Why does nobody play Guilty Gear 2: Overture?

[PandaKingEX]

I've played this game for a considerable amount of time, and enjoyed many great matches with friends, along with long months of practice and beatdowns that I went through in order to be able to hold my own against the Japanese community. My time with this game has been fantastic, and I find it to be one of the most unique games to ever exist.

I just have to ask, why is it that nobody ever really bothered to get into this game? I understand that reviews were not really positive, and that a lot of people might be turned off by it not being a 2d fighter. Despite that, I still thought that this game would have developed some type of small faithful following, although I guess it has if you count me and a few others, but still...There is just far too much quality in this game for it to be overlooked to the point that you could forget that it even exists.

Anyways, I'm interested in hearing what you guys have to say, and even more interested in knowing if there is any way possible to create a scene for this game, as I can promise you that it is worth playing.

[unsanctifier]

Please do not feed the troll.

- The management

[Zeromus_X]

Pretty sure he's being sincere; Panda is a big fan of Overture.

[Blackgenma]

I'm pretty sure you already know the answers panda. the primary reason being that GG2:overture isn't a fighting game. this means a majority of the fan base does not give a shit about the game by default. the other reason being people do not know what the hell it is. The majority most likely think its a hack and slash game like Dynasty Warriors instead of a competitive Action/RTS. the last reason being that those who know what it is don't know how to play the game because it is difficult. the fact that reviewers gave it poor reviews did not help, and for the record, every review on game rankings is horribly unrepresentative of the game. I went through them all.

sad, but true. I'm sure the view of the majority of dust loop members think the game is shallow fan service trash due to all the misinformation going on about it. too bad.

[Narcowski]

I'd probably try it if it wasn't 360 exclusive, but there's no way it can live up to AC, especially since it's not even the right genre.

[PandaKingEX]

Please do not feed the troll.

- The management

I'm not trolling. Genuinely interested in why this game never picked up, and if there is ever any hope for it. Nobody likes seeing a game they love dearly go nowhere.

[PandaKingEX]

I'd probably try it if it wasn't 360 exclusive, but there's no way it can live up to AC, especially since it's not even the right genre.

Yeah, I think it should have been multiplat. The 360 only move is probably one of the bigger reasons why this never went anywhere outside of Japan. As for living up to AC, well, that is a tough one. I think if you're not locked to a specific genre, and just enjoy the qualities of AC, like it's incredible depth, balance, variety, and competitiveness, you could still enjoy overture, as all those aspects are still present.

edit: oops, sorry for double post, meant to edit my last.

[Abominable K]

Most GG fans are specifically fighting game fans. GG2 demands too much from people who probably aren't that interested in the RTS genre in the first place.

Also, lock-on sucksssss

[qwerty]

you know what's better than overture? herzog zwei.

[shtkn]

i always argued taht they should have made it for the ds so you could use hte touch screen to control your units and manage inventory more easily

[xlolxlolx]

Yeah, I think it should have been multiplat. The 360 only move is probably one of the bigger reasons why this never went anywhere outside of Japan. As for living up to AC, well, that is a tough one. I think if you're not locked to a specific genre, and just enjoy the qualities of AC, like it's incredible depth, balance, variety, and competitiveness, you could still enjoy overture, as all those aspects are still present.

edit: oops, sorry for double post, meant to edit my last.

Ehh I think you mean 360 exclusive is why it never got popular in Japan and it never got popular in America because there's only so many GG fans that own a 360, it's also not really under the fighting game genre anymore and fits into the category of action game combined with RTS which is a genre known for it's failure on consoles.

[Blackgenma]

you know what's better than overture? herzog zwei.

GG2 uses that game as a template of sorts.

i always argued taht they should have made it for the ds so you could use hte touch screen to control your units and manage inventory more easily

I don't think that would ever work, considering the action that occurs on the map ( # of units, their AI and player vs player combat); maybe if the game was a straight up RTS, but that would make it a completely different game altogether. besides, inventory and map control are actually quite easy when you become accustomed to it.

[PandaKingEX]

Ehh I think you mean 360 exclusive is why it never got popular in Japan and it never got popular in America because there's only so many GG fans that own a 360, it's also not really under the fighting game genre anymore and fits into the category of action game combined with RTS which is a genre known for it's failure on consoles.

It's actually pretty popular in Japan, maybe not in massive numbers, but it's the only reason I've been able to play the game for so long, by playing with the Japanese players. A lot of them have been playing this game practically every single day since it's release, and it's been out for 2+ years over there. This game has in Japan what I crave for it to have in America.

[Sol.Badguy]

Lol with me posting in here we now have the only people to touch GG2 In a long time all in the same thread.

Anyway, I think the reason is 2 things.

1. Die-hard People play GG for the fighting genre, when you introduce a new genre they put it off and call it 'not guilty gear' So new genre is definitely #1

2. People who play GG realize that you'll enjoy a GG game more the better you are at it. So that means that random people who pick this game up will get totally butt-raped at first and quit playing they game because they don't want to take the time to learn how to play well.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

The game had never hitted for three major reasons

1)bad critic. or I have to say RETARD critic, that united to a very bad work of localisation and promoting never had the game to be known to people

2)GG2 is basically a very deep game. well, too deep an strategic for many players...and the west gamers that like strategic do not like the japanes-anime like style, they're done with SC...but mostly they are not aware of GG2, and so we're close to point 1

3)negative karma

I can also summarize the first two points in one: people is dumb

is dumb because almost anyone had payed the game enough to understand it, dumb because they never get online, dumb because of theyr fanboiysm, and so on.

i'll FINALLY get my xbox next weeks, but I'm here in the magic Italy, where the people that actually play GG (the beat'em up) are like...hmm...3? 4? So you can imagine that a real community will never born here...apart Aedesyr lol

[Shinkada]

Well, I'm pretty much over Guilty Gear so the fanboyism is gone, and I own a 360, so I might actually be able to give a unique perspective into this question. I hated Overture when it came out, so, here's a few reasons.

1: Daisuke's handling of it. The way he said 'it's the game GG was meant to be in the first place' and the way he struck X onwards off the canon, was basically a complete "fuck you" to the actual current GG fanbase.

2: The characters. The only decent one (imo of course) was Sol, who really isn't that decent. Other choices? Generic sentient-weapon loli, two furries, two crossdressers, and I think they added Raven later right? GG's always had very eccentric characters but there wasn't enough for many people to find the kind of eccentricity they liked... Also in a cast of 7-8, 2 furries and 2 crossdressers is 2 too many in both cases.

3: The two genres (3rd person fighting and RTS) really don't mix. The RTS players generally want to have a big war, and the fighter players generally want to have a one on one fight. There are only a handful of people who are happy to play one of the fighter type characters and take on hordes of buffed enemies while the opponent plays keep-away, or happy to play the RTS characters and be mauled if the single player unit manages to get close to their own player unit. You COULD just play for the chance to fight people 'playing the same genre,' so to speak, but there were too few characters for there to be any diversity this way.

4: The fact that most GG players thought (and were right) that the creation of a 'proper sequel' in this style would mean the end of the fighting games. Boycotting it added a chance that Daisuke would drop the spinoff project and go back to fighters.

I've said this before and I'll say it again; I'm sure Overture is a fantastic game if you're in the right niche, the same way GG was a fantastic game if you're in the right niche. The only problem is that it wasn't the same niche as the old games, thus erasing the entire 'guaranteed' fanbase, and the stigma around it made it too unattractive to a new fanbase to find its footing.

The game would've had a much, much, much higher chance of succeeding, if it had absolutely nothing to do with Guilty Gear. Daisuke's insults and insistance that he have his baby and that his Mary Sue lived on had a huge role in its inability to succeed.

[Blackgenma]

Well, I'm pretty much over Guilty Gear so the fanboyism is gone, and I own a 360, so I might actually be able to give a unique perspective into this question. I hated Overture when it came out, so, here's a few reasons.

1: Daisuke's handling of it. The way he said 'it's the game GG was meant to be in the first place' and the way he struck X onwards off the canon, was basically a complete "fuck you" to the actual current GG fanbase.

4: The fact that most GG players thought (and were right) that the creation of a 'proper sequel' in this style would mean the end of the fighting games. Boycotting it added a chance that Daisuke would drop the spinoff project and go back to fighters.

The game would've had a much, much, much higher chance of succeeding, if it had absolutely nothing to do with Guilty Gear. Daisuke's insults and insistance that he have his baby and that his Mary Sue lived on had a huge role in its inability to succeed.

I can ignore the other parts of the post that I removed as they have more to do with opinion more than anything, but the comments left up there are rather daft. the bolded parts in particular. wanting to move the series in a different direction is some sort a blasphemous insult to the fighters? if story bothers you, x is still part of the game's plot, I don't know where you got the Idea that it wasn't. even if he did remove it from the plot , for whatever reason, that's a pretty...shallow reason to accuse him of saying "fuck you GG fans!" I don't see the logic around this perception.

besides, I haven't' heard anyone else bitch about daisuke's personal comments on his project being one of the major detractors of its success. so whatever.

4 is irrelevant because it flopped and we have no GG fighter in sight. and they didn't boycott it because "OMG, WE'RE NEVER GETTING A FIGHTER AGAIN! FUCK!" it was more along the lines of "what is this shit, not wasting my money on it". 4 is exactly what I mentioned in my first post on the thread, from the game being difficult, to not being a fighter, and yadda yadda.

last comment that's in bold. I guess I already covered that, his comments certainly aren't a reason the game bombed, especially when it wasn't anything insulting to begin with. its his fucking creative license, let him be innovative with it, he even stated he would continue both series if possible, so he never intended to give it the boot. dunno where you get this hostility from.

I would comment on the gameplay and characters but I don't really care to at the moment, and its opinionated any who as I stated earlier.

[Shinkada]

And here we are again. Thought into post, bullshit in return.

His creative license, me being opinionated, boo hoo fucking hoo. Stop defending Overture and Daisuke like a baby, when I wasn't trying to attack them. Panda asked why people don't play it. I gave him part of the answer from the perspective of someone who was a big Guilty Gear fan at the time - ie, part of the main group who would make or break the game - and I gave him my reasons for breaking it.

Argue about Daisuke's ttly osum business and artistic decisions with someone who cares, because I certainly don't. He was largely responsible for its bombing and that's that.

[Blade]

The reason people don't like Overture: Because it's not on PS3 and people would rather play Fat Princess, Call of Duty, BBCS, and Brutal Legend.

[Honnou]

i always argued that they should have made it for the ds so you could use hte touch screen to control your units and manage inventory more easily

^ This

The reason they failed: wrong game system (esp. for japan, 360 games lol), no relation to past gg games, making it hard for old fans to like and people new to the series to get into, awkward controls :\ (doesn't matter if you're good or not, the fact that you have to drop down the organ in the middle of playing is not a good system)

The game isn't that intense except for when the screen fills up with units; the ds would be fine at handling it especially with the new model coming out.

[farranpoison]

But then we wouldn't have sexy 3D models of Sol.

Plus there's also the thing about 95% of the usual GG cast disappearing without any shout out to them in GG2. Not everyone's favorite characters in GG are Sol and Ky.

[Blackgenma]

And here we are again. Thought into post, bullshit in return.

His creative license, me being opinionated, boo hoo fucking hoo. Stop defending Overture and Daisuke like a baby, when I wasn't trying to attack them. Panda asked why people don't play it. I gave him part of the answer from the perspective of someone who was a big Guilty Gear fan at the time - ie, part of the main group who would make or break the game - and I gave him my reasons for breaking it.

Argue about Daisuke's ttly osum business and artistic decisions with someone who cares, because I certainly don't. He was largely responsible for its bombing and that's that.

I'm not going to drag this out, but I would like to address this. I don't like being regarded as an idiot without the chance to clarify myself. to get it out of the way; yes, me jumping on your post was uncalled for, so sorry about that.

I read your post throughly, multiple times. I called you out for accusing the director for shitting on fighting game fans by simple act of not releasing a fighting game; which is what 2 out of your 4 points are composed of, in part anyway

he said and did nothing to insult the previous games like you say in your initial post (unless you consider him not creating a fighting game "insulting", in that case, more power to you.) if you want the exact lines I'm refering to, here

"The way he said 'it's the game GG was meant to be in the first place' and the way he struck X onwards off the canon, was basically a complete "fuck you" to the actual current GG fanbase."

and this line here, specifically the begining of it.

"Daisuke's insults and insistance that he have his baby and that his Mary Sue lived on had a huge role in its inability to succeed."

hating on the guy primarily because he didn't make a fighting game strikes me as very narrow minded. I'm free to point this out here, so yeah, I stand by that. I was also a big GG fan (though my skills were even more scrubby then they are now) and was intrigued because the game was different from stuff on the market, and that attracts me. take that as you will.

as far as saying your stance on the gameplay is opinionated, its because your description of its..."problems" are extremely vague. you essentially just say action-RTS is a strange combination, and end of story. no real elaboration whatsoever. its akin to me saying "well, platforming games and action games don't mix well. some people just want to jump on stuff,while others just want to beat stuff up, so its awkward."

clearly, there's not much to say about such a description. but whatever, you didn't like overture and your just saying why, that's cool. no need for in-depth discussion on something you don't care about. hopefully you won't regard this reply as "bullshit" this time around.

[Kaze_Memaryu]

It's really sad that Overture didn't receive too positive rankings, not because it's too difficult, but because the learning curve is crazy. I own this game and still play it often (no online, though), and I have to admit that it could have been better if they had more characters from the main series included, but that aside, Overture shares one great similarity with the main series: the awesome and highly unpredictable story, which confused and amazed me at the same time.

One other point for the poor reviews is because almost nothing about Overture is anything like mainstream stuff: no real fighter, no real RTS and especially not too easygoing on newbies in any of the genres.

Still, this game deserves more attention than it has: or have you ever watched a replay match between 2 pro gamers? Way more exciting than some BB or GG replays.

[unsanctifier]

Not a whole lot of characters, especially the ones we actually love.

Call it a sequel to a fighting game, but make it a different genre.

After a bunch of GG fighting games, telling us that this is how it is supposed to be is just a stupid decision.

The genre IS weird, I would probably have been interested if it WASN'T GG based, but still advertised to be part of Daisuke's work. I just can't play a GG game that ISN'T a fighter...Especially if Slayer isn't it.

[Seku]

It's really sad that Overture didn't receive too positive rankings, not because it's too difficult, but because the learning curve is crazy. I own this game and still play it often (no online, though), and I have to admit that it could have been better if they had more characters from the main series included, but that aside, Overture shares one great similarity with the main series: the awesome and highly unpredictable story, which confused and amazed me at the same time.

One other point for the poor reviews is because almost nothing about Overture is anything like mainstream stuff: no real fighter, no real RTS and especially not too easygoing on newbies in any of the genres.

Still, this game deserves more attention than it has: or have you ever watched a replay match between 2 pro gamers? Way more exciting than some BB or GG replays.

Mind if I have some links for those pro-fights?

I have the game and I'm a bit curious now.