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Doom Dragon 103

[CS2] Noel Changelog Loketest 1-5

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What are they doing? That's some of the stupidest shit I've ever heard, Spring Raid, without its invuln, was only good for combos. I can understand losing the haida, because it looks like they are trying to get rid of everyone's loops, but I certainly don't like it. I'm praying that her normals are buffed at least, that way maybe her combos could be more Normal-Heavy. At the very least I'm hoping she's not nerfed to Tsubaki damage output.

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Cant really say anything until we see what 'D moves changed' means. Like Luna, I can understand the haida ditch, since they're getting rid of loops - losing 623D > 66C is a big hit tho, since that's pretty much what you used instead of haida for damage.

Hopefully we'll get something a tad more solid in the coming days, maybe even some videos. Still would love to see the new j.4D.

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From the October 8th loke test.

Noel

- Noel D moves changed

Can be good or bad...

- Bloom Trigger slides

Can be good or bad... do we still have corner bloom trigger into fenrir? Can we pickup the combo without a rapid?

- No more HAIDA combos

As long as the rest of her combos are buffed, (or if everyone else's combos in the game is nurfed), then I'm fine with this.

- Noel SPRING RAID knocks across the screen, can't followup unless in corner. 5D even slower.

Seems strange that they'd get rid of 623D -> 66C link. If we have jump-cancels however, 2147A will likely be a suitable replacement (800 minimum damage + good proration). 2147A and Spring Raid are reudnant on midscreen standing opponents...

Uhhhh, I really do not know what to think about these changes, it seems like they want to make Noel suck even more. No haida, no Spring Raid to 6C combos, I don't even know how Noel will be able to get decent damage midscreen anymore. I'm interested in how Noel D moves have changed, but I'm speculating that they aren't good changes.

I can't imagine how to make any of Noel's D moves worse on block. And there is plenty of room for creativity if we want combos. Any change to Noel's D is good news IMO.

Bloom Trigger sliding I guess just gives time for you to run over and pressure on wakeup, oki basically, it's already able to do that though. :psyduck: Unless it slides so long you can run over and relaunch with 2b, who knows, maybe mid combo 236d 66 2b relaunch might be a new thing going.

Noel's 6C relaunches a sliding opponent IIRC, so corner bloom trigger probably won't change, as long as its an untechable slide. Actually, that could make CT style bloom trigger loops easier to do. Another possibility is Bloom Trigger -> 22C for a relaunch (sliding counts as down right?)

***********************

Here are my thoughts overall:

1. Reliable Oki from Spring Raid? We got plenty of relaunches, but few ways of getting reliable Oki from random chain revolver stuff. (like random d.5B).

2. "Changed D moves" is about the most ambiguous news I've ever heard of. Lets hope for more jump cancels, more hitstop and smaller buffer: this will allow for offensive option select. :eng101: (d.5A 214Dd.5B optionselect bitch!).

3. Need footage of j.4D.

See? I can turn any news into good news when we have so little information avaliable.

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●ノエル

・強化点

-Cハイダーの浮きが高くなって遠目からのコンボが行きやすくなった

-バレルの発生早く

-しゃがみ喰らいに6Aが当たる

-5Cガードされてもjc可能

-CRの挙動が速くなったものあり

-地上喰らいブルームトリガーがスライドダウンに

・弱化点

-Cハイダーの浮きが高くなったため高火力コンに行くときに工夫が必要に

-5Dの発生AMショー時よりさらに鈍化。一瞬溜めてから前に出て、距離が長い

-ハイダー同技乗算付加?長いハイダーコンは削除に

-火力低下

http://generalnantoka.blog35.fc2.com/blog-entry-387.html

Get some weaboo up in this shit in case there's something new

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A CS2 loctest is happening right now, some guy is tweeting about the changes.

http://twitter.com/ushidonburi

Noel

- Noel D moves changed

- Bloom Trigger slides

- No more HAIDA combos

- Noel SPRING RAID knocks across the screen, can't followup unless in corner. 5D even slower.

Noel D moves changes

Like most others im interested to see HOW they've change ... do we get more or less or is there just alot changed with each separate drive mode

Bloom Trigger Slides

Arcsys dont seem to like wall bounces either, so does that mean in the corner 236D > 632146D wont work anymore.

No More Haida

In all honesty the Haida REALLY didnt need to go away ... especially since Noels damage did shit anyway, i was in the process of learning it to ... oh well x.x

Spring Raid

It was honestly pretty hard to combo off it after the launch before because of that recovery time (that i felt anyway) unless you rapid out of it, so this wasnt really needed

Slower 5D

Honestly making 5D lose invinc frames AND making it slower is complete BS but i used to play her with mashing 5D at one point ... it might be for the best but ill have nothing going for her now ...

honestly at this point im already considering a main change but im too stubborn with my love for noel

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From the October 8th loke test.

Noel

- Noel D moves changed

- Bloom Trigger slides

- No more HAIDA combos

- Noel SPRING RAID knocks across the screen, can't followup unless in corner. 5D even slower.

Uhhhh, I really do not know what to think about these changes, it seems like they want to make Noel suck even more. No haida, no Spring Raid to 6C combos, I don't even know how Noel will be able to get decent damage midscreen anymore. I'm interested in how Noel D moves have changed, but I'm speculating that they aren't good changes.

1- too vague to comment

2- im scared of loosing corner combos, sounds like u would not get to combo after 236D, but again, too vague. Slide is worse than wallbounce though, noel already has craptastic range, the wallbounce made it easier to get up to the opponent in time for oki, hoping the slide lasts enough for her to catch up.

3-ooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkk, we still got 623D->66C links for 3C hits

4-...... or not. Blowing them across the screen sounds like an oki killer, i can see it comboing in corner though, maybe.

5-5D even slower, hard to test move speed by eye, if it was noticeable, must be a bit change, though as long as it got some invincibility buff i guess a slower 5D could be alright.

overall too damn vague, but i'm seriously getting a bad feeling :/

like.... what would we do after a 3C if we dont have haida and 623D links? 22BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBC?

heck, what would we do midscreen at all? drive->214A is the only 1 that comes to mind, along with a short drive combo into 236D, which may not even give oki anymore.

I'm gonna be a little hopeful here and guess that her drive changes account for all of this. If not, ASW needs to stop smoking the cheap stuff >_>'

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I'm so not getting a good feeling about those changes...

No more 623d 66c midscreen hurts, a lot, especially since Haida Loop is gone.

Bloom Trigger sliding... no more 5k+ corner combos? i can kind of imagine being able to relaunch with 2b>Fenrir but still, let's hope Arcsys doesn't fuck up this character. I really don't want to change mains but too much BS is too much BS.

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Using google translater, I got some more info on some more changes,

Noel ●

- Improvements

C combo is easier going from a long distance to higher floating Haider

Early generation of the barrel

6A to win a crouch munch

5C can also be guards jc

CR is faster in those behaviors

Eating Burumutoriga slide down the ground

- Weakening point

C tricky when you go to the thermal component was higher floating Tame Takashi Haider

5D even slower than during the occurrence of AM show. Moment from the reservoir out front, long distance

Will tend to blow sideways on Supuringureido, and not to the side of the screen can not chase

Hyder said additional multiplier technique? To remove long Haidakon

Thermal degradation

Seems things are picking up.

Faster optic barrel is nice,

Seems like 6A will hit crouchers(YES)

Guess we can also expect drives to be faster, but who knows HOW they will be faster. The startup moves or in-drive moves, guess we will have to wait and see.

And I like the return of 5C being jump cancelable.

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So ground slide Bloom Trigger is listed as an improvement so relaunch combos are probably possible. And it seems Haida is still possible but is just prorated? And lowered heat gain.

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Using google translater, I got some more info on some more changes,

Noel ●

- Improvements

C combo is easier going from a long distance to higher floating Haider

Early generation of the barrel

6A to win a crouch munch

5C can also be guards jc

Jump Cancel on 5C and 6A hitting crouchers is where its at. Faster Optic Barrel == maybe good... the move absolutely sucks at the moment. At least in CT it had wtf guard stun, and CS1 is too slow (opponents can still react to it), but it has no guard stun / hitstun, so you can't combo or pressure if you even manage to land a hit.

Sounds like Noel is getting better normals, and weaker Drives. This can't be a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. Its not like 623D relaunches help her normal combos. Maybe they want to nurf her max damage and buff her Abare? Thats perfectly fine to me.

From the main page:

Noel

- C Silencer lifts higher, easier to combo from longer distances, harder for longer combos. Added in same-move proration.

- Barrel even faster.

- 6A hits crouchers.

- 5C jump cancelable on block.

- Some Chain Revolver parts faster.

- Hitting with Bloom Trigger on standing opponent will slide them.

- 5D slower.

- Spring Raid hits to edge of screen, can't follow up unless in corner. Does less damage overall.

Lets hope for an Optic Barrel that provides us an "easy out" of Chain Revolver. Optic Barrel needs to drop down to ~15 frames with 0 or better frame advantage to make Chain Revolver safe... but ~20 frame Optic Barrel would be fast enough.

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There's a note on the latest post in the loketest thread

Noel:

+ C haida bounces higher, can perform combos from further away

+ optic barrel start up faster

+ 6A hits crouched opponent

+ 5C can jc even on block

+ chain revolver moves have increased speed

+ bloom trigger slides opponents hit on ground

- C haida bounces higher so higher dmg combos require more skill

- 5D slower than at AM show. Pauses a moment before coming out. Distance is longer

- Spring raid launches more horizontally. If not in corner cannot follow up

- no more long haida loops

- overall dmg decreased

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honestly noels current state is so boring and painful i welcome any changes to her playstyle

until then its back to cammy

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I'm hoping by buffing up her normals she returns to more of her CT playstyle. Not all this bait and try to punish with drive nonsense. Current CS Noel has fun combos, but the rest of her game is just lame.

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I really wonder if they hate this character or if secretly there are Noel's winning tourneys everywhere >_>. On one end our staples are getting destroyed left and right, but our basics are finally coming around a bit. Honestly I've learned to play without Haida Loop and consistently have the heat/dmg I need..it's upsetting to see Haida go, but at the same time I'm fine without it.

Spring Raid, first we lost invinc on our half-ass wannabe DP..now we send them the other way <_> confused. Dunno why this was changed since most Noels i see can't even land the 66C followup. Damn it..

Bloom causes slide...granted I'm a bit meh, but I foresee an RC into 3C without teching outside of combo =). Currently you can land a Bloom trigger, RC into 6C shenanigans soooo hopefully it's not far off. Proration though??

In all honesty it's better to look at all the character changes together. We may be getting off light, but I haven't done much reading on the recent test yet.

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No more 623d 66c midscreen hurts, a lot, especially since Haida Loop is gone.
Personally, the loss of the 623D 66C link doesn't affect me that much, to this day I still haven't gotten the timing down so whatever. Reading that there's no more Haida Loops was certainly an eye raiser for me, although I'm curious to see how Noel's high damaging combos will look like upon losing those 2 essential aspects of 4-5king with Noel.

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this is so disappointing. granted i only play online...but 95% of my game is haida. without the ability to land midscreen 4k combos, corner 5.5-6k combos, FC 5.5k combos, and midscreen to corner 5k-6k combos, i find that she will be a worse rachel. unless her normals become godly, i don't see how she will be a viable character doing midscreen 2.3k-2.8k combos, 3.5k corner combos--especially when she has to practically be on top of characters to hit them or counterhit to begin the attack.

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this is fine. they are gearing her game back towards her normals this loketest. they'll slowly realize how terrible the majority of her normals are and i suspect tweak them more in the 3rd loketest.

either that or they'll lift up her skirt a little more and call it a wrap.

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How much faster can they make her optic barrel and chain revolver i wonder, it's already so much faster than in CT. Any faster and you can probably combo into 236a off something like 5c lol, that would be sort of interesting. Would prorate damage to hell but hey it's abare and leads to knockdown.

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Wasn't there a 6C>Optic Barrel loop in the early loketests of BBCS?

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How much faster can they make her optic barrel and chain revolver i wonder, it's already so much faster than in CT. Any faster and you can probably combo into 236a off something like 5c lol, that would be sort of interesting. Would prorate damage to hell but hey it's abare and leads to knockdown.

Consider this: Jin's 6D is +12 frames and 35 frames. Ragna's Dead Spike is 32 frames and +5 frames.

Noel's 236A is 30 frames and +0 frames, while 236B/C is -5 frames. The move is practically worthless on block / pressure, and still way too slow to make up for it.

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>Hitting with Bloom Trigger on standing opponent will slide them.

doesn't this mean Bloom Trigger after 6D still wallbounces? It seems to only slide "On standing opponent"

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lol I like how C Haida has gone full circle. From 110% damage to same-move proration.

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BTW: can anyone else be happy about this? 6A 2B 6A 2B 6A 6B shinnanigans!!

I hope that the 6A on crouchers stay. It kinda sucks that only Tager / Hakumen. Dashins are... acceptable... off of 5A, 2A, and 2B (because you can "protect" your dash in with a 2C counter-hit currently). With 6A -> 2B -> 6A, and 6A -> 6B, we have something to make sure our opponents are actually paying attention for once. I think that small change will greatly improve Noel's pressure.

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I'm wondering if I should stop being naive and wishing for Noel to get better and concede to the fact that she'll probably never be decent again.

I'll still play her, but I'll be damned if it doesn't seem like Arc System Works has no idea what to do with her most of the time.

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