[CS1] Valkenhayn Technical Discussion

[STenSatsu]

I think it has to do with their height relative to yours. 7c when they are equal or below and 5c when they are slightly higher seems to work best for me personally.

[GenoWhirl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs-dGchLq-s

A video I've been working on for a few days now. I'm sure some of it will be obsolete (Note, may already be?) but some of it might be worth mentioning / updating to the combo listing.

Oh look! A 6A Combo!!!

[Ronove]

For those still having issues with 7C > [w]j.B > [w]j.B > land > D > 5B, you can instead do 4C > [w]j.B > [w]j.B > [w]5B > [w]j.AAA > j.DC

it will net a little less damage but it's easier to execute.

Example:

antiair CH 2C > 5C > j.B > j.214B > 5D > 236A > 236B > C > [w]j.B > [w]j.B > [w]5B > [w]j.AAA > j.DC

nets 4.3k meterless, 37% meter gained

[STenSatsu]

Doesn't allow the ground super though which means you lose like 200-300 damage on top of whatever you lose from doing that variation. =(

[Ronove]

Yeah, which is why I said you'll net less damage.

However it's way easier to execute, so in case people still haven't got confident with the other string they can use that one and still deal reasonable damage. Knowing a few more practical combos doesn't hurt.

[GenoWhirl]

CH 5B > 6B > 3C > 236B > RC > 2C > j.DAAA > j.236A > j.236B > C > j.B > j.B > 5B > (SJC) > j.DA > j.B > j.214B > 9DD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (4.8K Damage, 51% MG. 38 Meter required. If too far use 5C instead of 2C for less damage/mg)

Meh, no reason to use this over 5B > 5C > 236A Rapid...

[JinSaotome]

Just a q about that last combo, when you do j.DA, is that human j.A? And if so, is j.B too slow there?

[King_Slime]

I'm having issues grasping this character. Execution-wise my biggest issue is human to wolf to human combos (the most simplest of which are featured in challenge mode and I can't even do those).

Another issue for me is continuing pressure from 5b > 5c > 236a, sometimes I get jabbed out before I can continue with 2a or I forget to mix it up and go into wolf. When I go for 5b > 5c > 236c, they usually just block high leading me to get punished. 5b > 5c > 236b seems to be the only ones working for me but it doesn't lead into anything as far as I'm aware.

And the final things I'm having trouble with is basic combos, the ones in these matches seems easy enough to learn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akkHjv-30Tk) but what are some of Valk's BnB's or must know combos? Approaching the enemy is another issue I'm having.... j5c > 5b > 5c seems to be the way to go. Does the j5c have to be a ch for the 5b to combo?

Thanks for the help guys!

[Ross]

If your having execution problems just practice more, there isn't really any tricks to his combos. They just sort of work. As for approach, thats every valks biggest problem. Some good ways to cover distance fast and still be able to block are too j.d,j.c,j.d, then depending on where you expect your opponent to be you either block, [h]j.b or [h]j.c. To cover a different range you can do j.d dash, j.d then do the same list of options, it makes for a different float than doing a wolf transform c to untransform. Also after a 236+c you can pretty much make it safe on block with by wolf dashing back and then untransforming and barriering afterwards. There is more but it really just sounds like you need to play more and maybe check out some more vids (even though there aren't many)

Also I finally figured out how to add the super extension for my regular 236c combo!

So now when I have super the combo I use is

236C 9d, [w] j.a ~ j.b, b 236b x 2 5c ~ j.b, j.b, d [h]st.a, st.b xx super!

can do like 6.5k maybe more with the right starter. Adding the st.a makes it so you can hit that combo even when characters are a bit higher up and it would normally whiff.

[GenoWhirl]

Just a q about that last combo, when you do j.DA, is that human j.A? And if so, is j.B too slow there?

Yes, j.B will not hit in time

[Postulio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpQmMpsWYMI this (posted in the video section) shows how wolf is pretty much mandatory to keep the pressure on.

[Azzal]

In the corner for the [W] j.b, j.b relaunch combo I prefer using 5C instead of 7C, don't know why but it works better for me.

Just did a combo out of 6C in the corner which is better then the red marked in the first post, but I don't know if it's been already posted.

Anyway, here it is.

[h] 6C > 2C > j.214B > 6B > 2C > j.DAAA > j.236A > j.236B > 5C > j. B> j.B > land > 5DB >632146D (6314 damage)

[Ross]

Has anyone had any luck getting the timing for double super in the corner? I can't make it work!!

[Felicia]

Has anyone had any luck getting the timing for double super in the corner? I can't make it work!!

tiger knee Konig.

[King_Slime]

For a combo such as [w] j.236x>5cd>j.b>j.214b>9dd>j.b>dj.b>j.214b

the 5cd, I understand that's were you quickly do the wolf dash then cancel into human but as far as input goes, is it better to press them at the same time or just one after the other? The way people write it as "5cd" had me thinking both buttons have to be pressed at the same time....

[GenoWhirl]

One after the other.

[Yukikaze]

Iv started working my way through the list an this combo doesnt make sense:

2A > 2A > 5B > 632146D

2A>5B>DD does more damage

2A>2B>5B>DD is even better still

[Prototype-03]

Iv started working my way through the list an this combo doesnt make sense:

2A > 2A > 5B > 632146D

That combo was taken when loketest vids first came out. That one is definitely outdated... I think you can do wolf combos with 2A, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure you can also do 2A>5B>5C>DD and be better too.

[STenSatsu]

Red combos are the main ones you want to learn as I believe those are generally the best for that particular situation. I think you can also just do 2a>3c>2b>5c>etc.

[Postulio]

so i noticed with valks konig flug---

-if its done very close to the opponent and to the ground, it doesnt combo (its a 2 hit combo instead)

-if its done mid range and medium height, sometimes it only does 1 hit total (for 800 total damage)

is there a reason for this?...

[faultydefense]

This is nothing but combo vid fodder, but its neat

tager only fatal counter... (costs 50 bar, build 50 meter)

6B > 2C > j.d [w]b 3C j.b > 5d [h]b > j.d [w]b 3C j.b > 5d [h]b > j.d [w]b 3C j.b > 5b < j.d [h]b > j.214b~d > [w] 236a > 236b > 7C > j.b > j.b > 5d [h] b > 632146D

or 6B > 2C > j.b 3C j.b > 5b > j.b 3C j.b > 5b > j.b 3C j.b > 5b > j.b > j.214b~d > 236a > 236b > 7C > j.b > j.b > 5b > 632146D

(i hate annotating valk combos, so that second one has all attacks from wolf form in bold)

interesting thing to note, the distortion at the end is techable about 3 hits before the end, now most people wouldn't tech at all here and just eat the last of it, letting it blue beat, some will be mashing out and will eat the last hit after teching (if they don't tech the combo does 6300~, if they do tech and block the combo does about 5500~, if they tech and don't block they take the 5500~ and then another 2500 from the last hit)

[drzero7]

BTW, what are good zone, general strats with Valk? I can see hos 5B and 5C are good ranged pokes, (Wondering if Valk 5B is as good as Ragna's 5B, it got insane reach from what I can tell.) and use his wolf form to move around the screen fast since his human form is slow. (Also wolf form gives him mix-ups to instant overhead with [w]j.B or [w]236D for command grabs it seems)

[OrionXElite]

Valk's game should be relentless rushdown and mixup, it should make Ragna look like an idiot to an extent. Valk has Kara cancels and a 6 way dash in wolf form with the ability to change direction very quickly making it insanely hard to keep track of him. Mashing doesn't work either as you can bait anything like DPs with [w] 4/7C which has invul frames. Kara cancels from 6C and 236B make his mixup scary as you can cancel with 3D, land, command grab or you land and bait a jump with 5B which is an AA OR you could even bait the jump and do an air command grab :3

From there, well the rest is kinda free form. If you learn it well, Valk has FRKZ style mixup just in very short bursts. A prime goal should be to make it impossible for the opponent to know which side you're gonna hit from so an ideal situation is Kara into 9D and then hit [w]2C the moment you are directly over them. Makes it near impossible to know where to block let alone high, low or jump the grab. You could also go Kara 8D>[w]3C and make it an ambiguous crossup from the front rather than top.

AND from there, you have even more Wolf Dash shenanigans to be had! if you Kara 9D and hit [w]1C when right above the enemy, you land back in front of them for a feint crossup and it will prevent them from trying to just run out from under you.

You just need to be cautious of your Wolf meter usage as going for stronger mixup will net you less overall damage. So thats where his trade off is, Heavier mixup vs. Heavier damage UNLESS you hit command grabs which allow refreshed mixup into whatever. I fucking love this old bastard!

[drzero7]

Valk's Kara Cancels are his wolf cancels your talking about right? So what CAN cancel into wolf form. for what I know

236A/B/C

j214B

6C

From what I'm reading, Valk's mix-ups are like Bang's bumper mix-ups without the bumpers but with wolf form. His low move 2B is slow IMO but I guess a 236B into Wolf cancel mix-up is the better high-low mix-up option for pressure from what I'm reading from your post.

[Ronove]

@drzero

Kara = empty

His kara cancels are done when you wolf cancel a move before it actually connects (usually done in the startup frames). In Valk's case so far it should be 6C and 236B, since both have long startup which allows for these moves to be wolf-canceled before hitting the opponent.