[CT-CS2] Carl Clover Loke Test

[Mikachiru]

BB:CS V1.0

1st Loketest- Septemeber 26, 2009

+

~ 214C cancel remains

~ Nirvana recovers HP faster

~ 214214D super does 3K damage and removes two guard primer points on block

~ new projectile is fast and reaches the corner; it's a laser

~ 8D is not air techable

~ no change to 2D 4D 6A, glide throw, Gear DD

~ IAD J.2C cross up still possible

~ J.2C, Alle~can is still a Throw bait/low crush

~ 5A links to 2A

~ 623C has longer range

~ J.B has great downward hitbox, wall bounces on counter, and links to JA

~ 6D has longer hitstun and you can do {J.2C > J.236C > B > C > jc > 6D} loop

~ 623D has guard point and barrier guard blockable in the air; advantage on block

~ 63214D is untechable.

-

~ J2C is no longer an overhead; slow

~ Air throw loop exists, but can only be performed once before Nirvana dies

~ Teching out of 2C is easier

~ Can't Jump Cancel after 5B when blocked (must rely on 2B in attack strings)

~ Nirvana loses HP faster

~ 8D has been altered (Not sure what this means, but I think it's no longer in the game...).

~ Air Throw BnB is removed because 2C has less hitstun

~ 3C --> IAD --> J.2C combo no longer works; J.2C has a slower start up

~ Removed a guard primer point on first hit on 236236D

~ 63214D doesn't throw opponent far away

2nd Loketest- October 3, 2009

A - able to link to 2A, up to 2 loops

2A -　

6A -

JA -

B - not able to jump cancel on block

6B -

2B -

JB - more hit box in vertical direction, hit opponent far back on CH

C -

6C -

2C - easier to tech

3C -

JC -

J2C - not an overhead, speed decreases

D -

6D - existing 6D loop can be done up to 2 loops

2D -

4D -

3D -

8D -

JD -

236A -

236B - longer recovery time

623C - bigger hitbox in the front

J214C - 214C cancel remains

Volante - new move, nirvana shoots out the projectile, fast, unlimited range, lasts even Carl blocks opponent's moves

41236D -

63214D -

623D - able to block with air barrier, armor property of nirvana takes up to 2 hits

236236D - 1st hit breaks 1 guard primer

214214D - breaks 2 guard primers

AH -

Throw -

Air Throw -

CA -

Other

- forward step has longer recovery time

- forward step can be canceled by J214C

- all D moves use a lot of nirvana meter

- recovery speed of nirvana after broken is same as current version

- recovery speed when stopping nirvana is very fast

- current air throw loop does not work, similar one can be done using different way, but not able to do 100% combo

- nirvana will stop if opponent does throw break

- no change to glide throw

3rd Loketest- October 16, 2009

6C -overhead

2D -overhead

J.A -overhead, More recovery

J.B -overhead

J.C -overhead

Volente ~560 proceed with small combo.

1) ↓A > ↓B > ↘C > jump ↓C > C > air combo

2) ↓A > ↓B > →B > →↓↘C > B > air combo

carl has 4 primers.

hop is slower (slower or more recovery? I thought it was confirmed to just be more recovery), can cancel into special, foot disappears (not sure if foot invun applies), can hop over downed opponent (i think that's what it meant), air rhapsody and generaru cancel unconfirmed (would be pretty cool if the previous also applies).

volante is projectile, start-up is 20F, full stage, damage is 560. Combo starter scaling at 80%, cannot tech on air hit, will not disappear if Carl guard, nirvana no longer have projectile armor (I'm not sure if this is right because it seems like it doesn't have to do with anything else in the sentence).

jC can be jump cancelled

2D is faster

8D no longer guaranteed activation, still works off throw loop set up (break throw I guess).

jB is applicable as cross-up

Brio has foot armor (it didn't before?)

back throw scaling is 79%.

-Nirvana can rapid fire volante 3 times, 8D 5 times before breaking down. (no change, I think)

-Nirvana recovery from breaking down is 15 seconds. Have not checked regular recharge speed.

-Carl's hop allows him to go past downed opponent (pretty cool change), still has a bit of recovery (not cool).

-Can do specials, but not nirvana supers during hop (the guy mentioned he may just have screwed up input, so they will try to reconfirm).

-Something about jB that I'm not sure...

4th Loketest- October 23, 2009

Brio can be regular guarded in air (i think that's what it says)

2A>5B>6B>canta>volante>5C>JB>JC>JB>JC 2065

2A>2B>3C>J2C>alle>5C>JB>JC>JB>JC 1600

~3C>input volante>hit downed opponent with 2B>volante hits>5C~ Air combo after 5C not confirmed.

(neesan behind carl)2A>5B>6B>canta>2D>A viva(?)>2C>8D>volante>5B~ (jB doesn't combo afterwards so so knockdown after volante may be a good idea)

6C startup feels the same

focco, 3D no change

Volante > 2A 664

has step jump... holy moly I'm pretty sure I read this right 'ステジャンプ' (this is big change, this can open up quite a few things for carl)

step jump covers 1/3 of screen

step cancel into alle isn't hard, but no use found thus far

ground target jb > jC does not combo (same as CT)

This thread is for updates and discussion so that our Carl General Discussion thread doesn't get over-stuffed with Loketest stuff (especially for noobs who want to know more about Carl but end up with a face full of "XXX was nerfed! Oh noes!" or "XXX combo can't be performed anymore!!"). Any information that I missed would be greatly appreciated.

[Kyle]

BB:CS V2.0

1st Loketest- September 9th 2010: JAMMA Festival

2B>5B gattling added cannot re-input 2B)

ada's gauge recovers slower

2nd Loketest- October 9th 2010:

+ anima has super armour. when hit will flash red

+ 3D forces downed opponents to rise. After ground throw 3C can be used to pick up and combo

+ 8D breaks 1 guard primer

- 8D can be blocked in air

3rd Loketest- October 15th 2010:

-3C launches higher, techable. Can combo into jB if close enough.

+ 8D air-unblockable again (barrier works).

+ 5C CH proration still same, 8D has different same-move proration on the clap and wave, so it does more damage.

4th Loketest- October 23rd 2010:

+Folka guaranteed to come out

+8D breaks 2 primers

-Anima lost it's super armour

-J2C bounce height has increased

ZONG EDIT-

5th (final?) Loketest- November 15th, 2010:

Posted/Translated by Akanishi (thxbtw.)

Here are all the changes

+姉移動が素早い (Doll moves faster)

+JCで相手を叩き落とす (with JC you can drop your opponents)

+アニマの浮きがかなり高く受け身不能に (anima's float is higher, untechable)

+ヴォランテモーションに弾アーマー付加 (volante has projectile armor)

+カンタータの発生早く (cantata is faster)

-全体的な火力の大幅減 (damage nerfed significantly)

-姉コストが全体的に増加 (Sis cost is higher overall)

-Aヴィヴァーチェの無敵削除 (a vivace has no invincibility)

-投げの威力600に (throw is 600dmg)

-ヴォランテに同技乗算付加 (same move proration added to volante)

-ブリオの吹っ飛ぶ軌道が遠くに (brio sends opponents flying further away)

-JBのフェイタル削除 (J.B CH no longer Fatal)

source http://generalnantoka.blog35.fc2.com/blog-entry-405.html#cm

Carl JC is the move does knock down

J2C is exactly the same

JC kd> 3D relaunch confirmed

[Zoogstin]

I'm fine with that no, complaints. We have a few more loke tests to go though. We'll see how things change.

[ZONG_one]

"Most CS combos don't seem to work anymore."

Only time will tell, guys.

Let's not complain like everyone else yet. lol.

[Angel]

I didn't like the infinite in CT, so I love the new Carl. I just hope I can learn him really well before they change things.

2B>5B gattling added cannot re-input 2B)

5B does less damage than 5C and 6B, it prorates the same as 6B, but worse than 5C. Would this just be handy for spacing and style points?

ZONG EDIT: One day I'll learn. D:

[ZONG_one]

Think on block, not on hit.

I would think it's because 2B, 5C, and 6B aren't jump cancellable on block. (If that's not the reason, it will still help.)

So instead of being at a dead end if they block 2B and you're not near nirvana, you can re-gatling back to 5B and gtfo.

[Kyle]

Thinking about it a lil more, I have the impression they kinda ignored Tager & Carl during loc. test-1. I have a feeling we will some numerous changes in loc.#2.

[The Noble Clap]

Now we has better combo (maybe) from gatling.

Maybe 5B-2B-5B-whatever.

That might be around 1000 before air or ada is put in to this.

Theory fighter time guys?

Maybe we can use it to gtfo on block.

See 5B blocked? 2B-5B IAD back.

And we can IAD after 2B-5B for a j.C overhead.

Maybe.

This could be an epic improvment to solo Carl.

Wat do about Rachel?

Sounds like the King is back.

[Zoogstin]

Carl really doesn't need anymore improvements. He's retarded enough as is.

[The Noble Clap]

True but still.

[JG]

I dont want any change to Carl, he is just perfect like this. Not overpowered like bang and lichi and need hard work to be good with him not like lichi.

I hope that they add more jump on block moves.

[kaworu]

Carl

•2B>5B gattling added cannot re-input 2B)

•Ada's gauge recovers slower

•Untechable time on moves have changed, combos that work in v1.x does not work anymore

•j.B has less untechable time (needs more info)

Not looking forward to how the changes are gonna affect his combos, namely the 3rd one.

I imagine it could be in reference to 2]D[ or maybe even Allegretto's untechable time.

It's early days and i fear it will only get worse for Carl, as with the other good characters being nerfed so hard i imagine if Carl stayed the same he would end up being pretty damn beastly.

[ZONG_one]

There are still more loketests to come. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Eshi]

there really isn't anything to discuss about the third change until we actually know what move/s are different and to what extent the effect is.

However, 2B > 5B gatling is a nice addition.

[Mascarpone]

I think they just want to nerf the 6-7k 50 heat gain juggles. ground unblockable setup -> 7k damage when you think about it IS a little bit over the top.

if they keep the unblockables and let you get 3-4k that's still pretty good.

[ZONG_one]

3-4k is random hit bnb, and should remain so, unless you want a B- tier character.

Actually working for unblockable set up with a good starter is hard, and BLOCKABLE among good players.

I think that work should pay off if it hits.

The heat gain is kinda over the top.

But hey, I never complained lol.

[JG]

I dont wanna lose Carl juggles, they rock..

Plz Arkys goddess dont make Carl lose his charm hahaha.

[The Noble Clap]

lol.Lifted the conversation.

Didn't know you could do that.

Also: Please don't nerf Allegretto at all

6k 50 heat is nerfable. Don't take Allegretto. Or allecan

[ZONG_one]

Lol, like they listen to american requests.

But..

Carl would be unplayable without allecan.

I don't think you'll have to worry about that.

[Mascarpone]

I do worry about allegretto...

[Casshern]

The balancing they've done to Caruru has been pretty sparse compared to some other members of the cast. I wouldn't worry too much till much later when we're looking at the logs for the 2nd and 3rd loctest. (Given that they want this released in japan by THIS WINTER or so, I can't really see them doing anymore than 2 or 3 loctests. If they delay it to work on some problems the main JP community is voicing, then we could very well see a 4th loctest to go in place of that release frame) <---- Not saying that would matter with the new update system from Taito.

[Mascarpone]

3-4k is random hit bnb, and should remain so, unless you want a B- tier character.

Actually working for unblockable set up with a good starter is hard, and BLOCKABLE among good players.

I think that work should pay off if it hits.

The heat gain is kinda over the top.

But hey, I never complained lol.

Oh also i find UB reset difficulty character specific XD. depends on if you can jump loop them or not really lol.

And i've never played Carl for tiers XD i just love that top hat and his crafty tactics.

[ZONG_one]

If he's a bad character, I won't play him lol.

Based on his design, I think he either has to be really solid, or complete shit, similar to Arakune.

This is all imo, of course, but yeah.

[Mascarpone]

No you're right really. his mechanics do not really allow for mid tier. it's all or nothing lol. I just have never picked characters on their tier. it's about 60% aesthetic 30% fun to play 10% are they strong. And i kinda like that i stumbled on a very technical very powerful character :3

[ZONG_one]

I stumbled upon him as well. It was 100% "omfg a robot."

I just won't go through what rachel players went through.

I'm still in "wait and see" mode to be honest.

I'm confident Carl is a character ASW actually knows what they want to do with, unlike others..

(Tager lol.)

From CT > CS they did a great job. Here's hoping they will balance him nicely.