[CS1-CSE] Makoto Nanaya Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[Kurushii]

This thread is the perfect place to post your video(es) of your Makoto play and have them critiqued by the scurry of squirrels here and receive advice on what you should work on to take your Makoto play to the next tree (level).

If you are a Makoto main, sub, or just play Makoto just cause she's nuts and want to get better with her, this is THE place to post! Don't be shy cause we all are starting out with her! Post post post! Go nuts!

[Axle_the_red]

I'm not going to post a video unfortunately...I kind of don't have a great internet connection so any vids would be of me lagging horribly...(Sorry Hazama that I fought a few days ago...) buuuuut...I do have a bit of an improvement question...

How does one go about...playing Makoto? I understand the whole rushdown deal but...(and this is just me being new to Makoto) it sure seems like she can't do a whole lot of mixup on people. Like for example...block string (the only one I know...but still)

5B -> 5CC -> 6BC

After the 5B is blocked...where can you go? They're going to expect another attack...and they'll just block. You can hit 6B, but I don't think it links (feel free to correct me). I *think* 2C may link, but it's slow as balls...so...

And this just may be me getting annoyed cause the comp is beating the crap out of me. I rarely if ever use asteroid vision outside of a combo because I'm *always hit straight out of it without fail.* Stupid CPU can't be tricked like people can...

The only combo I can execute/have memorized is 5B -> 5CC -> 6BC -> 214a -> Cxn and that's not exactly a killer combo or anything...soooo...fellow noobs like me...

How do you go about learning Makoto and fitting into her playstyle? How do you apply pressure well (I'm thinking "Ragna's a rushdown...and he has all kinds of pressure mixup...where's Makoto's?")? And lastly...do we even have a BnB list going? I know we have a combo list going as well as the space loop...but nothing has really been slapped with the BnB label (so far as I know).

Anyways, hope to kick off the thread with a great start!

...btw...I hate that space loop. I try so hard to get any reps and it doesn't work...then when I literally *stop thinking about it* I get 3~4 reps. *mind boggled*

[Stafy]

These are all of Makoto's gatlings. 5B can cancel into 2b, a low, and 6B can't link into anything else but 6CC, and it's laggy and punishable. A very basic blockstring as of now is 5b 2b 6A. 6A is jump cancelable. You can throw in a comet if you think you can get it in, as it breaks a primer at level 3, two if you can get makoto's punch in there too. However, this will make her a bit vulnerable. If you do use 6CC, asteroid vision out.

Her BnB is 5B 5CC 6BC 214A~CCCCCC. 214A~C can be done at 5CC and 6B too if you you think 6B~C won't reach. You can also do 5D[3] if you want to put them in a corner easier.

The combo I use in the corner is 5B 5CC 6BC 5D[3] 2D[3] j.D[3] 2b/5b [[ 6a (s)jc j.b j.c jc j.b j.c 623C~D[3] OR any super OR astral ]].

When you do a 3C, do 2b 6a (s)jc j.b j.c jc j.b j.c 623C~D

The space loop is a good thing to learn, but I would only use it if you have it down. Otherwise, if you do, 3 or 4 reps can replace her bnb, and you can end it with 2d[1 or 2] to have oki.

I use Asteroid vision to escape corners if I need too.

[heartlesswizard]

I've posted some (ugly) player matches on my youtube channel: www.youtube.com/user/heartlesswizard.

First off, the following comments go without saying:

"nail down your 5B 5CC 6B+ and 3C 2B 6A +",

"try 5B 5CC 6B (5C) 5D (lvl 3) if you have problems with 5C into infinite rush (transition already in progress--at least temporarily)"

"2A (hit) into BnB",

"2A (block) into mix-up",

"charge up your D attacks appropriately",

"poke with D more",

"rapid cancel a blocked infinite rush (if you somehow find yourself in that situation - lol)".

"mix up with 5B-2B-5CC"

But I do have some basic questions:

1. Is 5B-2B-6A the accepted blockstring (similar to the presumably accepted blockstring of 2A-5B-6A)?

2. Do I even need to bother with 5B-5CC-6B-C-214ACmash when I can just sub 5D (lvl 3) for infinite rush? (Damage difference is only about 280 less with the 5D (3), but I don't know the heat difference).

3. What's the consensus on asteroid vision out of blockstrings? Is it a positional thing? I have yet to be punished with the B or C version, but I lose all pressure. However, 214A~A and 214A~B frequently get me punished. (Yes, I know a blocked 5CC gatlings into 2c, 3c, and maybe 6b, and that none of those moves can be canceled into a jump).

4. Is 5CC-6B-(5C)-632146D a cop-out or a good use of meter? Or is better to go for 5CC-6B-5C-5D-RC+ (midscreen)? Is 2C 236236D a bad idea?

5. Which is the better move for fishing for a fatal counter, 2C or 5D? 2C FC seems to lead to bigger combos, but it's awfully slow.

Apologies if these have been addressed before. Haven't gotten through the whole general discussion thread yet.

[Axle_the_red]

I've posted some (ugly) player matches on my youtube channel: www.youtube.com/user/heartlesswizard.

First off, the following comments go without saying:

"nail down your 5B 5CC 6B+ and 3C 2B 6A +",

"try 5B 5CC 6B (5C) 5D (lvl 3) if you have problems with 5C into infinite rush (transition already in progress--at least temporarily)"

"2A (hit) into BnB",

"2A (block) into mix-up",

"charge up your D attacks appropriately",

"poke with D more",

"rapid cancel a blocked infinite rush (if you somehow find yourself in that situation - lol)".

"mix up with 5B-2B-5CC"

But I do have some basic questions:

1. Is 5B-2B-6A the accepted blockstring (similar to the presumably accepted blockstring of 2A-5B-6A)?

2. Do I even need to bother with 5B-5CC-6B-C-214ACmash when I can just sub 5D (lvl 3) for infinite rush? (Damage difference is only about 280 less with the 5D (3), but I don't know the heat difference).

3. What's the consensus on asteroid vision out of blockstrings? Is it a positional thing? I have yet to be punished with the B or C version, but I lose all pressure. However, 214A~A and 214A~B frequently get me punished. (Yes, I know a blocked 5CC gatlings into 2c, 3c, and maybe 6b, and that none of those moves can be canceled into a jump).

4. Is 5CC-6B-(5C)-632146D a cop-out or a good use of meter? Or is better to go for 5CC-6B-5C-5D-RC+ (midscreen)? Is 2C 236236D a bad idea?

5. Which is the better move for fishing for a fatal counter, 2C or 5D? 2C FC seems to lead to bigger combos, but it's awfully slow.

Apologies if these have been addressed before. Haven't gotten through the whole general discussion thread yet.

I'll try and answer a few questions...can't say I know a whole lot though. >.<

1. I believe so...the ending lets you jump cancel...

2. Your choice. It's kind of situational...if you want to throw them into a corner, go with 5D (3).

3. Kind of your choice...I've seen a lot of people just use it to get away...however, I did see someone use the C version and then j.2c out of it...seems to work since her j2c is pretty good vs anti air...

4. not a clue...

5. 5D is probably going to get fc a whole lot more than 2c...as for combos afterwards...I have no clue...

I'm uploading a vid at the moment...I'll edit in after it uploads (my comp just flipped out and I lost this typed post so...I'm not going to type this again..). Vid coming soon for critiquing!

[heartlesswizard]

Thanks for the reply.

Will check out your vids when they come up. Will post up more Makoto vids later. Will not ask questions like this is a general discussion thread. Did not intend to hijack this thread. Apologies all around.

Now, let's retire my questions with my own answers after watching some top Makoto players on the youtube channel of PeacefulJayx. Any further discussion of the following can go on in the general discussion thread, which I've already read in its entirety.

1. Yeah. Ending a blockstring with 6A is always OK.

2. Situational. Top Maks use both.

3. If you need to get out of the BnB combo and still retain some momentum, consider (1) 236A (current fave, usually without Break Shot), (2) 5D (with timing mixup and option to cancel, riskiest of the three), and (3) 214A~D (with timing mixup, most stylish method). 214B/C kill momentum but can get out of the corner or get your opponent closer to the corner. 5CC (blocked) into 2C/3C is uncommon, due to poor recovery.

4. BnB w/ BBS is considered acceptable, in addition to fancy rapid cancel combos. It's situational.

5. Fishing with a slow 2C is usually a bad idea. Her 2C and 3C pale in comparison to Bang/Rags/Noel, and as long as this remains true she'll never be the rush down champ. 5D(3) FC into corner combo is good game.

[Big Red Tie]

er, wouldn't top makotos use parry loop instead of the bnb?

[Halcyone3]

er, wouldn't top makotos use parry loop instead of the bnb?

maybe he means loop by BnB, easy to confuse big staple combos with BnBs sometimes, specially when her actual "BnB" is quite crappy.

[fogelstrom]

3. Three great ways to get out of the BnB combo and retain some momentum: (1) Comet Cannon (current fave), (2) 5D (with timing mixup and option to cancel, kind of risky), and (3) 214A~D (with timing mixup, most stylish method). 5CC (blocked) into 2C/3C is uncommon, due to poor recovery.

So if I understand this correct it's legit to use say 2A/5A, 5B, 5CC, 236A~D Lv3? I'm currently looking for stuff that let's me be able to stay somewhat ontop of players since Makoto's pokes aren't that awesome.

Obviously there's a gap in the above mention block combo but what would be able to punish? SRK's and Tagers buster or is it all good...? Still very fresh to Makoto obviously

[heartlesswizard]

I didn't mean combo into Comet Cannon. Sorry. I meant you can cancel into it on block. I was looking for analogs to Rags' GH/DS/5D/2D game on block. Basically, Makoto can't compare in that area. And you're right--Parry Loop > BnB.

Everything mentioned here should have gone into the general discussion thread. I've read the whole thing, and it fits right in. Let's reserve this thread for posting and critiques.

[fogelstrom]

Yeah I know, but I've seen people use it on block in some vids and it's seems alright. When I do any combo that ends with 5CC if I don't cancel it to whatever I get IB'd and 360B from Tager. Also any other character that IB's the second hit of 5CC punish me bad. Guess I should just start to confirm blocks to 6A so I can jump cancel for mixups and use Asteroid Vision B/C after 5CC.

Feeling really out of place when people are blocking, mind goes blank with what to do atm that's favourable for me.

[Axle_the_red]

Well...I guess maybe I'll post a vid here instead of editing my earlier post since I didn't expect a whole lot to happen from then to now. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFOO6DzGO3w

Tear it up. I make no claims to be good with Makoto...just got the space loop sort of kind of executable today but...anyway...the only thing I can legitimately say I'm proud of in that video is the ending.

[Zhai1]

Guess I'll repost mine again in this thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vkgx0ixrg4

any advice would be nice. I cant pull off the infinite loop consistently yet =(

[heartlesswizard]

@ axlethered

nice astral.

i think the use of 236A on knockdown is still being debated, but in this case--at the one minute mark--it was beat by wake-up 3c by Makoto.

combos look ok.

[heartlesswizard]

Guess I'll repost mine again in this thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vkgx0ixrg4

any advice would be nice. I cant pull off the infinite loop consistently yet =(

nothing really negative to say

5cc-dp at the start of the vid works but is unorthodox

214B/C against haku can be dangerous given his proficiency at air-to-air

[heartlesswizard]

I am the greatest Makoto of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIsteSL538

[NickExtreme1]

I am the greatest Makoto of all time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIsteSL538

Parrying Taokaka's air-to-ground attacks is pretty useful when you can parry confidently. That and j.B work wonders. I wouldn't try 6A against them, animation lasts too long (5C I find a better alternate)

Also, Tao's air-to-air game imo is better than Makoto's, I wouldn't try any random attacks in the air besides j. B.

[heartlesswizard]

Parrying Taokaka's air-to-ground attacks is pretty useful when you can parry confidently. That and j.B work wonders. I wouldn't try 6A against them, animation lasts too long (5C I find a better alternate)

Also, Tao's air-to-air game imo is better than Makoto's, I wouldn't try any random attacks in the air besides j. B.

Thanks for the tips. Makoto's air-to-air game is pretty weak in general, I think. Nice youtube channel by the way.

[NinjaCW]

I'll be posting up some vids later. Hopefully someone can give me something. . . I'm so lost rofl.

[Wokker]

Hello, Makoto noob here.

Ive been playing Makoto for some days and I like her playstyle. Ive learned some simple BnB´s and got a little experience with her from playing player-matches.

But I have a question, do you have to learn the "Parry/Space Loop" to play her at a higher level, or can you stick to BnB´s and simple combos?

[excelence]

... If u want to be better, u'll want to learn everything about said character >_> ... anyway Space cancel give loads of heat and give high damage on any situation unlike Drive combos that need certain positioning ... so yeah u'll need that

[Wokker]

I guess Ill start practicing it right now, its hard as hell to pull off.

[KokuHime]

Hello, Makoto noob here.

Ive been playing Makoto for some days and I like her playstyle. Ive learned some simple BnB´s and got a little experience with her from playing player-matches.

But I have a question, do you have to learn the "Parry/Space Loop" to play her at a higher level, or can you stick to BnB´s and simple combos?

Makoto noob to Makoto noob. I've been playing for a good while and I spent most of my time in Challenge mode and practicing Parry Loop, but I'm a bit confused as to what her BnBs can be. I came up with one on my own before coming to Dust Loop. I favor 5B > 5CC > 6B > 5C > 2D. Id appreciate if you could give a little insight. Makoto is a wonderful character and I'd really like to improve her basics.

[Wokker]

I dont know how good my BnB´s are, but I came up with these myself.

Standard standing combo:

5B, 5CC, 6B, 5D

50% Heat - 5B, 5CC, 6B, Particle Flare

3C, 2B, 6A, sjc, j.CC, jc, j.CC, Corona upper ~D

50% Heat - Comet Cannon Lvl 3, Big bang smash

Combo in corner:

50% Heat - 5B, 5CC, 6B, 5D, 2D, j.D, Short Dash, 6C, Particle flare

[Eshi]

If you're a casual player and only want to play against friends or online against good players then the parry loop isn't needed at all, but if you want to play at a tournament level then you need to learn it 100%. It dramatically improves here midscreen combos and opens up more options for resets.