[CS1-CSE] Valkenhayn General Discussion

[Nakkiel]

[StarryShade]

yo I live in Canada, wtf is a scene? also mah combo video with that Valkenhayn combo pickup is coming out...in...71 minutes+liek an hour for processing from the time of this post. Easily leads to 5k from a 6C fatal and is STUPID easy. It's probably obvious what this pickup is considering I learned it form CS2...tis just I've never seen another Valk use it ever...I mean it's even good for height issues :e

Dat pickup.

Here's notation for it. 6C FC 5D 236A 236B j.5C j.B j.A 5B 2C hjc j.D j.B j.3C j.A 5D 5B 2C j.BBC j.236236C if you want damage...it hits for 5k iirc, possible midscreen and everything and is a stupid easy pickup, learned it from watching CS2 vids...don't know why more people don't use it.

[GenoWhirl]

Riley that was hilarious (and it even has Valk so it's ontopic!)

[StarryShade]

Huh? What does Nate's video have to do with mine nigga?

[GenoWhirl]

Guys, I think we have become too predictable, and we should go and try to create different blockstrings. There's this video where after Nacht Jager Valk gets blown up by Mami Circular.

Maybe we should only use one of 6B's hits. People are already IBing the second hit for free 5A into combo. We need imagination :U!

[Sahgren]

Guys, I think we have become too predictable, and we should go and try to create different blockstrings. There's this video where after Nacht Jager Valk gets blown up by Mami Circular.

Maybe we should only use one of 6B's hits. People are already IBing the second hit for free 5A into combo. We need imagination :U!

Getting hit by Mami Circular should only be happening if they read the Valk's 4D/7D, wolf cancelling straight forward into them for a quick j.A or j.B should beat that. Then they'd have to play the fun guessing game with the Valk over whether you're going to cancel forward or backwards, and have to react accordingly.

Isn't 6B still +8 on block? With the IB nerf, that should still be +5/6 on IB. I got really confused when the Valk got hit out of his 3C after that in the videos against Plat.

[GenoWhirl]

Huh, it IS +8 on block.

I may just have to say "that Valk was a scrub lol"

[GenoWhirl]

Seeing Valk lose in almost every match he's in is quite disheartening :I

[Sahgren]

Seeing Valk lose in almost every match he's in is quite disheartening :I

We're gonna have to break that mold ourselves then!

The Valk in the vs Plat matches you just linked was interesting; resets everywhere~. I just wish he'd had used a fricken super ender when it would've guaranteed a kill rather than going for another reset.

Edit: Ok, just watched the Haz matchwa, and it seems like it was the same Valk for both. It looks like he didn't know how to [w]5B > IAD > j.B > j.A or j.B > 3C > j.A, those drops didn't look intentional

I appreciate being able to see new ideas for resets, but I don't think I'll be trying [w]j.B > 2C > D > 6B all that often. j.C > falling D > c-grab on the other hand, doesn't seem like a horrendous idea to try when going for a c-grab reset.

[DJ_Blactricity]

Can someone explain how this valk made [w]j.A cancel into itself off a wolf dash. It happens around 57 seconds in the following video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBvRzcJYda8

Please don't post [w]j.A gatlings into itself because it shouldn't work that close to the ground.

[Sahgren]

Can someone explain how this valk made [w]j.A cancel into itself off a wolf dash. It happens around 57 seconds in the following video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBvRzcJYda8

Please don't post [w]j.A gatlings into itself because it shouldn't work that close to the ground.

He did [w]j.A > 5C/6C > j.A. Basically just wolf c-dash cancelled into a second j.A.

[DJ_Blactricity]

He did [w]j.A > 5C/6C > j.A. Basically just wolf c-dash cancelled into a second j.A.

How do you cancel the wolf dash startup though. I've tried that already.

[Sahgren]

How do you cancel the wolf dash startup though. I've tried that already.

I'm not entirely certain how he got it down fast enough so that there wasn't any visible movement for the c-dash, maybe he just got that one down pat, but just add a minuscule delay after you hit the C before going for another attack.

Edit: Nevermind, even using BB's buffering system I can't get it to come out that fast. They must've sped up how quickly you can cancel the c-dash *shrug*. Regardless, considering that both j.As had the exact same animation, I don't see any other way he could've done it.

[DJ_Blactricity]

I'm not entirely certain how he got it down fast enough so that there wasn't any visible movement for the c-dash, maybe he just got that one down pat, but just add a minuscule delay after you hit the C before going for another attack.

Edit: Nevermind, even using BB's buffering system I can't get it to come out that fast. They must've sped up how quickly you can cancel the c-dash *shrug*. Regardless, considering that both j.As had the exact same animation, I don't see any other way he could've done it.

Ok thanks I'll keep trying till it works.

[OrionXElite]

I know what it is, so the way the Dash works is you can cancel out of the Dash startup by hitting C and its does the Command "Brake." So in the video, Masashi utilized that for hit confirming purposes by doing the first j.A then canceling it into the Dash then immediately canceling the Dash with C and then doing another j.A. So I did it in Training Mode(Works in CS1 too) and the inputs are as such:

C(before the j.A)>j.A>C(Start the Dash)>C(Cancel the Dash)>j.A>5B>etc.

Shortened version would be: C-Dash>j.A>C>C>j.A Its a bit tricky but I've already thought up some dirty tricks to use it with. One big issue is that it isn't as useful in CS1 since the Dash takes way more Wolf Meter than CS2.

One important thing to note about this is that it can ONLY work off of the 5C Dash as the rest of them have committed startups. I'm going to a casuals session on Friday, if any of my matches get recorded I'll see if I can work this in and show some of the ideas I came up with for it.

Hope this helped clear things up:keke:

[zshippozx]

any xbl players wanna play me and teach me some things O:!?

[NickExtreme1]

any xbl players wanna play me and teach me some things O:!?

Hey, good games yesterday. Please don't feel frustrated at all about learning Valkenhayn as a new character, I was much like you when I first started playing him when he was released and definitely doesn't help with the new system changes in BBCS2, but at least you are learning him at the most opportune time.

I know I mentioned some of this in our exchange of messages yesterday, but here is what you should work on:

1) Movement

Valkenhayn's offense relies a lot on how he moves in both his human and wolf forms. Your human form movement was pretty good but you need some work on wolf form movement. Don't be afriad to be tricky with C dashes from time to time to get in and add to pressure.

2) Defense

I was surprised with how well your defense was with some of my mix ups, but as you probably noticed, blocking too much leads to getting wolf command grabbed.

Also, you fell for [w]5C > j.B a bit too much, remember [w]j.B is an overhead move, same with [h]6C.

3) Offense

As I mentioned in our messages, Challenge Mode combos are the basis for your offense with Valkenhayn. The more tricky and dirty things can be developed with practice in Training Mode.

(Valkenhayn Technical Discussion) <- Here is where you can find reliable combos with Valkenhayn and discuss any issues you may have with him.

(Valkenhayn Video Posting) <- Here you can see what people are doing with Valkenhayn. See something you like and feel free to steal it :bad:

Also work on using anti-airs more against jump-ins and wolf dashes(much easier to punish since wolf Valkenhayn can't block), 6A being the best along with 2C(less reliable in BBCS2 because of its head invincibility being removed).

And as a general suggestion, don't feel overwhelmed with all of this criticism, it is much better to work on the basics now and be generally familiar with Valkenhayn. That way, you can work on his more tricky stuff. We stated off exactly like you did, so we can all relate.

[zshippozx]

Hey, good games yesterday. Please don't feel frustrated at all about learning Valkenhayn as a new character, I was much like you when I first started playing him when he was released and definitely doesn't help with the new system changes in BBCS2, but at least you are learning him at the most opportune time.

I know I mentioned some of this in our exchange of messages yesterday, but here is what you should work on:

1) Movement

Valkenhayn's offense relies a lot on how he moves in both his human and wolf forms. Your human form movement was pretty good but you need some work on wolf form movement. Don't be afriad to be tricky with C dashes from time to time to get in and add to pressure.

2) Defense

I was surprised with how well your defense was with some of my mix ups, but as you probably noticed, blocking too much leads to getting wolf command grabbed.

Also, you fell for [w]5C > j.B a bit too much, remember [w]j.B is an overhead move, same with [h]6C.

3) Offense

As I mentioned in our messages, Challenge Mode combos are the basis for your offense with Valkenhayn. The more tricky and dirty things can be developed with practice in Training Mode.

(Valkenhayn Technical Discussion) <- Here is where you can find reliable combos with Valkenhayn and discuss any issues you may have with him.

(Valkenhayn Video Posting) <- Here you can see what people are doing with Valkenhayn. See something you like and feel free to steal it :bad:

Also work on using anti-airs more against jump-ins and wolf dashes(much easier to punish since wolf Valkenhayn can't block), 6A being the best along with 2C(less reliable in BBCS2 because of its head invincibility being removed).

And as a general suggestion, don't feel overwhelmed with all of this criticism, it is much better to work on the basics now and be generally familiar with Valkenhayn. That way, you can work on his more tricky stuff. We stated off exactly like you did, so we can all relate.

no not overwhelmed with the criticism am glad someones actually helping me out ^^ ive tryed to learn this game before but i dont have many friends that play this game and no one really to learn from so thanks again for the advice :D ill keep working on my valkenhayne to become good >:P

[NickExtreme1]

no not overwhelmed with the criticism am glad someones actually helping me out ^^ ive tryed to learn this game before but i dont have many friends that play this game and no one really to learn from so thanks again for the advice :D ill keep working on my valkenhayne to become good >:P

No problem at all, you have me as a friend on XBox Live, so you can play me whenever I'm on BBCS2.

[Andarel]

So, probably going to sub Valk now that CS2 is out, he's really fun. A few questions, though:

- I'm learning his BnBs, and I've noticed that your general paths are launch > [w]j.AAA > [w]j.236A strings. But there's also Mondlicht > [w]j.236A and [w]B > [w]236B > [w]j.236A. I see when to use Mondlicht (TK it after 2C), but when is it good to use the [w]236B launch followup?

But really, two major questions have popped up:

1) What is Valk's primary gameplan? I've been using a lot of 5B/2B/j.B in footsies to confirm into corner push or 236A RC stuff, with wolf form for pressure, but I'm not really sure if that's ideal for him. Pretty comfortable playing a poking game with him, but his defenses are so iffy that the risk/reward seems skewed.

2) What is your advice regarding 6A? I've been let down by it pretty often in terms of horizontal range, but it works well to beat moves that move at you quickly. I can pick up CH 6A with 5C, is the followup to that similar to the throw followup in challenge 7 (5C j.B Mondlicht > [w]j.236A) or is there something else?

Oh, and I guess last but not least - practiced the double [w]j.B relaunch, but it's still somewhat unstable for me. I guess my two questions are when can't you use double j.B and what do you do when their torso is below the wolf's head, and the combo has a risk of sending them backwards instead of along the falling arc?

Thanks.

[Sahgren]

So, probably going to sub Valk now that CS2 is out, he's really fun. A few questions, though:

- I'm learning his BnBs, and I've noticed that your general paths are launch > [w]j.AAA > [w]j.236A strings. But there's also Mondlicht > [w]j.236A and [w]B > [w]236B > [w]j.236A. I see when to use Mondlicht (TK it after 2C), but when is it good to use the [w]236B launch followup?

But really, two major questions have popped up:

1) What is Valk's primary gameplan? I've been using a lot of 5B/2B/j.B in footsies to confirm into corner push or 236A RC stuff, with wolf form for pressure, but I'm not really sure if that's ideal for him. Pretty comfortable playing a poking game with him, but his defenses are so iffy that the risk/reward seems skewed.

2) What is your advice regarding 6A? I've been let down by it pretty often in terms of horizontal range, but it works well to beat moves that move at you quickly. I can pick up CH 6A with 5C, is the followup to that similar to the throw followup in challenge 7 (5C j.B Mondlicht > [w]j.236A) or is there something else?

Oh, and I guess last but not least - practiced the double [w]j.B relaunch, but it's still somewhat unstable for me. I guess my two questions are when can't you use double j.B and what do you do when their torso is below the wolf's head, and the combo has a risk of sending them backwards instead of along the falling arc?

Thanks.

[w]5B > 236B is nice for when you want to control what direction you're going (ie: set it up so that you go the opposite direction you started in order to put them in the corner), since it allows for more damage than j.AAA.

[w]5B > 236B > j.236A > j.236B > 5C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.AAA > jc > D > j.C would get more damage and meter than:

[w]5B > j.AAA > j.236B > 5C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.AAA > jc > D > j.C but removes that nice hitconfirm buffer of the j.AAA.

You've pretty much already got Valk's gameplan in a nutshell. Footsies/spacing in human, mixup/pressure in wolf, with plenty of form switching as the situation demands it. His terrible defense has always been one of his big limiting factors, and the IB nerf along with the general increase in pressure isn't going to help that. The best defense with him is honestly to never be put on defense; it's tough, but he makes up for it with having an insanely powerful offense.

Dunno too much about the new 6A, since it was basically worthless in CS1 and thus never used. From what I do know, it's generally used as an AA alongside [w]5B and punishes obvious/predictable staggered pressure. It's risky though, so be careful and keep in mind that you can royally screw yourself over on whiff/block.

Another combo you can learn is:

CH 6A > 5C > jump > D > j.AAA > j.236B > 5C > j.B > j.B > 5B > j.AAA > jc > D > j.C. It's worth knowing for if you get of a CH 6A while in the corner since it'd turn you around and put the opponent in the corner.

The [w]j.B x 2 > 5B is used in everything as long as proration and height allows you to get it off. If you mistime the wolf cannons leading up to the 5C so they end up too far below you, just do [w]j.214A/B to knock them back down to the ground. If you're too close to the ground for j.B x 2, change the second j.B into a j.A so they don't hit the ground before you can land and relaunch.

Edit: Edited this waaaay too many times. If I forgot anything I'll cover it in a later post or have someone else fill it in.

[NickExtreme1]

6A is better in CS2 imo. You can actually combo into it for decent damage off a counter hit as opposed to CS1 when it was hard just to squeeze in j.B > j.214B. You can hit confirm CH 6A with 5C and combo into it midscreen as well. Range is still to be desired, but guard point is just as good as invincibility(lol 2C nerf).

[Andarel]

The other combo I was wondering about I saw in the a-cho videos, messed around with it and it seems useful:

[w]A [b j.B 3C j.A] xN

It gives low damage but great corner push, most of the way across the stage just about for free. Haven't seen it commonly used though - just because of its significant damage decrease? It's not that hard, but not sure how useful it is.

[NickExtreme1]

The other combo I was wondering about I saw in the a-cho videos, messed around with it and it seems useful:

[w]A [b j.B 3C j.A] xN

It gives low damage but great corner push, most of the way across the stage just about for free. Haven't seen it commonly used though - just because of its significant damage decrease? It's not that hard, but not sure how useful it is.

Generally wolf combos like that are used for both screen positioning as you pointed out as well as to gain more meter since moves in wolf mode gain a bit more meter. I'd say use it when the opportunity arrives, just use it sparringly since you would want the wolf meter for blockstring pressure and mix-ups more.

[dthboi]

Hello im new and trying to learn valkenhayn if anyone wants to play on xbox live im on a lot usually my gamertag is dthboi hope to see some of u online.