[CS1-CSE] Valkenhayn General Discussion

[StarryShade]

l didnt rage o.o in fact l was interested in what it is exactly you were saying. l mean, l dont speak jp so why send me a jp message lol.

anyway, so it's safe to say l should just learn him now, cause he's the same. huh...

You seemed mad. And it's because my PS3 is on JP mode, all I did was ask you where Mu-12 was ムー１２どこにるですか =P

And Valk's combos in general are the same, it's just different timings. And I use the 5B [w] anti-air already. Hell I use Wolf mode to BAIT things.

[GenoWhirl]

Did try double strum on Tager a couple of times but the second one seems to always drop in the middle .. maybe they decreased its proration in CS2? but it's a nice troll tool :P

No, that will always happen. DON'T do double Sturm unless you're 200% sure it'll kill him. He can easilly 720 you or something.

Also, I always just do 5C > j.B > Mondlitch after Airthrow .-.

[ATG Warlord]

like this :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ziKQPeFhk0

[StarryShade]

I don't know if anyone's thought of this or if this is widely known and I'm just retarded. But I watched one of Hima's CS2 videos and I discovered something, you can start wolf relaunches in mid-air. For example if you get a 6C fatal you can followup with this. 6C FC 6D j.236A j.236B j.5C j.B j.A (low to the ground) 5D 5B 632146D (4.8k) or 5D 5B 2C hjc j.B j.B j.C (3.6k)(34 heat fatal) (32 heat non fatal)

Pretty sweet for a midscreen 6C pickup imo...you can do it off a non fatal 6C also, you just need to stick a j.A in before the j.236A. Does about 200 damage less for both.

Using this pickup you can get up to 6.6k off a 2C starter CH or not into Naght Jager!! in the corner. That is a really good hitconfirm if you accidentally used Naght Jager in the corner

(crouching opponent) 5B 5C 236C j.236A (no delay whatsoever) j.236B j.5C j.B delay j.A 5D 5B 632146D (5k) or 5B 2C hjc j.B j.B j.C (3.8k)(37 heat)

If this was already known please give me an infraction because I'll feel like a huge idiot. I just have never seen ANY CS1 Valk use this pickup.

[OrionXElite]

I don't know if anyone's thought of this or if this is widely known and I'm just retarded. But I watched one of Hima's CS2 videos and I discovered something, you can start wolf relaunches in mid-air. For example if you get a 6C fatal you can followup with this. 6C FC 6D j.236A j.236B j.5C j.B j.A (low to the ground) 5D 5B 632146D (4.8k) or 5D 5B 2C hjc j.B j.B j.C (3.6k)(34 heat fatal) (32 heat non fatal)

Pretty sweet for a midscreen 6C pickup imo...you can do it off a non fatal 6C also, you just need to stick a j.A in before the j.236A. Does about 200 damage less for both.

Using this pickup you can get up to 6.6k off a 2C starter CH or not into Naght Jager!! in the corner. That is a really good hitconfirm if you accidentally used Naght Jager in the corner

(crouching opponent) 5B 5C 236C j.236A (no delay whatsoever) j.236B j.5C j.B delay j.A 5D 5B 632146D (5k) or 5B 2C hjc j.B j.B j.C (3.8k)(37 heat)

If this was already known please give me an infraction because I'll feel like a huge idiot. I just have never seen ANY CS1 Valk use this pickup.

Thing about his 6C is that despite it being a Fatal, it actually has some weird Proration. You'd be better off going for max damage by ending in Konig Flug instead of Sturm Wolf as most good long combos that can build its own 50 Meter into Sturm Wolf are techable after the last hit which is BAD. So ideally, going for full combos into Konig Flug will be better in most ways. You get more heat(About 60 if you go for Konig compared to about 48 going for Sturm) and you only lose about 500 damage so unless you're sure it'll kill, go for Konig. I use this off of 6C, works Fatal or Non-Fatal which is good:

6C>2C>JC>j.214B>Land>Forward Dash>2C>6B>2C>JC>D>[W]j.AAA>j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.B>3C>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>JC>j.B>dj.B>j.C

Does around 6.3K after Konig super and gets you about 60ish meter.

EDIT: Other really good thing about this, you only need to tweak a few things and it will work in CS2 which is that much less work when it comes to learning CS2 combos.

[Guardian]

Orion I have to say, doing [w]IAD j.B combos open up A LOT of possibilities with him. Truly a great find.

So, in the spirit of discoveries, I'll post some of mine:

1)You can get standing fuzzy guard setups in wolf vs Carl, Ragna, Tager, Hakumen, and himself. Any time one of them blocks a [w]5A up close, they are immediately in a 3 way guessing game:

-INSTANT [w]j.B hits as an overhead, which you can combo into 3C, [w]j.B, land, [w]5B, combo of choice

-[w]5A, 5B for low option

-command grab.

This is good because it makes any random close [w]5A insanely scary. Setup is mash/reversal/DP proof, b/c the [w]5A option beats any counter poke attempts, unless they IB (and even then it's REALLY hard to reversal).

1a)You also get all of these options on ANY character in the cast after a [w]j.B is blocked low to the ground(ie after a [w]5C dash). So even if they guess right on the overhead fuzzy, it sets itself up all over again.

2)Use [w]236A (GROUND VERSION ONLY!) to beat 5A spam (well, for ragna anyways, more testing is required vs the rest of the cast). It will beat it clean for a CH. Here's a combo I was messing with after the CH, works anywhere on the screen:

CH [w]236A, 5C, land 5D, [H]5B, 2C, 2147B~6D, j.5D, land, [H]5B, 2C, 9D, [w]j.B, 3C, j.A, land 5D, [H], 5B, 2C, j.Bx2 j.C. approx 3.5k or so iirc.

3)Do 4x wolf drill combos (can't remember the name). Each one builds a crap ton of meter, so you end up doing 100% meter combos with only 50% meter :bgrin:

[StarryShade]

EDIT: Other really good thing about this, you only need to tweak a few things and it will work in CS2 which is that much less work when it comes to learning CS2 combos.

Yeah I learned that pickup from watching Hima's videos, it's a really nice pickup. And for the 6C I was talking about midscreen. I usually end most combos that doesn't start with 2C or 6B with j.BBC ender regardless.

But I still think that's a really good pickup. I mean if you use Naght Jager in the corner by accident or w/e you can get 3.8k which is good for a random hitconfirm imo. I actually only use air super when I'm SURE it will kill...otherwise I use Storm Wolf.

[OrionXElite]

Yeah I learned that pickup from watching Hima's videos, it's a really nice pickup. And for the 6C I was talking about midscreen. I usually end most combos that doesn't start with 2C or 6B with j.BBC ender regardless.

But I still think that's a really good pickup. I mean if you use Naght Jager in the corner by accident or w/e you can get 3.8k which is good for a random hitconfirm imo. I actually only use air super when I'm SURE it will kill...otherwise I use Storm Wolf.

OH midscreen huh? Makes a little more sense now. Midscreen Non-Fatal, I've only tried to link a [W]j.A and go from there. Fatal Midscreen you can do a pretty tricky pickup by going 6CFC>6D>D>Land>[H]6B>2C>5C>JC>j.B>j.214B>6D>[W]j.236A>j.236B>C>j.B>j.B>Land>5B>IAD>j.B>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>JC>j.B>dj.B>j.C

Its a difficult combo to start cause of linking the Fatal into 6B and getting both hits. If you think you'll mis the 2nd hit, you can just go 6B(1)>5C and go from there.

[StarryShade]

Is there any tips for landing the IAD j.B? I don't have any troubles with IAD's EXCEPT for with Wolf...is it a different timing?

[OrionXElite]

Is there any tips for landing the IAD j.B? I don't have any troubles with IAD's EXCEPT for with Wolf...is it a different timing?

Well I dunno, I don't use any shortcuts like going 96 or 74 for IADs so that may be a good part of it. Cause I can do IADs normally with like Ragna but when I tried that in Wolf Form, I always just got a jump. So my tip would be to do all 3 inputs. 9~6~6 and see if that helps.

[StarryShade]

Alright I'll try that...man does it ever make me mad when my friends uses 236A as an AA with Valk and it actually works...wtf?

[OrionXElite]

Alright I'll try that...man does it ever make me mad when my friends uses 236A as an AA with Valk and it actually works...wtf?

Its a ghetto AA at best :3 Although if you get a CH with it as an AA, you get a really good combo for it. Just do the exact same combo you would off of a CH 2C AA and you're good. Actually now that I think about it, its probably really good against Tager while you're Magnetized and hes trying to get you with a j.D...Hmmmm...I'll have to look into later when I'm at my friend's house.

[StarryShade]

I wish landing this was easier xxwolfmixup 5B hjc j.AAA j.236B j.236A j.5C j.B j.B 5D 5B 2C j.BBC ender.

I freaking hate the unmorph timing. It's so damn tight T_T

[OrionXElite]

I wish landing this was easier xxwolfmixup 5B hjc j.AAA j.236B j.236A j.5C j.B j.B 5D 5B 2C j.BBC ender.

I freaking hate the unmorph timing. It's so damn tight T_T

When you land for the relaunch(after the j.B>j.B), you can go [W]5B>IAD>j.B>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>j.BBC This works with ALL Wolf Starters with the exception of Wolf 5A. The way to accommodate for that is by just getting rid of one of the j.B's at the end so just end it [H]5B>2C>JC>j.B>j.C Personally, this a LOT easier as height dependency is waaaaaaaay lower. You just need to be able to hit the [W]5B after the air combo and given its a light combo, IAD timing is a bit lenient.

[StarryShade]

When you land for the relaunch(after the j.B>j.B), you can go [W]5B>IAD>j.B>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>j.BBC This works with ALL Wolf Starters with the exception of Wolf 5A. The way to accommodate for that is by just getting rid of one of the j.B's at the end so just end it [H]5B>2C>JC>j.B>j.C Personally, this a LOT easier as height dependency is waaaaaaaay lower. You just need to be able to hit the [W]5B after the air combo and given its a light combo, IAD timing is a bit lenient.

It's really easy with the fatal ironically(I mean starting with 6B 3C 2C 5C hjc [w]j.AAA. And I wish I could do the IAD easier rofl

[OrionXElite]

It's really easy with the fatal ironically(I mean starting with 6B 3C 2C 5C hjc [w]j.AAA. And I wish I could do the IAD easier rofl

Well if you really hate the j.B>j.B>Land>D Bullshit, you CAN do 2 other enders that are very easy and there isn't much of a loss overall from the normal.

etc>etc>[W]j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>D>j.BBC

etc>etc>[W]j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.AAA>JC>D>[H]j.C

These are really easy enders and you lose almost nothing compared to the original. Also in the corner, you can go etc>etc>[W]j.B>j.B>Land>5B>JC>j.B>3C>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B>2C>JC>j.BBC This works on some characters midscreen but it gets weird so should you learn the IAD stuff, you should always use that midscreen or corner since it optimizes Heat gain for barely any extra Wolf meter spent.

[StarryShade]

I'm probably gonna use the one with the j.AAA. I like using that combo xD

[Doromac]

Is there like any trick to hitting the landing 5D, or is it just timing? I do everything else right, whether it's the [w]IAD j.B>j.A and [w]j.B>3C>j.A. I do the other ender fine as well (Land>5B>JC>D>j.BBC and Land>5B>JC>j.AAA>JC>D>[H]j.C ) but landing the landing 5D>5B>Sturm is something I just can't do. I can land 5D>5B occasionally on using the [w]IAD j.B>j.A and [w]j.B>3C>j.A, but just going j.B>j.B, I can't even land the 5B. And I probably can't land strum because I got weird reaction time.

Maybe I just suck?

[OrionXElite]

Is there like any trick to hitting the landing 5D, or is it just timing? I do everything else right, whether it's the [w]IAD j.B>j.A and [w]j.B>3C>j.A. I do the other ender fine as well (Land>5B>JC>D>j.BBC and Land>5B>JC>j.AAA>JC>D>[H]j.C ) but landing the landing 5D>5B>Sturm is something I just can't do. I can land 5D>5B occasionally on using the [w]IAD j.B>j.A and [w]j.B>3C>j.A, but just going j.B>j.B, I can't even land the 5B. And I probably can't land strum because I got weird reaction time.

Maybe I just suck?

Are you making sure you're landing on the ground before you hit D? Thats the biggest problem I had when I was learning it. I was always hitting the D button before I landed so I would never change back. Another problem could be that you're landing, but then you the D button too soon and Valk is still in his landing animation. If thats the issue, I'd say just go into training mode, put the dummy in the corner and just do [W]5B>JC>j.B>3C>j.A>Land>D>[H]5B and toy with the timing. Just start by delaying the D until you transform back into human form. Then once you have the general timing, try hitting a little sooner each time till you hit the 5B.

[Dorian]

Quick question, I started messing around with Valk and Orion I saw your sample combo video. I know in the vid you had a 2c CH into j236236c, I was wondering if the counter was necessary because I know without a CH j.236236c still connects.

[OrionXElite]

Quick question, I started messing around with Valk and Orion I saw your sample combo video. I know in the vid you had a 2c CH into j236236c, I was wondering if the counter was necessary because I know without a CH j.236236c still connects.

No it wasn't necessary. I just did it to make it easier to see what was going on. You can actually go CH2C>JC>Land>2C>JC>TK Air Super and it hits :3

[Dorian]

No it wasn't necessary. I just did it to make it easier to see what was going on. You can actually go CH2C>JC>Land>2C>JC>TK Air Super and it hits :3

Ahahaaa, I see, thanks

[ATG Warlord]

what's the startup on valk's jump?

EDIT: never mind .. shoulda looked at the frame data thread first

[Tong]

Question

Do a REALLY need to connect all j.As in wolf form?

I feel it prorates way too much my combos

[StarryShade]

Depends on what combo it is. If it's like, 2C 5C hjc j.D j.AAA j.236B j.236A xx blah blah.

Then yes, otherwise shit don't work properly afaik, besides it makes it easier to combo. But for xx hitconfirm 236C 9D you can get away with one j.A or use the j.B delay j.A 5B pickup if you want.