[CS1] Valkenhayn vs Tager

[Urichinan]

Discuss the Valkenhayn vs. Tager matchup here.

[B.P.M.]

Since nobody's posting, I'll post some useful tidbits.

DON'T GET MAGNETIZED

This is a given for every single tager matchup. Valkenhayn may still have wolf form xC, but that won't really help for long. Tager can also...

Atomic collider (whiff) 360/720/1080

You NEVER see this coming. You're just fine and dandy in the air, Tager sucks you back down to earth, and then does one of the above three options. Also, if tager hits the atomic collider, you fall into a combo.

Gadget Finger (Whiff) 360/720/1080

This only works if you roll away/towards tager. It seems simple, but this can suck your health away. If you keep rolling, you're going to get 360'd again and again.

But what can you do?

5C

This is a great option against tager. Combos into 236C on CH, and combos also into 632146D. Also, it's a stupidly long-range poke.

Block mixups

If tager isn't THAT 360 happy, you can do some really nice blockstrings.

Blocked 236C > 9D ...

.) j.a xn j.b 5b (sets up for combos)

.) j.a xn j.b 236D (2k grab, he'll be blocking)

.) j.b j.b 236B j.236A (Creates distance, which is nice against tager)

I'll post more as I research more.

[OrionXElite]

Uhh...As a Tager player in addition to playing Valk, I can say that tech traps are just that, traps. if you know them well, you won't fall for them and it makes the match a thousand times easier. Just pay attention to how aggressive the Tager is with traps and you'll be fine.

As for fighting him, on defense, you have to be careful and watch for tick grabs. These will kill Valk way too fast. Also watch for Tager's mixup. 6B and 6C are not only dangerous to get hit by, but dangerous to block. Block both and you're at half primers. You also have to be careful approaching as Wolf from the air, one 2C FC means you lose half health.

You NEED to know where the gaps in your ground blockstrings are cause if you don't but the opponent does, you're gonna get IB 360'd all day.

[BatousaiJ]

Don't try to cross a 720 happy Tager with jB, when you land, they can churn up a bowl of butter without IB all day.

If you suspect them to try and IB 360/720, gatling in to 6C so you're in the air and also, you can wolf cancel during 720 super flash and get away clean.

Valk's got nice range so take advantage of his 5C(counter hit -> 236C for combo starter) and bait his back dashes and hit him out of them with ease with 236A.

Many tagers have this idea that they can throw you out of your wolf cancel, prove them wrong by canceling to 7D for free counter hit.

Valk's backdash will get you out for free for many of Tager's options after gadget finger as well but obviously, avoid getting magnetized and stay at mid range where Valk excels in human form.

[OrionXElite]

Don't try to cross a 720 happy Tager with jB, when you land, they can churn up a bowl of butter without IB all day.

If you suspect them to try and IB 360/720, gatling in to 6C so you're in the air and also, you can wolf cancel during 720 super flash and get away clean.

Valk's got nice range so take advantage of his 5C(counter hit -> 236C for combo starter) and bait his back dashes and hit him out of them with ease with 236A.

Many tagers have this idea that they can throw you out of your wolf cancel, prove them wrong by canceling to 7D for free counter hit.

Valk's backdash will get you out for free for many of Tager's options after gadget finger as well but obviously, avoid getting magnetized and stay at mid range where Valk excels in human form.

I got big money that Valk can be IB 720'd out of the startup of his 6C as he isn't airborne right away. This match should be played in Wolf form a lot as Tager can very easily IB human form's normals which would mean easy 720s if he finds the right hole.

[eirei]

Not to mention you can run away in wolf form even while magnetized. Just hold [4] all day erryday once you get a life lead. You can morph back in time to block spark bolt too.

[Guardian]

Played this match a lot today, here's what I took from it:

At Mid range, Tager is deadlocked. All he can safely do is 5A and attempt to walk you down. If he whiffs any C or D moves, you get a free transform punish and/or mixup. He can't jump in on you at all, with anything ([w]5B and 2C beat all his aerial options). Trolling him in wolf is very effective, as 7C and 4C make Tager's 2C a little easier to bait.

His 5A will beat or trade with EVERYTHING you have though. Counter-poking with j.C or 5C seems to be the only counter to it, and even then that's risky. If you get magnetized, just wolf dash in various directions. It will REALLY mess up your magnetized jump trajectory, as [w]4/7C seem to ignore the magnetized state within the first few frames of the back dash.

If he gets you actually blocking, you'll have to guess before you can get out, so make sure your defense is good and/or you know the match up pretty well. One wrong grab and it's pretty much over. If you get him blocking, try to get him to guess on a wolf mix up. He has a REALLY hard time handling all the AA baits and cross-ups.

[OrionXElite]

Valk has some Bullshit mixup with his j.B>j.A gatlings. You can abuse the living hell out of this against him as if he gets hit and you combo, he takes a chunk of health but if he Blocks, he has to keep blocking and if you connect a blocked [H]j.A high enough, you can cancel into Wolf Form(non dashing, he just flips like normal) and land Command Grab. Or jump cancel any of his [H] air normals and repeat the same crap. Plus if you wanna be a real dickhead, you can do something like Blocked [H]j.A as you're falling and throw out a j.C and it'll never come out cause you hit the ground too fast which means you can tick throw them after it. Works on everyone but it gets a bit tricky. Definitely makes his mixup and pressure even more powerful

[Jais]

VS tager:

- After gadget, backdash beats everything except 5C, spark bolt, and 1080.

- Astral > 720. For real. 720 won't ever win. Frame 1 invincibility, meaning you can wake up when he's holding the 720 and just Astral him for free. Yes, Valk's astral is a legitimate DP.

Pulled from General Thread, can't find source

[Jais]

During pressure, Valk can CH 6A [ that move is TOO POWERFUL 8D I love it] Tager's 6B,6C, and 5D

during a Collider trap, 214B will stall momentum and cause you to not be sucked in , then you can wolf cancel away.

[w]4C whiffs spark bolt !!!!

[NickExtreme1]

Gonna lock and archive this thread, remaking this thread for [CS2] update.