[CS1] Valkenhayn Technical Discussion

[ryu-bi]

if I suppose to do a ground launcher into j.DAAA but missed the D and autopiloted j.AAA as human form, what can I do after that?

[dooku]

if I suppose to do a ground launcher into j.DAAA but missed the D and autopiloted j.AAA as human form, what can I do after that?

If the combo proration isn't too bad, you can follow up with dj.B > j.214B > 5D > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A for knockdown. If you don't want to use wolf for that, you can just get knockdown by ...> dj.B > j.C. If the proration is bad, they can tech before the dj.B hits them.

For example:

5B > 3C > (walk) > 2B > 5C > sjc.AAA > dj.B > j.214B > 5D > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A will do 2870 damage and net 37% MG.

But if you start with 5A, they can tech after the sjc.AAA before you can do anything (other than dj.AAA it looks like). But if you can confirm you screwed up quickly, you can do something like:

5A > 5B > 3C > walk > 2B > 5C > sjc.ADA > j.236A > j.236B > j.214A for 2280 damage, 29MG, and knockdown.

Basically, don't screw up the transform if you can help it, but if you do and the combo isn't long and you didn't start with a bad p1 move then you can go for knockdown. I was trying to figure out a way to get to a double [w]j.B combo, but the ways I've found either put you too high or too low to do anything after landing. The proration would be ass anyways, so land 5B > anything probably wouldn't work anyways, but it was worth looking into.

Tested these on Hazama, they might be character dependent.

[Guardian]

Well FaultyDef kinda spoiled one of my combos, but here's another off of the j.C fuzzy, don't think it's been posted (100% meter req, works midscreen):

j.C, j.236236C, RC, 5D, 236A, j.AAA, 236A, 236B, 3CD, j.B, 214B, 9DD, j.B, j.B, j.C. 5.3k+

[Ross]

I feel like if you are going to end with super anyway alot of valks longer combos are kind of useless if you can just sneak in enough big hits before hand. so for instance if you hit, 2a,3c in the corner you net around the same amount of damage as a longer harder relaunch combo that is really timing specific by just doing, 2a,3c,2c xx tk 214b, 6b, 2c xx transform super. This happens alot in various valk combos.

Also Ive been trying to find a more consistent way to land super off my regular 236+C relaunch, while I found you can sometimes get a st.a,st.b after the falling [w]j.b,b its not consistent at all as I can't even get it one in 10 tries in training mode. So I came up with a new idea based on atg's dash loop

st.c xx 236+c 9d [w]j.a ~ j.b,5b (jump cancel up back) f,f+j.b (insta dash forward j.b) ~ j.a 5d [h] 2c, j.b xx 214+b 9DD, j.b, dj.b, j.c xx super for like 4500 (very similar damage to doing that after a long combo while still in the air)

in the end though im hoping to find a better ender that is something like [h] 2c xx tk 214b 6b, 5b xx super Ive gotten everything up to the 6b but keep messin gup the last part, I believe this will be one of his most damaging 236+c enders and it should work midscreen!

[faultydefense]

longer combos will be building the bar needed to super and tend to push to corner better

[Ross]

I tested two corner combos just to figure out some damage

First Valk corner 2b, 3c

2b,3c, 2c jc j.b xx 214b 9dd [w] j.a xx 236a, 236b, 7D, j.b j.b, 5D [h]5b super does 4804

2b,3c, 2c, 6b, 2c tk 214b 5c does 4900.... so much easier combo does more damage, of course slightly more distance specifc but you can make some changes to make it work even from further away.

Now for the second combo after throw

Throw, dash 2c 6b 2c jc j.b 214b [blah blahb blah standard wolf bullshit] into ground super does 5477

throw dash 2c 6c, 2c, late tk 214b, 6b, 5c does 5250ish

so really your losing only about 200 damage for what is a much easier combo with no wolf meter.

Edit: Well I finally got the combo to work semi consistently on tager....I think it works against everyone but its really hard.

this works from basically any shortish string to 236c though I'll post the most damage I got...

ch 5b, 6b, 5b, 5c, 236+c 9dd, [w] j.a ~ j.b, 5.a, 5.b jump dash j.b, j.a 5d, [h] 2c, tk 214b, 5c xx super for 5573

this combo should work on the whole cast, but its excution diffculty may make it prohibitive as you must hit the first j.a, j.b so the opponent stays high in the air after the relaunch otherwise they will hit the ground to fast to get the j.a to start the second relaunch, still it looks sick and is probably the best damage...

Another edit: I found out that you can actually stick a 5a before the 5b in the above combo so you don't have to hit them as early as possible with the first [w]j.a making this alot more stable, thought it does make following up with the 2c tk 214b,5c harder, so you can just finish with 5b xx super for like 5100 damage. I have noted this in bold above.

[BatousaiJ]

What's a good combo to do after RC wolf command grab on the ground while midscreen? I'm finding myself going into (w)236D -> RC -> 5C -> and going into standard 6C follow up(easier to connect though).

But given the window of opportunity, it feels like there's much more that I can do at that point.

[Ross]

Hmm I haven't really looked into wolf command grab midscreen cause I prefer to save the meter rather than rc it... I can do some checking. If I had to guess though since you can pick people up off the ground after wolf grab. If 5c gets you over there you could do something like

grab rc, 5c, d, [h]2c, blah blah blah. this is of course just a wildly unfounded guess.

[NickExtreme1]

Latest vid on the video posting thread, am I wrong or does it look like Wolf Form Valkenhayn is immune to Tager's magnetism? (I can't really tell, damn good Valk player dancing around Tager O_O )

[Coinage]

Corner

[h] 2C> Dash > 2C > 6B > 3C > 2C > 6C > 2C > j.214B > 5D > 5B > j.236B > j.236A > j.236B > j.CD > j.B > j.C > j.236236C 7515 Damage

[BatousaiJ]

Hmm I haven't really looked into wolf command grab midscreen cause I prefer to save the meter rather than rc it... I can do some checking. If I had to guess though since you can pick people up off the ground after wolf grab. If 5c gets you over there you could do something like

grab rc, 5c, d, [h]2c, blah blah blah. this is of course just a wildly unfounded guess.

The only reason I'm looking for a good one is that I find myself in a situation where I can end the match if I do another 2k ish damage after wolf command grab on the ground and it'd be nice if I can get 4.2k ish damage combo(total) off the grab. I can only do around 3.4 k ish off that so far and feel like I should be able to do more.

[Death134dzhonor]

The only reason I'm looking for a good one is that I find myself in a situation where I can end the match if I do another 2k ish damage after wolf command grab on the ground and it'd be nice if I can get 4.2k ish damage combo(total) off the grab. I can only do around 3.4 k ish off that so far and feel like I should be able to do more.

Have you done his challenges?, or are you looking for a different combo? His Challenge #9 uses a Wolf grab>RC combo that does 4.7k without the super, 5.8 with it. I'm pretty sure it can be done anywhere too.

[STenSatsu]

Ya, his challenge combo is a good one. I just do an easier version with 2b>5c instead of 2c>6b>2c (pretty easy to fuck up the timing on stopping wolf dash for the 2c combo) for like 4.2k personally since it's such an infrequent situation.

[BatousaiJ]

Have you done his challenges?, or are you looking for a different combo? His Challenge #9 uses a Wolf grab>RC combo that does 4.7k without the super, 5.8 with it. I'm pretty sure it can be done anywhere too.

Ya, I didn't like how inconsistent I was with it so I made my own that was easier but was much less damage. I was looking for an alternative that was somewhere in the middle of those two.

Ya, his challenge combo is a good one. I just do an easier version with 2b>5c instead of 2c>6b>2c (pretty easy to fuck up the timing on stopping wolf dash for the 2c combo) for like 4.2k personally since it's such an infrequent situation.

I tried this one, pretty easy to execute and does solid damage, I think I'll work off this one I think, thanks.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I tested two corner combos just to figure out some damage

First Valk corner 2b, 3c

2b,3c, 2c jc j.b xx 214b 9dd [w] j.a xx 236a, 236b, 7D, j.b j.b, 5D [h]5b super does 4804

2b,3c, 2c, 6b, 2c tk 214b 5c does 4900.... so much easier combo does more damage, of course slightly more distance specifc but you can make some changes to make it work even from further away.

Or you could do...

2B-3C, 2C-6B, 2C, JC j.B -> 214B, 5D, [w]236A, 236B, 7D, j.B, j.B, 5D, [h] 5B -> super for 5563

Now for the second combo after throw

Throw, dash 2c 6b 2c jc j.b 214b [blah blahb blah standard wolf bullshit] into ground super does 5477

throw dash 2c 6c, 2c, late tk 214b, 6b, 5c does 5250ish

so really your losing only about 200 damage for what is a much easier combo with no wolf meter.

Another example would be...

Throw, dash 2C-6B, 2C-6C, 2C, HJC hj.5D, [w]j.AAA -> 236A, 236B, 7D, j.B, j.B, 5D, [h]5B -> super for 5929

Though I can kind of see where you are coming from, especially with combos that cost no wolf meter, though in the case of the corner combos, I think it's slightly irrelevant unless you're straight up out of wolf meter and your bar is exed out.

[Ross]

yeah i actually found more damaging non wolf variations now as well. similar to your stuff just less wolf.

[GenoWhirl]

I beleive that new Shadow-Valk extension on the tager vid is super sexy and thus I have adapted it.

(h) 2C > 6B > 3C > 2C > 6C > 2C > j.214B > Land 5D > 236B > j.236B > 7C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.B > 3C j.A > Land 5D > 5B > 632146D (7887 Damage, Builds 46 Heat)

There are probably better options, but I'll be damned if I don't love that extension

[NeonCrusader]

Corner combo, 10.3k. 100 meter required to start, corner only; 150 meter used in all.

j.236236C, RC, 2C, 6B, 2C, 6C, 2C, j.214B, 2D, land, 236A, land, 236B, j.236B, j.236A, 5C, j.B, j.B, land 5D, 5B, 2C, j.DB, 3C, j.A, land 5D, 5B, 632146D.

Not sure how easy it'd be to land a j.236236C in the corner, but yeah. Thing has stupidly good proration values.

[geist]

Corner combo, 10.3k. 100 meter required to start, corner only; 150 meter used in all.

j.236236C, RC, 2C, 6B, 2C, 6C, 2C, j.214B, 2D, land, 236A, land, 236B, j.236B, j.236A, 5C, j.B, j.B, land 5D, 5B, 2C, j.DB, 3C, j.A, land 5D, 5B, 632146D.

Not sure how easy it'd be to land a j.236236C in the corner, but yeah. Thing has stupidly good proration values.

why not try it with j.C at the beginning, since IIRC you can fuzzy guard it

or maybe 6C fatal->super?

[NeonCrusader]

6C fatal brings the damage down by about 2k when I tried it; haven't done it off of jC, but more than likely it'd do a lot less damage because of proration and not being able to do quadruple konig wolf.

[geist]

6C fatal brings the damage down by about 2k when I tried it; haven't done it off of jC, but more than likely it'd do a lot less damage because of proration and not being able to do quadruple konig wolf.

I would still think it's better than trying to land a naked super in the corner, yeah? >.>

[NeonCrusader]

Usability wise, obviously. Though I have managed to land the 10.3k in a match by baiting an anti-air, which probably wouldn't be easy at all against better players

[Izanagi SOL777]

any combos that'll help me learn how to use his wolf and human transition?

[Coinage]

any combos that'll help me learn how to use his wolf and human transition?

For a beginner I think

mid-screen

3C > B > C > J.B > J.214B > 7or9D (Depending on the direction of your opponent, you want to follow them)> J.AA > 236A > 236B > 5CD > J.B > DJ.B > J.C.

I believe this might be a basic combo to learn if you want to transition from human to wolf form and back

[Izanagi SOL777]

I think you mean 3C > 2B but anyways thanks!