BBCS LokeTest 2: Oct. 8th, 2010 Discussion (NO COMPLAINING)

[Nobus3r1]

full screen in a quarter second? yea id be down for that!

but really, if they are upping the mag on 4d and dropping it on 5d maybe they are just trying to mix up the way tager plays....

Changing from sucking to blowing wouldn't be much of a mix up (as Tager's changes thus far seem pretty trivial as they don't actually address his deficiencies). However I will say that if Tager's drive moves stop flinging mashing opponents into my face I'd be happy.

[A.X.I.S.]

4D needs more mag, its a great poke for stopping rush down now if they can fix his bigger problems...

[No Limitz]

Any vids of Loctest2 Tager? I have a feeling this magnetism change wont make it to the final product, but I would love to see how much it pulls in.

you missed the part where gravity doesn't have invincibility any more

...

I'll give you you the benefit of doubt that English is your 5th language, hopefully.

[choysauce]

...

I'll give you you the benefit of doubt that English is your 5th language, hopefully.

wow chill out, they were discussing earlier how in a vid that lambda got hit out of her gravity DP. dunno if this was denied, but i sure didn't see anything about a denial of this statement

[Kazuki Slice]

wow chill out, they were discussing earlier how in a vid that lambda got hit out of her gravity DP. dunno if this was denied, but i sure didn't see anything about a denial of this statement

NoLimitz posted changes to lambda that were missing from the opening post. what Germanturkey posted, held to relevance to Nolimitz post. (since he most likely failed to read or misread his post.)

[g0th1k4]

tager's b sledge doesnt need to be fast enough for it to be a true block string..just fast enough so people don't have enough time to react to it and bait and CH it so easily =D

[A.X.I.S.]

sledge needs a cancel.

period.

[ZONG_one]

sledge needs a cancel.

period.

[4]6HS > P, maybe?

[A.X.I.S.]

I'm glad you got the reference, it could be a great frame trap if arc doesn't fuck it up.

[ZONG_one]

I'm glad you got the reference, it could be a great frame trap if arc doesn't fuck it up.

I agree he needs something.

[Justice7541]

Letting Tager Mist Cancel 5D would be hella broken.

[Sponson]

The ability to bait people with bsledge would be priceless. Show the start-up animation and then just cancel it to bait moves. But then bsledge is still kind of useless since no one really uses it anyway and pros would just ignore it.

Though I can only imagine a faster bsledge coming out as fast as asledge.

[Wanko]

Correct me if I'm wrong but according to this (3Cはいつも通り地上受け身不能だよ！他キャラとは違うんです) I believe Carl's 3C is always emergency untechable. Combined with 3D that forces standing... Carlkizeme is now even scarier...!?

[ZONG_one]

Carl 3C was emergency techable on grounded or air opponent.

As of now, it's not.

3D forces standing.

So Carl gets oki somewhat similar to Ragna 22C or Tager Gadget Finger.

Except they aren't immediately out of hitstun, so it's not as good.

Still an improvement if it ends up staying.

[Mizore]

I don't know if I should be happy or pissed at Noel's changes. Hell I might just drop her and go back to Jin, again.

[Stafy]

I kinda wish Aksys would experiment with heat usage more. I mean, I'm basically wishing it would be like SSF4/Jin, but I think if characters gain a lot of heat already, i'd rather just use a super version of a move to o even more combos esp. if it is a long-combo based games.

But that's just wishful thinking. Can't wait for loketest3.

[dragontamer]

I don't know if I should be happy or pissed at Noel's changes. Hell I might just drop her and go back to Jin, again.

Personally, I'm quite happy with the changes. Combo + Oki off of random 5B (5B -> 2B -> 6A -> 6C -> j.D -> etc. etc.), 6A working on crouchers again (not for combos, but this helps her pressure), etc. etc. This will make Noel a more solid character. Sure, 3C and 5D are going to lose some damage, but those are unsafe gimmicks anyway. Plus, 6B overhead looks faster, and d.6B and other chain revolver attacks look faster as well. Noel might actually have solid pressure if they keep all of her changes.

There's still a lot of unknowns... Chain revolver looks faster, but it may still have a ton of holes and is vulnerable to dragon-punches. 6B may look faster, but thats really hard to test. And of course, there are the nurfs which will inevitably lower Noel's maximum damage. Nonetheless, there really isn't much to complain about IMO. Noel gained some solid tools in this Loketest.

[Eshi]

Personally, I'm quite happy with the changes. Combo + Oki off of random 5B (5B -> 2B -> 6A -> 6C -> j.D -> etc. etc.), 6A working on crouchers again (not for combos, but this helps her pressure), etc. etc. This will make Noel a more solid character. Sure, 3C and 5D are going to lose some damage, but those are unsafe gimmicks anyway. Plus, 6B overhead looks faster, and d.6B and other chain revolver attacks look faster as well. Noel might actually have solid pressure if they keep all of her changes.

There's still a lot of unknowns... Chain revolver looks faster, but it may still have a ton of holes and is vulnerable to dragon-punches. 6B may look faster, but thats really hard to test. And of course, there are the nurfs which will inevitably lower Noel's maximum damage. Nonetheless, there really isn't much to complain about IMO. Noel gained some solid tools in this Loketest.

even if d.6B is faster, isn't it ultimately a worse option since spring raid can't be followed up midscreen without RC?

[dragontamer]

even if d.6B is faster, isn't it ultimately a worse option since spring raid can't be followed up midscreen without RC?

Because of all of those times when we land d.6B in a match, amirite? Aside from j.d canceled d.6B, there isn't a safe way to throw out d.6B. Hell, even including j.D cancel d.6B... if the opponent blocks that, Noel is screwed. I'll gladly trade the high damage d.6B combo for the new 5B -> 2B -> 6A -> etc. combo... even if 5B -> 2B doesn't have as much damage. 5B is actually a safe, solid poke to throw out. Furthermore, it actually creates a mixup opportunity for Noel: 5B -> 6B vs 5B -> 2B... You can't combo from 2C (so no one is scared of the low), and 6B was way too slow (and they're not scared of 2C anyway).

They're buffing Noel's low risk options at a slight cost of the high-risk options. I like that.

[Eshi]

Because of all of those times when we land d.6B in a match, amirite? Aside from j.d canceled d.6B, there isn't a safe way to throw out d.6B. Hell, even including j.D cancel d.6B... if the opponent blocks that, Noel is screwed. I'll gladly trade the high damage d.6B combo for the new 5B -> 2B -> 6A -> etc. combo... even if 5B -> 2B doesn't have as much damage. 5B is actually a safe, solid poke to throw out. Furthermore, it actually creates a mixup opportunity for Noel: 5B -> 6B vs 5B -> 2B... You can't combo from 2C (so no one is scared of the low), and 6B was way too slow (and they're not scared of 2C anyway).

They're buffing Noel's low risk options at a slight cost of the high-risk options. I like that.

point taken. it's hard to imagine a world where noel isn't a gimmick factory.

[FunkyP]

ArcSys doesnt know what they wanna do with Noel, she's suppose to be a rush down pixie yet nerf her close range normals and buff her mid range pokes and projectiles. Her drives are suppose to be her primary way of dealing damage, yet they nerf the comboability. Her slow ass mixups makes her a high risk character, yet they reduce the reward for using gimmicks.

I'm honestly getting sick of the inconsistent playstyle with her. They need to decide what they want Noel to be and design her to play that way.

[dragontamer]

ArcSys doesnt know what they wanna do with Noel, she's suppose to be a rush down pixie yet nerf her close range normals and buff her mid range pokes and projectiles. Her drives are suppose to be her primary way of dealing damage, yet they nerf the comboability. Her slow ass mixups makes her a high risk character, yet they reduce the reward for using gimmicks.

I'm honestly getting sick of the inconsistent playstyle with her. They need to decide what they want Noel to be and design her to play that way.

Say what?

CT Optic Barrel was way better than CS Optic Barrel. CT Optic Barrel was bigger and +19 frames on block. On normal-hit, 236A and 236B went into 6C loop and counter-hit 236C went into 6C loop for ~3k+ damage. CT Optic Barrel was large enough to punish forward / backward rolls and go for 3k full-screen roll punish + Oki. In CS, 236B/C is -5 frames and no combos are possible. 236C CounterHit + Rapid isn't enough to make a combo. 236A is 0 frames on block. Sure, its faster, but its a worthless tool. Its best use is to use it in Chain Revolver as a pseudo-safe escape and hope that your opponent doesn't poke you out of the wtf still slow 30 frames of startup.

In CT, 5B had disjointed hitbox and the same range as Ragna's 5B. Using 5B alone, I could outpoke Tager. Noel's midrange options were severely nurfed in CS. Both 5B and 5C have smaller hitboxes than vulnerable regions.

Noel's midrange and projectile options were far superior in BB:CT.

********

If you're talking about BBCS2... I dunno what you're talking about either. Because they haven't nurfed 5A in BBCS2 as far as I know.

[FunkyP]

5c is hands down one of her better normals and has better range than 5b in CS, also not bad startup considering its range. 5a had amazing priority and advantage and 6C was godly fast and would counterhit for days with great priority. 6a use to be a great anti-air and excellent for hit confirming combos, we dont even need to discuss how bad it is now. All of her other normals were pretty decent in CT, in CS all her close range normals went to shit. Optic barrel was absolutely useless on CT, no one would sit there for half a century and block OB, anyone could easily IAD over it on reaction and punish. Hell if they hear or see you throw it out they could straight run up to you and punish. In CS 5b and 5c are her go to normals now and shes having to play footsies and counterpoking to get anywhere, optic barrel is also actually used as a zoning tool as well.

Noel was most definitely a rush down character in CT, now its devolved into such a weakened state that she has lost pretty much any real rushdown potential. She is not a rushdown character in CS IMO.

[Mizzet]

They're buffing Noel's low risk options at a slight cost of the high-risk options. I like that.

I like that she actually kinda has a little bit of abare now, 6a hitting all crouchers is also good partly because it makes it easy to capitalize on 2b hits. 2b isn't the easiest thing to hitconfirm and if you guessed wrong and threw out 6a against crouch block you were in for a lot of pain. It's a nice flowchart easymode gattling now, 2b 6a on hit/block are both fine and offer plenty of time to confirm and follow up accordingly. I'm not sure how vulnerable Noel is in the hole between 2b and 6a, if that's even a 'safe' gattling option.

Kind of miffed that d.5c lost it's JC ability though, that's a lot of damage gone, which was probably their intent. A lot of my outlook on the changes rides on what (if any) new combos are possible with chain revolver, if we can't get 4k meterless from raw 3c it's not worth using imo for how stupid unsafe it is.

Shutting down options like JC from d.5c just makes Noel very boring, there's all the d.5c SJC j.d combos on grounded opponents (that lead to resets!) gone for example. Apart from some invincibility here and there chain revolver is just another set of normals - more so than other characters' drives.

[Urichinan]

I cannot believe that there was NO Litchi information at ALL!!

Ç.Ç That makes me so sad... I would have loved to hear about some buffs... Like ITSUU COMBOS BACK AND j.C NOT BEING TECHABLE. /Rant