counterhit with 4D, but other moves have been creating whiff circles, or maybe the invuln wore off?

Ugh I'm gonna have to test it later or I'll never stop wondering.

[ravaii]

Since you can throw from crouching then whether you are crouch or standing if you see 3C and are in range just hit B+C to counter with a throw

[bigphil6561]

at point blank, you can 360a through her bbs super flash. on her pf super flash, voltaic then 720(or 360 if you have no meter).

[Azzal]

Hi there!

I fought last night a very good Makoto( I never played a good Makoto before), I won most of the time but it was really hard for me, specially when I was in the corner. I didn't know when to IB, her pressure strings ending in the orb move then starting over again were making me nuts.

Her sort of slide move hitting low (sorry, I really don't know her move) was unpunishable, even with 360A.

So which move can I easily IB?

2C FC is really usefull again her astral vision yeah, helped a lot.

But Astral Vison , and specially his follows ups made me insane. I mean, she can follow AV A C with a low hit then another low hit, or a low hit followed by an overhead which she can RC and go for a combo that really hurts. And i wasn't able to see that overhead.

Which is the preferable option? Block low or high or was it just me sucking at seeing the overhead?

And her BBS, damn this is awful, is it a 0 frames or what.

[evilben]

umm, yea the only overhead she has that i know if is pretty slow and you should be able to react to it, and if she is trying to asteroid vision you she shouldnt get that far. 2C fatal counters every use of asteroid vision but 214a with a d follow up, and 360a beats that one. so, if a makoto trys that garbage on you beat the hell out of her and turn her into a hat.

if you dont feel comfortable using 360a on her slide move (im assuming you are talking about 3c here, the one where she kinda spins around on the ground) 2b is (this is all written above)

about not knowing when it IB her attacks, well, its something to learn, you cant expect to know someones combos when you havent really played against them before can you? but against makoto... you can IB pretty much anything...

[Azzal]

No the OH I talked about was the follow up after Astral Vision A, C A. He can go C A, which is the OH, or C C which is low, and the A C is a combo link, so I wasn't able to react to it. And the spin move I talked about is the C C follow up, not 3C, my mistake.

[evilben]

i could be wrong, but i was under the impression that you can hit her out of the asteroid vision move, before any follow up to it for FC with 2c (excluding the 214a > d followup, im pretty sure that one makes you wiff the 2c.) or, if they are doing a button asteroid vision, i think you can 360a all the them. again, im not positive so please correct me if im wrong!

id sit down and check it but im at work right now so....

[Osuna]

Hi there!

I fought last night a very good Makoto( I never played a good Makoto before), I won most of the time but it was really hard for me, specially when I was in the corner. I didn't know when to IB, her pressure strings ending in the orb move then starting over again were making me nuts.

Her sort of slide move hitting low (sorry, I really don't know her move) was unpunishable, even with 360A.

So which move can I easily IB?

2C FC is really usefull again her astral vision yeah, helped a lot.

But Astral Vison , and specially his follows ups made me insane. I mean, she can follow AV A C with a low hit then another low hit, or a low hit followed by an overhead which she can RC and go for a combo that really hurts. And i wasn't able to see that overhead.

Which is the preferable option? Block low or high or was it just me sucking at seeing the overhead?

And her BBS, damn this is awful, is it a 0 frames or what.

360A the orb if she's using it to reset block strings. It leaves a pretty big gap before it goes active. The overhead can only show up in certain parts of her block string and is kinda slow. She can also only use lows in specific parts of her block string, so just get used to that and he mix up will be really bad.

I'm not sure instant block spots are what you should be looking for since her pressure sucks and at worst she can cancel any normals minus on block into AV or something else. You want to throw her out of 3C (where she spins low to the ground) not block and punish it. Everyone else already talked about asteroid vision punishing.

[Nini Heart]

360A the orb if she's using it to reset block strings. It leaves a pretty big gap before it goes active. The overhead can only show up in certain parts of her block string and is kinda slow. She can also only use lows in specific parts of her block string, so just get used to that and he mix up will be really bad.

I'm not sure instant block spots are what you should be looking for since her pressure sucks and at worst she can cancel any normals minus on block into AV or something else. You want to throw her out of 3C (where she spins low to the ground) not block and punish it. Everyone else already talked about asteroid vision punishing.

Since he's talking about corner shenanigans with the orb, i'd assume he was talking about this. You most definitely cannot and should not 360 that unless you wanna eat 6k+. You can guess and block 6b or 2b, or not tech and stay on the ground or do the spinning super.

Bolded part FTW. Shit is +4 on block, so yeah don't try punishing, just 360 her ass when you see her spinning.

But Astral Vison , and specially his follows ups made me insane. I mean, she can follow AV A C with a low hit then another low hit, or a low hit followed by an overhead which she can RC and go for a combo that really hurts. And i wasn't able to see that overhead.

Which is the preferable option? Block low or high or was it just me sucking at seeing the overhead?

And her BBS, damn this is awful, is it a 0 frames or what.

Asteroid vision C followup hits mid. Then she can go into a low or overhead or C mash which hits mid and is extremely unsafe. Like -12 or something on block. Just grab her or something.

Always watch out for the overhead follow up, as she can connect into 2D or 5D after that one for big damage. The low one hits for like 700 damage with no follow ups so you have no reason to be scared of that.

As for 2Cing asteroid vision, i'm not sure about that. If the makoto notices, couldn't he just asteroid+barrier guard + punish?

And BBS is getting nerfed