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Hecatom

Marvel vs Capcom 3

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Neither of those are specifically stated as just being those chars though. This game is titled 'Marvel vs Capcom'. I can't think of any characters from other franchises in MvC1 or 2, or TvC.

Plus Soul Calibur already featured characters from Star Wars in 4, and Spawn/Link/I can't remember who the PS2 char was (Tekken dude?) in 2, so a cameo from another franchise is almost expected by now.

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Soul Calibur 4 is not very combo based, BB is definitely a combo based game. By a combo based game I mean that the primary way of damage acquisition in a game is based on combo damage, not poke or grad etc.. type damage.

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EDIT : Wait doesn't that mean HnK is not combo based ?

rofl

Soul Calibur 4 is not very combo based, BB is definitely a combo based game. By a combo based game I mean that the primary way of damage acquisition in a game is based on combo damage, not poke or grad etc.. type damage.

then you should say combo friendly or combo heavy, not combo based, that sounds like you are implying that combos are the most important thing on the game at least for me it sounds like that :/

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Soul Calibur 4 is not very combo based, BB is definitely a combo based game. By a combo based game I mean that the primary way of damage acquisition in a game is based on combo damage, not poke or grad etc.. type damage.

It's a silly dichotomy. In every fighting game you'll use the longest chain of attacks you can afford to maximize your damage; the only difference might be on how varied or how long the comboes are, and if there's any decision making during the comboes themselves between damage, oki or traps/resets. And even then that doesn't really say much about the game.

Yes comboes are long in Marvel vs Capcom and there'll be a good deal of decision making during the comboes themselves, involving meter usage and character switch.

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It's a silly dichotomy. In every fighting game you'll use the longest chain of attacks you can afford to maximize your damage; the only difference might be on how varied or how long the comboes are, and if there's any decision making during the comboes themselves between damage, oki or traps/resets. And even then that doesn't really say much about the game.

IDK man. I think it says almost everything about the game. Look at the difference between GG and BB. The biggest difference is GG's guard bar. It was an important part of the game because it forced you to constantly reevaluate what the optimal next move in your combo was, which led to a huge diversity of combos and changes in decisions at a level that other games don't have. In BB, the biggest deciding factors in what combo you'll do is which move you hit with and where you are on the screen. You see something similar with Melty where the super meter has wacky, dynamic properties that constantly changes combo decisions. Those mechanics ARE those games.

Then there's the dichotomy. While I won't say combo length is directly correlated with how good a game is, there are certainly some connections to how accessible the game is. Look at FuC and Jojo. Both are decent games with interesting mechanics but in Jojo's case, combo length, execution difficulty and reliance on the damage that those combos bring makes the games practically inaccessible and the scene dies because of it. In FuC's case, the combos are approximately GG difficulty but significantly longer and with less variety/decision making. If there was a mechanic similar to GG's guard bar this wouldn't be a problem but because there isn't one the game is a bit stale to play and watch even though there is a lot of decision making before a combo starts.

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This is "Mahvel" in other words, combos are only one way of dealing damage, the other is filling the screen full of shizz.

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Also, I hope Kratos NEVER makes an appearance in an MVC game EVER.

lolol hes not even a Marvel or Capcom character but I kind of get what you mean.

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Stuff

Combo mechanics are approximately a third of a game, really. It says SOME things about a game, but it hardly says everything. I would disagree that what MAKES guilty gear what it is, is the guard meter. I would be of the opinion that what makes Guilty Gear what it is, is the meter management system, which governs a lot of what goes and both comboes, mixups and even zoning... but even then, that's not guilty gear, that's just ONE factor. Which in conjunction with a lot of other factors, makes Guilty Gear what it is.

Same thing with Melty Blood and FuC. I could add one silly mechanic to any of these games, and they would change up completely even though their combo systems would be unaltered.

Although you are right in saying that combo lenght and variety dramatically alters the accessibility of the game.

EDIT : also what made FuC boring as fuck wasn't the fact that there wasn't much decision making during comboes. There wasn't much decision making or variance in setups out of comboes either. It was a very very formulaic game...

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Mega Man was one of the first characters ruled out – offers nothing unique, says devs.

Imma rage soooo hard if true. :arg:

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Combo mechanics are approximately a third of a game, really. It says SOME things about a game, but it hardly says everything. I would disagree that what MAKES guilty gear what it is, is the guard meter. I would be of the opinion that what makes Guilty Gear what it is, is the meter management system, which governs a lot of what goes and both comboes, mixups and even zoning... but even then, that's not guilty gear, that's just ONE factor. Which in conjunction with a lot of other factors, makes Guilty Gear what it is.

Same thing with Melty Blood and FuC. I could add one silly mechanic to any of these games, and they would change up completely even though their combo systems would be unaltered.

Although you are right in saying that combo lenght and variety dramatically alters the accessibility of the game.

EDIT : also what made FuC boring as fuck wasn't the fact that there wasn't much decision making during comboes. There wasn't much decision making or variance in setups out of comboes either. It was a very very formulaic game...

For Marvel, I'm going to say that the remaining 2/3rds are made up of mobility and space control (something you can't really separate). The playing field in Marvel is arguably one of the largest in a traditional 2d fighting game. To compensate, characters are given both extended mobility and the attacks/moves that can control alot of space.

The thing about the games though is that not everyone has the same mobility options, not everyone can airdash and among those that can, there are still some major differences. For example, we have those who can air-dash in 8 direction (leafing to the infamous tri-jumps; jumping then airdash down forward, leading to almost instant overheads). Then we also have characters that can fly in addition to dashing in mid air.

Now traditionally, characters who have high mobility tend to rank higher then those who don't. For those who don't have that kind of mobility, the challenge (for both developer and player) lies in figuring out how to compensate for this, either by using moves that augment their mobility (teleports, dashing attacks, dive kicks, etc.) or controlling large amounts of space. This is why MvC2 Cable is considered god tier despite not having the same insane mobility as Storm, Sentinel and Magneto. The space controlled by his moves (and the damage he can deal using them) brings him up there.

Assists also bring in an extra element to this. The right assists can increase the amount of space you control as well as augment your mobility (by controlling that space). Doom's Molecular Shield assist is considered one of the best in MvC2 (and in MvC3 as well it seems) because it's an anti-air assist that totally controls the ground and regular jump levels. This means that it can be used to extend your ground mobility. This is why Strider/Doom is such a deadly team: Strider controls alot of space once he has meter via Ouroboros and can augment his mobility by teleport, factor in Doom's rocks and you can see why it's such a deadly lockdown team in the right hands. This is also why people are pairing Doom with Morrigan in MvC3: Doom's rocks allow Morrigan to get in and start her Astral Vision pressure as well as helping augment it once she starts.

Off course, that's not everything, we still need the other 1/3rd which is combos, or more specifically, the ability to capitalize on the mobility and space controlled by a character. Most every character in MvC2 has some "broken" shenanigans and infinites, but not everyone is top tier because of this. This is because some don't have the mobility to come in and utilize them. Other have mobility, but have combos/infinites that are quite situational that it's hard to capitalize (e.g. MvC2 Morrigan, who was called "Low Tier Magnus" since she had similar mobility as Mags, but not the combos to capitalize on it).

With 3 at least, we can see that there is effort on Capcom's part to give everyone options for damage and mobility. Alot of the the things that the 4 gods have is now being spread to other characters as well. hopefully then, this means a more balanced game that still has the same potential as high level MvC2.

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If there is no Megaman I'll happily skip this game until I hear he's dlc or something other than that capcom you fail,you fail hard! I could barely take all the deconfirmations of good characters and series I mean I knew power stone wouldn't make it but it still broke my heart nontheless. Also no strider,gambit, or Breath of Fire at least some Warzard! They suck at rosters. I'll admit this roster is good but it could be better than this. And yes I like MODOK.

The marvel side of the roster is alright but the capcom side seems lacking and I hope to god Akuma doesn't make it they said no shotoclones right? aside from Arthur,Amaterasu,V.Joe,and Spencer that side is a bit dull.

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So this weekend I should find out if Phoenix is playable or not (according to this "source") Hmm...well if it all holds water I'm pretty ok with everything except the stages (8 really?)

On an unrelated note why doesn't DC shoot for a more epic game/anime crossover (MK vs DC is meh), I only ask cause I'm playing the beta for DCU and it reminds how much more I like DC characters over Marvel :v:

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LOL at scrubs valuing characters over gameplay.

Well normally I wouldn't...but um isn't the point of a crossover, of any sort, to entice with the characters they feature? I mean obviously if some of my favorite characters have generally bad gameplay or I don't like the way they play then I'm going to drop them.

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LOL at scrubs valuing characters over gameplay.

If you're talking about picking your characters based on 'Who they are" rather than the way they fight, Then i gotta say you're the real bitch in this situation. I pick my characters by how they look and who they are, and then learn to play them regardless of their fighting style. It's easy to pick a character that matches your fighting style, It takes time to pick a character that you like and make them work for you. in MvC2, My team was Hayato, Jill, and Venom. Before online play i did great with them. We have this thing about teir whores in jersey where we punch them in the arm during gameplay if they pick "broken" characters (im lookin at you Nu).

sidenote: im drunk and i may have misinterpreted what you were trying to say and if thats the case im sorry

MvC3: Dante, Jill/Chris, Spiderman. or Zero, Morrigan, and FUCK YEAH haggar!

If you like a character(based off of previous games) Learn to use them and show these scrubs that skill beats tier.

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I'm sad about no Megaman, I wanted Volnutt back. He was fun.

We have this thing about teir whores in jersey where we punch them in the arm during gameplay if they pick "broken" characters (im lookin at you Nu).

What the fuck

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