New Guilty Gear?

[Ky-Sama]

marvel harder than guilty gear? perhaps in terms of execution (but even that's debatable).

marvel mixups are hard to block because they're A) really damn fast and B) fucking random. it may be easier to block in guilty, but it's also harder to hit people.

lol...

[qwerty]

what's there to laugh at? guilty gives you tons of defensive options, and there's no vortex to speak of.

[Silhouette]

I really hope they won't get rid of FRCs. They add too much variety to movement, mixups, and combos to give up imo. Just make them all like 3-5 frames if they want to make execution easier and leave them.

I don't particularly care if FRCs stay or get tossed. But I've never liked them. They exist primarily to incentivize masturbation amongst the combofiends and piss off a sizable chunk of beginners to the point they don't even want to play. Keep in mind, what I'm about to say comes to you as a Testament player. It might be different for your character, but I doubt it:

I'd be a huge fan of FRCs if they added depth. I can do a sexebeast and FRC into rape. Or, I can do a sexebeast and not FRC... and then do what (Badlands doesn't count, pretend this is #R or Slash)? My options are infinitely better on FRC than not, so there's no point in not spending that meter. Now if FRCs worked like: "here's the FRC point, I can hit the FRC and do A which will result in X or I can not hit the FRC and do B which will result in Y", then they would be so infinitely amazing your girlfriend would get pregnant just by watching you play this game.

Simplifying the game's mechanics will result only in more people to play against. Yes, it will rob you of your ability to say "My fighting game requires far more execution skill than yours does, therefore, my penis is much larger." Say the mechanics of the game do get nerfed a bit, then yes, there will be some riff-raff (not a lot; this is still Guilty Gear), but you'll still be able to mow them down as goddammit, the mechanics were simplified, not your character. It's the simplification of the characters that you have to worry about. If that happens, we'll just be playing BlazBlue with hotter women and Bridget.

BlazBlue characters are just gimmick'd out RTSDs and zoners as a general rule. Guilty Gear has a lot, a fucking lot of nuance that isn't tied to FRCs. Your game and characters won't get raped because of more accessible execution standards. Just the smug elitist sense of self-satisfaction that comes with playing possibly the most technically difficult fighting game ever created that every single Guilty Gear player has derived enjoyment from whenever a variation on the sentence "Being a Street Fighter tourneyfag is like being really great at having down syndrome" has left their mouths.

What makes BlazBlue suck is not the game itself. You can trace the suckitude back to the fact 85% of the roster is so terminally boring that Russian Roulette looks like it would be more entertaining. A game consisting of the Guilty Gear characters that you all know and love with BlazBlue's mechanics (basically Guilty Gear - FRCs) and you've got a good game. But if they simplify the characters, or just change the more complicated ones into linear rushers and zoners, then yeah, it's pretty much over.

[IronTager]

@Silhouette

I kinda agree. It's odd cause I think part of the reason why False Romans are so gay to do is because they want to make it so you can't do them too soon but not too late. Though, it seems like a lot of the time, you want to FRC. It's more muscle memory rather than skill. I guess the only depth I can think about it is that you can recover faster with projectiles and using minimum tension while doing so.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if GG being simplified would equate Blazblue. Though, I get what you mean. I'd hate if it turned like Blazblue to be honest. I personally like the game, but it's usually just, hit confirm, land the strongest combo, KIND OF set up a pressure, and hit confirm again, rinse repeat. Though, I kinda dislike the sizeable amount of "beginners" to be honest. They don't want to learn, they can get out in my opinion.

[qwerty]

if you guys want a taste of what easy frc's would be like, go play garou, lol.

[tolore]

Silhouette you clearly don't understand FRC's and why they are awesome, it's bneen explained TONS in THIS thread why they are not needless execution barriers, and in many people opinions one of the best mechanics in guilty gear.

[zdravkelja]

At the end, I agree with Hecatom. The game doesn't really have to be dumbed down.

I tried the game for the first time 7 years ago, it was Reload. I have played the game for a two years without knowing RCs/FRCs and IKs even exist. And I enjoyed it. It was the first fighting game I really liked. I didn't have a real main, I was playing with everyone. Than I learned about rc/frcs on some forum. One month later, I memorized frc timings for almost every character, it was very fun to learn them. Than, I found the dustloop and really got into the game.

Frcs are something that really put the game on a whole new level and opened a limitless potential.

Like Hecatom said, I think advertising is more important than removing advanced mechanics.

[IronTager]

if you guys want a taste of what easy frc's would be like, go play garou, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I never said that I want easy False Romans. Cause I mean, it kinda defeats the purpose of why they're there. I'm just saying that if anything is simplified, that'd be one of the least of my worries, you know?

@zdravkelja

You've got a good head on your shoulders sir. I do the same. I don't know why, but every time I pick a character in Guilty, I go like "Wow, he's/she's badass, let me try this character." Then it's like "Wow, this character is amazing too, let me try this one." then I try another and well and well, you know where I'm going with this. Guilty Gear is such a kickass game and everyone is sweet. That should be more than enough to attract people.

[Silhouette]

Silhouette you clearly don't understand FRC's and why they are awesome, it's bneen explained TONS in THIS thread why they are not needless execution barriers, and in many people opinions one of the best mechanics in guilty gear.

No. No it hasn't been explained tons in this thread. It's been said that "LOL FRCs ARE AWESOME" and the occasional comment thrown in about how no FRCs would change the game dramatically with no further explanation. They're not needless execution barriers, but that's how it's perceived by a lot of new players. Totally badass combos, set-ups, whatever created by FRCing the applicable move is your reward for spending one or two weeks of your life pounding the points of FRC into your muscle memory. My point in the latter part of my post was that you should be able to opt out of an FRC and go for a different scenario rather than the current build of being much better off FRCing than you are by not doing it in almost every situation. But my biggest point was as follows:

I don't particularly care if FRCs stay or get tossed.

It wouldn't be as bad as a lot of people think. Or maybe the removal of FRCs from Guilty Gear is directly correlated to the warning of apocalypse in 2012. I know exactly as much as you do about the future of Guilty Gear. Which is dick.

Certainly I'd favor it to be forever and always the Guilty Gear I fell in love with years ago. But the theoretical removal of FRCs is near the bottom of my list of possible changes to climb a clocktower over, of all the things they could potentially fuck up.

[axel]

Anyone here ever plays GGX 1.5 before? Many characters are very limited in gameplay due to FRCs not in the game. Imagine Venom without Stinger Aim FRC and Testament without EXE Beast FRC, what can Baiken do in the game when she doesn't even have air Dust? FRC totally revolutionized the GG series and it will be a shame if it is removed.

[Nakkiel]

What can Baiken do? You mean top tier GGX Baiken right?

[tolore]

They're not needless execution barriers,

if you really thought that you probably wouldn't have said thing like

They exist primarily to incentivize masturbation amongst the combofiends and piss off a sizable chunk of beginners to the point they don't even want to play.

I'd be a huge fan of FRCs if they added depth.

I can do a sexebeast and FRC into rape. Or, I can do a sexebeast and not FRC... and then do what (Badlands doesn't count, pretend this is #R or Slash)? My options are infinitely better on FRC than not, so there's no point in not spending that meter.

That last one is horrifyingly false, there are VERY few( I can actually only think of one off the top of my head) FRC that you should always do no matter what. Even the one you listed, exe beast, if you use it and trade with an opponent you basically get a free FRC for the cost of a small amount of damage, if you're fishing for the trade you should not frc.

so here's a detailed look at how FRC's make the game what it is and how many characters become significantly worse/less interesting without them

No cancellable fire balls which messed up venom, ky, zappa(ghosts), baiken, testament, Sol, I-no, eddie. No more fire ball FRC to bait jumps, no more fire ball FRC for safet, no more fireball FRC for pressure/reestablish pressure, no more gunflame FRC run up before fireball hits wild throw.

No more FRC points on moves that have no hit at all, no more chip teleport FRC's or HOS active charge FRC's for combos/pressure/safety/mixup, baikens kick counter(the short invulnerable run) becomes basically worthless.

No more cancelling moves before the hit comes out for mix up, baikens yozansen FRC, Jams crouching dust, pots 6HS(and 2HS too maybe?), axels jump over their shoulder move(that ones FRC actually is before AND after the first active frame).

No more cancelling moves on whiff, No more baiting punishes with all the FRC's ever, no more safety on whiff for many moves.

No more all the other awesome stuff you can do because FRC's are only 25% instead of 50% meter, this is the least important category, and the only one you seem to recognize at all.

FRC's make the game what it is, anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't understand how the game works. You are free to the opinion of FRC's are too hard, you are free to the opinion that they should be removed, but to say that they aren't that important to the game or that they don't add depth is COMPLETELY wrong and shows a lack of understanding of how the game works.

I'm actually of the opinion that one of the easiest ways to make BB a better game is too add FRC's, that by itself would increase the depth of BB a lot.

edit: note that every single example and every single character I listed for how frc's are awesome is off the top of my head, I did no research and looked nothing up. There are probably other awesome uses/examples that I couldn't even think of.

[Silhouette]

"I must be wearing orthopedic shoes because I stand corrected."

Obviously wasn't thinking.

[IronTager]

Hm. He made a list of very good points.

Here are things I'd be missing if I couldn't FRC with Dizzness (Dizzy)

Ice Spike

- Couldn't continue a combo if I need the extra damage.

- Couldn't make sure it's safe to do.

- Couldn't continue to pressure.

- Couldn't send out another fish as fast and potentially extend my combo so I can summon another fish on the knockdown of the continuing combo.

Wheel

- I don't use this too often, but there are times where it's saved me to continue pressures and such.

- Throw out fish.

- Trick my opponent for mixup.

2HS

- False Roman for safety since it's kinda punishable.

- False Roman into 2Dust for knockdown. People fall for it pretty often actually.

- Can follow up with a mixup or float off into safety away from opponent.

There's even 1 huge trick I can think of where False Romans have helped to make someone's mixups infinitely better. Skillia Rage. (Millia)

This is an old trick that's well known I'm sure. Hair Car, false roman into her 6K overhead during a hair disc oki. Very, very useful from what I've seen. Hard to block, costs little super and can get you a good amount of damage.

Anyhow, I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say False Romans are what the game what it is, but I can agree that it can be a pretty big aspect of the game after taking some though. You've made very good points Tolore.

[Narcowski]

Hair Car, false roman into her 6K overhead during a hair disc oki.

You can just 214P (FRC before hit) into j.K for an overhead - no need to use something as slow as her 6K

(Or let the 214P connect for a low, then FRC into a high/low)

[Seku]

My point in the latter part of my post was that you should be able to opt out of an FRC and go for a different scenario rather than the current build of being much better off FRCing than you are by not doing it in almost every situation.

Play someone else other than Testament, and then say stuff like that.

[axel]

What can Baiken do? You mean top tier GGX Baiken right?

I assume you know that GGX and GGX1.5 are 2 completely different games. IIRC you can't FDC ground normals and are able to tech OTG hits.

[M.Song]

no frcs would make roboky's 5hs one of the worst moves in the game with its current properties

[Supa]

I have both GGX 1.5 Atomiswave and GGX NAOMI. I wouldn't call them "two completely different games," but there are some definite changes.

If you need anything verified out of curiosity, just let me know.

Oh ya - Robo Ky isn't in either....

[M.Song]

I have both GGX 1.5 Atomiswave and GGX NAOMI. I wouldn't call them "two completely different games," but there are some definite changes.

If you need anything verified out of curiosity, just let me know.

Oh ya - Robo Ky isn't in either....

i dunno i think the fact that they took out fdc which seemed to be a huge part of ggx naomi combo system makes 1.5 pretty different

[Kayin]

Actually, one of the reasons BlazBlue attracted that many people is because of that "animu feeling". Guilty Gear lacks the weaboo animu feeling, so...

But it makes up for it in METAL :V

GG needs to take it's metal gimmick further, real talk.

[4r5]

Clashes should induce a headbanging contest where you have to mash buttons to win. Like in SamSho.

[notsogos]

yeah lets just play gg with this

[Kayin]

Clashes should induce a headbanging contest where you have to mash buttons to win. Like in SamSho.

This.

Fucking THIS.

[tolore]

yeah lets just play gg with this

I actually have played GG with the guitar.