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Urichinan

[CS1] Valkenhayn vs Hakumen

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Hi! I noticed some thing playing my friend's haku-men

If he comes in for an attack using the air, I have beat out everyone of his moves using 632146D

IF you normal jump, be careful of his 4C - Super annoying

Spacing is good in this match.

I notice that while at the right distance - you can use C and connect.

Using your moves is key in this match, I notice that using j.C while he counters, at the right distance, you will not get countered. It also worked when I did 643216D as well. But this is only when the distance was right, so it will be hard to do.

My friend said that Valk is a lot easier to predict so be careful. He will try to counter so mix it up or grab!!!

So far this what I experienced so far in this match. Overall, it will be a waiting game in my opinion

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Hi! I noticed some thing playing my friend's haku-men

If he comes in for an attack using the air, I have beat out everyone of his moves using 632146D

IF you normal jump, be careful of his 4C - Super annoying

Spacing is good in this match.

I notice that while at the right distance - you can use C and connect.

Using your moves is key in this match, I notice that using j.C while he counters, at the right distance, you will not get countered. It also worked when I did 643216D as well. But this is only when the distance was right, so it will be hard to do.

My friend said that Valk is a lot easier to predict so be careful. He will try to counter so mix it up or grab!!!

So far this what I experienced so far in this match. Overall, it will be a waiting game in my opinion

1) if hes attacking you from the air you can easily 2C him out for a CH combo

2) 632146D is a good DD but dont waste it outside of a combo, it leads to very good damage.

the only D you really need to worry about is hakus jD because its inescapable (meaning unlike the other 3 it traps you in hit stun) i mean they are all bad but the other 3 can be escaped.

3) hakus jC. either you are attempting to jump and beat it (not advised) or block,IB, it and punish it.

4) your mixups beats hakus. wolf canceling normals mid animation or off block ; say for instance you got him blocking low then you 2B 5C 6C but wolf cancel 6Cs animation into [w]jB 5B >etc

5) haku only seems able to zone you out, or midly pressure you due to valks lack of a DP, IBing hakus very obvious pressure can lead to your advantage.

6) haku cant throw out specials for free. you can. and you can wolf cancel them into a combo. im not saying spam specials, im saying if the haku always blocks low (6C) 236C 9D >etc

7) haku can out zone you, a little anyway. you have the longer normals and poking tools. haku has the HP.

8) throwing out his Strum wolf DD like its daifunka, not a good idea i can easily 5D it on start up,or 2D or 6D right befre it hit. Or if im feelin good ill IB it then or just normal block the 1st blow then 2D the second blow, or i could just let the DD almost finish then IB the final hits (free meter) and 6D the final kick and if i gained enough, ill go into mugen and trash you.

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1) if hes attacking you from the air you can easily 2C him out for a CH combo

2) 632146D is a good DD but dont waste it outside of a combo, it leads to very good damage.

the only D you really need to worry about is hakus jD because its inescapable (meaning unlike the other 3 it traps you in hit stun) i mean they are all bad but the other 3 can be escaped.

6) haku cant throw out specials for free. you can. and you can wolf cancel them into a combo. im not saying spam specials, im saying if the haku always blocks low (6C) 236C 9D >etc

7) haku can out zone you, a little anyway. you have the longer normals and poking tools. haku has the HP.

1) That is not always the case when he is in the air. There are times when I am still hit as well so it really becomes a trade off.

2) The reason why I actually use his super is because there are time when they will try to attack from the air. I meant to say use this super is he attempts to use any air moves because this beats all of them.

There were a few times when I went through his j.D as well, its all about the timing and distance. Its very hard to do but I know its possible now

6) I have not attempt this yet so Ill try when I play my friend again

7) Thats not necessarily true, his 4C still beats all of your range attacks, even IBing this still leaves you at a disadvantage. I tried to do something after IBing 4C and I am still in block stun.

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1) That is not always the case when he is in the air. There are times when I am still hit as well so it really becomes a trade off.

2) The reason why I actually use his super is because there are time when they will try to attack from the air. I meant to say use this super is he attempts to use any air moves because this beats all of them.

There were a few times when I went through his j.D as well, its all about the timing and distance. Its very hard to do but I know its possible now

6) I have not attempt this yet so Ill try when I play my friend again

7) Thats not necessarily true, his 4C still beats all of your range attacks, even IBing this still leaves you at a disadvantage. I tried to do something after IBing 4C and I am still in block stun.

1) i can barely understand this but: from what you are saying, you are still in block stun when he attacks from the air? otherwise you are using his 2C ( his head invunerable) anti air too late possibly or too early depending? i have never run into valks AA trading off against hakus attacks unless its hotaru, 2C hotaru late for a CH if he hotarus in the air. if he TK hotarus then just block.

2) also if he uses JD vs your strum wolf DD he can chain JD again to counter the second hit, then you lose 50 heat and you are in a bad position, hense why you shouldnt do it. vs your air DD JD will beat it. save it for combos.

6) do try it. i only labled 1 or 2 examples. watch this valk : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSWrjRSI3Y you'll see alot of what valk can do.

7) yes 4C is good, at max range, if you are mid range, or closer your 5B can beat his 4C and CH hit him because the entire attack puts haku in CH state. at max range you can either use 236A (shoulder charge) because its +2 on block. the only way this can get countered is if your friend is expecting it. even then if you feel he is use 236C it has slower start up and can CH him out of his D stance. or you could block and rethink your approach. i used valk vs good hakus, 4C isnt bad. jC is.

also if you must know. im testing everything i say or think before i type it. i have also done these things im posting. -minus that video. that player is god teir.

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lol when i wrote the numbers, it was for each to explain what I meant when you numbered yours like mine.

For example, you wrote "1) if hes attacking you from the air you can easily 2C him out for a CH combo"

I wrote 1) to say that is doesn't always work. I played against haku as well, and I was frustrated that it does not work all the time.

Im going to try out what you wrote at (7). Since I have trouble trying to attack while in block stun still from his 4C. If IBing did not help me unless im being to slow.

"2) also if he uses JD vs your strum wolf DD he can chain JD again to counter the second hit, then you lose 50 heat and you are in a bad position, hense why you shouldnt do it. vs your air DD JD will beat it. save it for combos."

I said there were a few times when I did 632146D when he came at me from the air using D. For some odd reason, it went through. Like he press D and my attack went through and attacked him while he was recovering or something. Its hard to explain because I do not have a video on it. But I guess try it out in the training and see if you can do it.

Plus that valk player is good as heck !

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I tried to do Strum wolf when haku j.d.

It seems that the second D has to be timed right your haku will be countered.

I also tested strum wolf on hakus j.a, j.b and j.c. He will beat them all

It will get countered by j.214C if haku at the right height, but if haku is near the ground j214C or dash 214C, it will be countered by Strum wolf.

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Don't use Strum Wolf by itself unless you're intending to punish a midrange whiff, hell, if you absolutely need to get out of a pressure string, don't use it like a DP and instead counter assault and do a combo off of it.

This is much safer to do and if I had a dime for every valk that DD on wake up just to get baited or screw up and go into wolf form(hilarious), I'd be able to buy Valk DLC for every PSN user on the planet.

If you want to combo into it, a source of easy 4k(exact) damage is a simple jC, 5B, 5C, Strum.

I end up spending most of my meter on RC and 236236D finisher for my air combos but when I land that jC and have the meter for it, 4k isn't too bad. I could do more with jC, 5B, 5C, 236A, RC, 3C-> follow up but sometimes I just feel lazy, aha.

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i have said this so many times...

Ya, I was agreeing with the sentiment outside of very specific situations(LoL Lambchops).

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I've found that you can go under hakumen's 4C and JC with 236C and 236A fairly easy :keke:

Are you saying that if hakumen 4C that you can go under that using 236C?

I was trying out what Strum Wolf can counter if hakumen was going to attack.

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This has got to be the most annoying match up for Valk outside of a Mirror Match and Litchi.

5C beats Haku's 4C. Hasn't failed me yet. Our Anti Airs are very VERY tricky to use on Haku, because of Ookami's long reach we either end up clashing and making it a + for Haku or missing and getting cut in the face and lead into a combo, so he can punish our Anti Airs which are 6A and 2C. With proper timing and positioning you can overcome this but sometimes its not enough, and jumping in the air isnt a good option as Haku's j.C is a pain in the ass to deal with. Counters are a pain in the ass but Wolf Form can help if he's expecting a w.236A

Simply run close and w.A into 236D(Wolf Command grab) and dash in to close any gaps he could use to his advantage.

ALWAYS Grab a counter happy Haku-Men. Don't be afraid to Air Dash in with Barrier Block to block that annoying 2C Anti Air of his and grab or do a 5B combo into Wold Command grab. It really closes that damage gap he can do with his annoying C Spam. If in the Corner grab and do the basic Challenge mode set up. If Haku men is ready to counter, 6C should put him in his place, Wolf Cancel and maximize the damage. in the air our j.C is easily countered and baited, so instead go for B into 214B and Wolf cancel into wj.AAA and 236D. If you see that he's gonna go for j.C block and go for 236C or 236A for pressure be sur eto throw in a grab for the counter happy Haku.

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Nah not at all, You'd think they give him something similar to Carl and Tager, but his back dash is no good. Even at the right range it doesnt have invincibility from what I tested.

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I've noticed a friend (We're both pretty noob. I've been playing Arcsys games since GGXX, he got started with BBCT, and this is the first game either of us considered taking beyond casual.) relying on the following:

1) Throw, with a 214B(Gurren? I think that's the name of it) followup. Absolutely insane damage for what it is, and baiting it is extremely risky. :vbang:

2) Tsubaki. At all times. Problem with this is that I can't see any safe way to punish it.

3) Random 5D. It's an obvious scare tactic to try to prevent the rushdown, but I always get caught by it.

If I can get him in the corner, I can dominate the round. Otherwise, I'm getting zoned and absolutely crushed.

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Some little tidbits.

1.) 236A Beats Haku's 4C, use that at start of match/round to punish crap.

2.) Approach. Hakumen gets paid to sit at the other side of the screen, and you have no tools for forcing him.

3.) NEVER USE STRUM WOLF BY ITSELF! You're just going to get anywhere from 3 to 6k damage slapped in your face. However, you can punish midrange whiffs quite easily with it.

4.) Learn where he presses the D button in your blockstring. Try and react, then punish. When he realizes you're doing something differently, he/she's going to modify where they press D.

That's it for now. Also, don't even try to counter an air-to-air j.C. It's just not happening.

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This matchup isn't bad at all for Valk. Hardest part is dealing with the Counters but thats just a matter of not getting predictable. If he jumps in with j.2C, DO NOT use 2C to counter it. You will trade and you won't get anything for it as Haku's j.2C has crazy hit stun. He'll be at advantage. Instead, use a 6A. The guard point will eat the slash and you knee him to get him out of your face. Hakumen has a hard time with mobile characters so use Wolf form to your advantage. Wolf Air Dash into Human jump ins are an option or ghetto Magneto triangle Dashes to get around him. You just need to keep moving. If hes counter happy, fucking command grab him and make him eat shit for it. This is 55/45 Haku's favor at WORST

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Some little tidbits.

1.) 236A Beats Haku's 4C, use that at start of match/round to punish crap.

2.) Approach. Hakumen gets paid to sit at the other side of the screen, and you have no tools for forcing him.

3.) NEVER USE STRUM WOLF BY ITSELF! You're just going to get anywhere from 3 to 6k damage slapped in your face. However, you can punish midrange whiffs quite easily with it.

4.) Learn where he presses the D button in your blockstring. Try and react, then punish. When he realizes you're doing something differently, he/she's going to modify where they press D.

That's it for now. Also, don't even try to counter an air-to-air j.C. It's just not happening.

This all makes perfect sense, and I have to wonder why I didn't consider any of that. Thank you. And thank you as well, Orion. I've been repeating the mantra "An idle Hakumen is a dangerous Hakumen" for a year now, and never really thought about it when against him, only when playing as him.

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I was playing against Dacidbro tonight who has a fundamentally strong Hakumen and I learned a few good things. Aside from all the other stuff I said, you pretty much need to just keep him guessing. If you throw out blockstrings. Go ahead and reset to neutral and throw a 3C. If it hits, follow up. If he blocks, you're back at neutral. This honestly is not a scary matchup as its just a matter of who can get right read. Don't go with something like jump in j.C>Land>5B as he can counter the 5B easily. And yes, an idle Hakumenis indeed very dangerous. So don't let him idle. I will note though that you need to watch for Hop>Tsubaki as thats a killer and on Valk's low health, a good combo is half your life. Thing is Valk's damage output is more consistent with the right confirms so he has a lot more to worry about. Still stand by that its a even but in Haku's favor 55/45 at absolute worst.

Oh and one last thing, run Kara Cancels against Haku as that can always make him second guess throwing out a counter which will make approaches a little more safe if you get him thinking like that.

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[w] 4C whiffs all of Hakumen's jump in and IAD attacks, then it leads to a guaranteed followup when he is in landing recovery with [w]j.B, but only if spaced and timed properly.

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