[CS1] Valkenhayn Technical Discussion

[OrionXElite]

Is there any tips on reverting back to valk from his wolf form timing after 7c>b>b ?? D: I'm having a really really hard time with this I don't know why.

The only real reason this is a hard thing to do is because you can't quite tell when you hit the ground every time and various factors like height and midscreen vs corner can effect that as well. Heres my best advice, when you use the 7C>j.B>j.B combo, make sure you hit the second j.B right around where Valk's tail meets his abdomen then wait for like half a second, then hit D. Its quite tricky really but its all about getting used to the spacing and timing.

However, I DO know of a way to do that kind of setup that is a lot easier to revert back into Human and end combos properly. Instead of using the 7C>j.B>j.B combo, try this: Starter>Combo filler>[W]5C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>Jump Cancel>j.B>3C>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>Ender

Enders can be the following: [H]2C>Jump Cancel>j.B>dj.B>dj.C>Konig Flug(Optional) Or just [H]5B>Sturm Wolf if you wanna end the combo.

The thing that makes this easier is the fact that you don't need to pay as much attention to your location relevant to the ground as you do the other combo. Only downside is it can be a bit tricky execution wise. But it also gives you quite a bit of extra meter if you go for the air ender into a reset. But one other thing about it is that it doesn't always work depending on the combo up to that point. It usually works but there are a few cases where it won't so its something to keep in mind.

Also another air-to-ground relaunch you can do while it only lets you end in air super is [W]5C>j.B>j.B>Land5B>Jump Cancel>D>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C>Konig Flug(Optional)

A lot more universal and if you go into air super, you only lose about 200 damage total.

[OrionXElite]

Soooooooooooo I'm just gonna leave this here:toot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIYFNZRnKCs

[NickExtreme1]

Tested Sturm Wolf > Sturm Wolf combo on the cast on a whim, seeing it works on Tager and Rachel; I found it also connects on Taokaka and Hakumen.

[Grimstar]

[h] 2C > 6B > 3C > 2C > 5C > j.B > j.214B > 9D > j.AA > j.236A > j.236B > CD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (> j.236236C) (5.2k (6.3k) Damage, 45% MG)

What's the easiest way to work on the latter half of this combo?

From the 9D on... I can do the first half easily, but now I just want to work on doing the CD > j.B part more.

[OrionXElite]

[h] 2C > 6B > 3C > 2C > 5C > j.B > j.214B > 9D > j.AA > j.236A > j.236B > CD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (> j.236236C) (5.2k (6.3k) Damage, 45% MG)

What's the easiest way to work on the latter half of this combo?

From the 9D on... I can do the first half easily, but now I just want to work on doing the CD > j.B part more.

Well the best way to work on this is to learn the fastest timing possible of the [W]j.236A/B for this combo. the CD>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C part of this particular combo is quite annoying as its height specific to the character and you have strict timing for everything to work right. Some characters you'd want to omit the second j.B and just go j.B>dj.C

Now for MY suggestion, tweak the combo a little bit to make it much easier in general. So instead of going 9D off of j.214B, do this ender:

j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>CD>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C There is practically no difference between this or the other aside from the difficulty. This one is MUCH easier. The j.236A>j.236B is a lot easier to work with and doing the CD>j.B is a lot less strict so long as you time the first j.B hits right on the low part of the hitbox.

[Grimstar]

Well the best way to work on this is to learn the fastest timing possible of the [W]j.236A/B for this combo. the CD>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C part of this particular combo is quite annoying as its height specific to the character and you have strict timing for everything to work right. Some characters you'd want to omit the second j.B and just go j.B>dj.C

Now for MY suggestion, tweak the combo a little bit to make it much easier in general. So instead of going 9D off of j.214B, do this ender:

j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>CD>[H]j.B>dj.B>dj.C There is practically no difference between this or the other aside from the difficulty. This one is MUCH easier. The j.236A>j.236B is a lot easier to work with and doing the CD>j.B is a lot less strict so long as you time the first j.B hits right on the low part of the hitbox.

Hmm... I'm having trouble just doing CD > j.B at all right now. What's the fastest way to launch them into this setup? TK the j.214B?

As in, how can I just practice doing the combo from [W]j.236A onwards? Faster than doing the initial portion of the combo.

[ATG Warlord]

Hmm... I'm having trouble just doing CD > j.B at all right now. What's the fastest way to launch them into this setup? TK the j.214B?

As in, how can I just practice doing the combo from [W]j.236A onwards? Faster than doing the initial portion of the combo.

wolf dash j.b > 5B > j.AAA > 236B > CD > j.b

[OrionXElite]

Hmm... I'm having trouble just doing CD > j.B at all right now. What's the fastest way to launch them into this setup? TK the j.214B?

As in, how can I just practice doing the combo from [W]j.236A onwards? Faster than doing the initial portion of the combo.

You can just go [W]5B>236B>j.236A>j.236B>CD>j.B if you want. Thats how I was grinding it out at first. Make sure you delay the D just a bit since you have to let the dash start before you switch back.

[ATG Warlord]

you can bait bursts during wolf mode .. 7C as soon as you see it.

like in wolf j.AAA .. they burst > you 7C > go right below them (can go back to human form) > new combo

Valk's air super is a reasonable burst bait .. used it today against someone (gotta be high enough to pick up a combo)

FC setup I found (inspired by jin's 6B): dash as if u would throw then 6C .. 6C goes above the ground so their throw will miss and you get a fatal.

comments, suggestions are welcome

[NickExtreme1]

you can bait bursts during wolf mode .. 7C as soon as you see it.

like in wolf j.AAA .. they burst > you 7C > go right below them (can go back to human form) > new combo

Valk's air super goes through bursts as well .. used it today against someone (gotta be high enough to pick up a combo)

FC setup I found (inspired by jin's 6B): dash as if u would throw then 6C .. 6C goes above the ground so their throw will miss and you get a fatal.

comments, suggestions are welcome

Sometimes when I read a burst coming while Valkenhayn is on the ground, I punish with Sturm Wolf; the invincible frames on start-up timed right go right through the burst and catch the opponent with a counter hit on the second hit.

[ATG Warlord]

cool I'll add this to my ground burst bait options

[OrionXElite]

Sometimes when I read a burst coming while Valkenhayn is on the ground, I punish with Sturm Wolf; the invincible frames on start-up timed right go right through the burst and catch the opponent with a counter hit on the second hit.

Ehhh...Its an alright burst punish. Problem is without the 1st hit, you only get about 2k. In most cases, you can use that meter for a much stronger punish. Block it, 5B>5C>236A>RC>etc combos can do around 5k and give you back almost all of the meter spent.

[Grimstar]

You can just go [W]5B>236B>j.236A>j.236B>CD>j.B if you want. Thats how I was grinding it out at first. Make sure you delay the D just a bit since you have to let the dash start before you switch back.

Cool thanks guys. I'll work on this some more tonight.

I've just been doing this combo in the meantime until I can get that CD working for me:

2C > 6B(2 hits) > 3C > 2C > 5C >JC > j.B > JC > j.B > 214B > 9D > j.AAA > j.236A > j.236B > etc etc.

It does about 5k I think. So it's at least viable, even if not optimal. I just need to work on comboing into DDs.

[OrionXElite]

Cool thanks guys. I'll work on this some more tonight.

I've just been doing this combo in the meantime until I can get that CD working for me:

2C > 6B(2 hits) > 3C > 2C > 5C >JC > j.B > JC > j.B > 214B > 9D > j.AAA > j.236A > j.236B > etc etc.

It does about 5k I think. So it's at least viable, even if not optimal. I just need to work on comboing into DDs.

Omit the bolded part and just go straight into j.236A by going [H]j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A etc. Thats the optimal way to go about it. Biggest reason is that the Wolf j.AAA prorates the damage quite a bit. So holding off on it or not even using it at all would be best.

[Grimstar]

Omit the bolded part and just go straight into j.236A by going [H]j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A etc. Thats the optimal way to go about it. Biggest reason is that the Wolf j.AAA prorates the damage quite a bit. So holding off on it or not even using it at all would be best.

hmm... tested it out.. this combo actually does more damage with the j.AAA in it. does 4904 with it, 4813 without. I assume the j.AAA's would prorate the Distortion heavily though...

Edit: Further experimenting... if I just do [W]j.236A > j.236b > C > j.B > delay slightly > j.B

the combo caps out at 5112.... is there a way to hit j.B 3 times? I'm only messing around with this for now, I'm getting pretty close to being able to just do the originally posted combo.

Double Edit:

[h] 2C > 6B > 3C > 2C > 5C > j.B > j.214B > 9D > j.AA > j.236A > j.236B > CD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (> j.236236C) (5.2k (6.3k) Damage, 45% MG)

^ Hell I'm basically exploring my way to that, lol. I'll just work on it.

T-T-T-T-TRIPLE EDIT!!! I'm still having trouble landing j.B after the CD part... I usually whiff it below them. What am I doing wrong?

[OrionXElite]

hmm... tested it out.. this combo actually does more damage with the j.AAA in it. does 4904 with it, 4813 without. I assume the j.AAA's would prorate the Distortion heavily though...

Edit: Further experimenting... if I just do [W]j.236A > j.236b > C > j.B > delay slightly > j.B

the combo caps out at 5112.... is there a way to hit j.B 3 times? I'm only messing around with this for now, I'm getting pretty close to being able to just do the originally posted combo.

Double Edit:

[h] 2C > 6B > 3C > 2C > 5C > j.B > j.214B > 9D > j.AA > j.236A > j.236B > CD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (> j.236236C) (5.2k (6.3k) Damage, 45% MG)

^ Hell I'm basically exploring my way to that, lol. I'll just work on it.

T-T-T-T-TRIPLE EDIT!!! I'm still having trouble landing j.B after the CD part... I usually whiff it below them. What am I doing wrong?

Huh...I thought it was less damage with the j.AAA in there. Oh well:keke:

As for whiffing the j.B, it means you're doing the CD part too soon. You have quite a bit of time to delay the CD to get the j.B accurate. Try timing it so Valk will appear in human form parallel to the opponent.

[Grimstar]

WOOOOW now I see the problem. Dang you're right you can delay that forever. So I'm hitting the j.B consistently now, but didn't realize until now you actually have to jump cancel it. I wasn't sure you could after all the wolf shenanigans you go through to get there lol. i'll have this down pretty soon, thanks for all the help

WOOOT!!!

Getting it 100% of the time now. Damn Valk does STUPID DAMAGE!!! haha

[OrionXElite]

WOOOOW now I see the problem. Dang you're right you can delay that forever. So I'm hitting the j.B consistently now, but didn't realize until now you actually have to jump cancel it. I wasn't sure you could after all the wolf shenanigans you go through to get there lol. i'll have this down pretty soon, thanks for all the help

WOOOT!!!

Getting it 100% of the time now. Damn Valk does STUPID DAMAGE!!! haha

Once I heard you were flying under them, it was an easy fix:keke: Glad to help

[Jais]

[w] 5B IAD j.A,j.B v 5B

I've been trying to come up with a way to deal big damage off of CH 236A when there is little to no wolf meter left

I've been able to connect

v 5D, 5C>sjc.B>j.C ( optional super )

v 5D, 5C>jc.D>j.A>236A>236B>214B

[6] 5B>236B>236B>236A>214B

[6] 5B IAD j.A>j.A v 5D 2C seems to work on lots of the cast and uses little to no wolf meter. I can't exactly get the 2C to connect low enough for 2C>6B but I'm working on stuffs ^^

Valkenhayn HOOOO!

[OrionXElite]

[w] 5B IAD j.A,j.B v 5B

I've been trying to come up with a way to deal big damage off of CH 236A when there is little to no wolf meter left

I've been able to connect

v 5D, 5C>sjc.B>j.C ( optional super )

v 5D, 5C>jc.D>j.A>236A>236B>214B

[6] 5B>236B>236B>236A>214B

[6] 5B IAD j.A>j.A v 5D 2C seems to work on lots of the cast and uses little to no wolf meter. I can't exactly get the 2C to connect low enough for 2C>6B but I'm working on stuffs ^^

Valkenhayn HOOOO!

Given how you have to pick it up, you won't get any really high damage unless you expend all your Wolf meter and even then, you'd top out like 5k at the most given the [W]236A has kinda shoddy proration. BUT, [W]236A CH is fantastic for heat gain. You can loop [W]5B>IAD>j.B>j.A a couple times and use almost no Wolf meter. If you wanted to avoid using Wolf Dashes at all costs, you won't get more than about 30 Meter. But if you use just one Wolf Cancel off of [H]j.214B, you can gain 47 Meter and still have half your Wolf gauge left :3 I came up with this just now:

[W]CH 236A>Walk forward>5B>IAD>j.B>j.A>Land>5B>IAD>j.B>j.A>Land>D>[H]2C>5C>JC>j.B>j.214B>5D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>j.214A/B Gets you 3123 Damage but a huge 47 Meter without draining all Wolf.

If you wanna save a little more meter but get less heat you can use:

[W]CH 236A>Walk forward>5B>IAD>j.B>j.A>Land>5B>236B>Delayed j.236A>j.236B>j.214A Gets you ~2900 Damage and about 35 Meter. Only drains about 1/3 of your Wolf so its good if you're cutting it close on a reset. Also [W]5B>IAD>j.B>j.A is a much more reliable filler to link into [H]5B>Sturm Wolf AND the IAD serves as a Neutral Tech Trap if you so choose. They Neutral Tech and you'll end up underneath them which is the perfect spot to hit them with the Command Grab :3

[Jais]

I've found something I'm happy with and it uses 1/5 of the wolf meter. This char is amazing.

CH [w] 236A, [4] 5B>jc.A>j.A>j.B>j.A v 5d, 5B>5C>jc.B>jc.B>j.C

[Guardian]

6B fatal in the corner:

6B[FC], 2C, 5C, 236B, RC, 2C, 6C, 2C, 2147B~1D, land, [w]236A, [w]236B, j.236A, j.236B, 7C, j.B, j.B, land 5D, 5B, 2C, j.9D~[w]j.B, 3C, [w]j.A, land, 5D, 5B, 632146D. 9.4k+

The meter building of doing 4x [w]236x is ridiculous. Put it in all your corner combos now.

[Vibe]

[h] 5B on Crouching Opponent > 5C > 236C > 9D > j.AA > j.236A > j.236B >7C > j.B > j.B > Land > 5D > 5B > 5C > j.B > j.214B > 9DD > j.B > dj.B > j.C (3.9k Damage, 48% MG)

Is there any trick to getting the j.B > Land > 5D > 5B part of this combo? Or am I just gonna have to learn it the hard way. With work.

[OrionXElite]

Easiest tip I have is this, when you're hitting the j.B>j.B part, try and make the second j.B hit where the Wolf's Tail meets his Body. Its a bit tricky, but that should put you at the right position to land and Transform back for the 5B to hit.

[Vibe]

Actually, that helped a lot. Thanks.