[CS2] Mu-12 CS2 Changes Discussion

[FlyingVe]

Thread for Discussing the changes to Mu-12 in CSII:

PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL CHANGES MAY NOT BE ACCURATE DUE TO MISTRANSLATION, MISINFORMATION, OR TROLLING BY SOME JBBS PEOPLE

ALL CHANGES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE FROM THESE LOKETESTs TO RETAIL

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FINAL GAME

Mu-12.

+ 2B > 2C has been added.

+ 2C > 5C has been added.

+ C Normals are faster with less recovery

+ Ame no Habaya deals 5 hits, can be followed-up, faster startup, less recovery.

+ 3C Jump-Cancelable.

+ Steins guarenteed sooner

+ Stein lasers fire faster

+ 2B larger hitbox

+ SoD corner bounds from a considerable distance

+ CA Blows back harder

+ 6B moves Mu forwards more, larger horizontal hitbox

+ 5B, 6A, 6B, 5C, 2C, and SoD all air unblockable

- 3C techable on normal hit

- lvl 1,2 SoD break one primer, lvl3 breaks 2

- Omohikane minimum damage decreased to 1100.

- j.2C 10f landing recovery, special cancelable on landing.

- CH j2C causes stagger instead of floor bounce

System:

*Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5.

*Corner Bound. Red effect appears when they hit the corner, they fall down like they got hit with a knockdown. Most interesting property is the untechable time buff, most of the moves that corner bounce are untechable in air.

Combos:

+ ~>SoD(bound)>Dash5B>2C>jC>j2C>2B>6A>2C>jC>j2C>2B>(5B)>Omohikane

+ 5b>3c>sod(lv1)>dash6a>delay6b>dash6a>j.2c>dash2b>6a >j.b>j.c>j.2c >(j.d) 4000 damage. If + you add 2b 632146c, damage goes to about 5300.

+ 3C>SoD

+ 6B>SoD(bound)>Dash5B>Corner Loop

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Compilation of Changes by Loketest:

Loketest 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hzoy9pxN7A#t=4m05s

It looks like all her C series attacks are faster. It's unconfirmed and could be an illusion.

Loketest 2:

+ 2B 2C connects now

- j3D removed. What the hell is j3D?

Loketest 3:

+ 2C > 6C combos on standing.

- 3C techable.

+ No proration on guard crushes.

Loketest 4:

+recovery of stein placement decreased. 6C>5D>Habakiri(214D) combos

+3C downs both air and ground opponents and can't be teched. untech time increased

+Ame no Habaya(236A) hits 5 times, untech time increased

+2B reach increased

+63214C: More untechable time

-6B moves her less forward

-J2C can be teched

+ 236A: "214D > 6C > 5D > 214D > 6C > 5D..." Loop

+ New Combo: 236A > Dash > 2B > 3C > 2B > 5C > 6C

Loketest 5

+ 3C now jump cancelable

+Close range Tsurugi Combos are being found? (63214C/SoD)

+seems like D moves got some guaranteed frames

+2C, 5C are indeed faster

-Laser from stien comes out slower

-Charged steins (x[D]) DO NOT break guard primers.

- 3C is techable again

- 6A has shorter untechable time

+ j.2C's ukemi has not been removed, sorry (probably the untechable state j.2C puts you in; you Mu players should know what he's talking about)

+ j.2C's ukemi has not been removed, sorry (probably the untechable state j.2C puts you in; you Mu players should know what he's talking about)

+SoD corner bounds.

*Corner Bound. Red effect appears when they hit the corner, they fall down like they got hit with a knockdown. Most interesting property is the untechable time buff, most of the moves that corner bounce are untechable in air.

[Big Red Tie]

maybe j.236D? i dunno

did she get a j.3D last loketest?

[Zeromus_X]

2B -> 2C sounds really helpful for forward roll/not emergency tech punishing.

[Aginor]

That'd be more like just 2b. If anything we might get a damage increase from 2b 2c instead of doing 2b 6a. Keep in mind that 2c has more start up than 6a so it's better to do it early on in the combo and then to continue a corner loop for more reps use 2b 6a instead. That's how I see it. I don't really see it adding much but that because you can already gatling 2c from 2b.

I have no idea what j.3b is. Unless they mean j.2d? I have no clue. Oh btw, if they kept the changes from the first loctest (I think they did), then Mu's 5c should be faster except have less range. Kind of like what ASW did with jin's 5c going from bbct to bbcs.

[FlyingVe]

Wan't all that about the 5C being faster just speculation from watching vids? Or did that get confirmed somewhere? A faster 5C and 6C would help Mu's game alot.

Edit: updated OP with Loketest 1 info.

[Silfer]

I believe its speculation from the videos. 5C Seemed to be coming out faster and be a tad shorter.

Also, for what I understand: is 2C ...faster now...?

[Aginor]

Silfer: Yes 2c must be faster now. Since the 2b 2c gatling was always there and now it combos, the only change that was made to 2c would have probably been the start up of it. So far I'm fairly satisfied with the loctests.

There's still 2 more loctests. I think she'll pretty much be the same though.

[Silfer]

Thats great news then.

It would be awesome if they changed 6B in order to make the 6A->6B loop work on every character.

[Synthesis]

I just want 6B to be low and throw invincible, give uncharged lasers more hit/blockstun and increase the speed on her 214D. I'd say lower her FC damage from 6C. That shit is kind of dumb, but I'd also like to see her overall steinless damage increased.

I feel steins should be more of a setup for getting the initial hit in. Example: Oki and using the lasers as a forced block into mixup. I think if they want her to do damage with steins, the damage should be significant, such as if she has 2 perfectly spaced/placed steins, her combo damage should be upwards of 4.5k meterless. If not, I say they should change the hitstun on some of her normals (such as 2C) in order to allow stein placement (with strict timing) in the middle of combo for somewhere around 3.3k. Just a thought.

[FlyingVe]

Well, since we're going there, my wishlist:

-Faster C series attacks

-Straight 5B hitbox (so sprite and box match)

-Taller 2C hitbox, or smaller sprite (so sprite and box match)

-Taller hitbox on 6B (to make 6B juggles more consistent and less character specific)

-Longer hitbox on 2B (to allow the 3C>2B link at a slightly larger range)

-Slightly faster 214D

-More frame advantage from lasers (would improve 236D and general oki)

-6C bounce slightly higher (say hello to 3C>2B>5C>6C>214D(wiff) combos) [note: this might be really OP]

-Faster 236A recovery (not much though)

[geist]

Well, since we're going there, my wishlist:

-Faster C series attacks

-Straight 5B hitbox (so sprite and box match)

-Taller 2C hitbox, or smaller sprite (so sprite and box match)

-Taller hitbox on 6B (to make 6B juggles more consistent and less character specific)

-Longer hitbox on 2B (to allow the 3C>2B link at a slightly larger range)

-Slightly faster 214D

-More frame advantage from lasers (would improve 236D and general oki)

-6C bounce slightly higher (say hello to 3C>2B>5C>6C>214D(wiff) combos) [note: this might be really OP]

-Faster 236A recovery (not much though)

214D would probably open up 2B> 6A> 6C> 5D> 214D combos..

higher 6C would possibly give 2B> 6A> 6C> 63214C combos @_@

[FlyingVe]

Oh I forgot one from my list.

-6B, links to 2A on crouching opponents.

Personally I think my list is pretty modest and reasonable.

[Aginor]

I just want 6B to be low and throw invincible, give uncharged lasers more hit/blockstun and increase the speed on her 214D. I'd say lower her FC damage from 6C. That shit is kind of dumb, but I'd also like to see her overall steinless damage increased.

I feel steins should be more of a setup for getting the initial hit in. Example: Oki and using the lasers as a forced block into mixup. I think if they want her to do damage with steins, the damage should be significant, such as if she has 2 perfectly spaced/placed steins, her combo damage should be upwards of 4.5k meterless. If not, I say they should change the hitstun on some of her normals (such as 2C) in order to allow stein placement (with strict timing) in the middle of combo for somewhere around 3.3k. Just a thought.

I guess someone likes to have a character with no mix up. *cough*

tbh, laser are fine the way they are. 214d speed increase would be nice but isn't necessary. Even though 6c FC does 7.2k it makes for for not having much damage without steins. She doesn't need more damage when she's steinless because she already has setups. And really good ones for that matter.

In terms of the 2nd paragraph, that's what ASW is trying to get rid of in the first place. Then we'd have another Litchi if she had oki block 3-4 mix ups before they can get out and do 4.5k meterless. And you can already place steins mid combo with xx 3c 2b 5c 6c xD j.2c xD and then do whatever after that.

FlyingVe: The only thing I think Mu really needs from your list is the 6b link 2a on normal hit. Other than that, everything else would be nice but I just don't think ASW would implement those changes.

[FlyingVe]

I actually like where Mu's damage is at the moment. Its low, but leads to good oki pressure/mixup (a vortex if you will), but, with the right setup the damage can go nuclear. Plus I think the fact that she can't chain every hit into her BnB makes her more interesting to play (this is one of the beggest problems with BBCS IMO).

6Bxx2A would be huge obviously. The rest of my changes are really meant to give her a modest boost, but mostly to make some of her stuff less finicky and more consistent. Yeah... ASW will do whatever they want, each loketest always surprises me. Besides, they're the professionals, I trust their judgement... mostly...

[Synthesis]

Mu as it is has very little mixup opportunities. She has next to no mixup without a knockdown, and landing that initial knockdown can be difficult at times. Also, I agree with 6B being 2A linkable on crouchers. That sounds so delicious I swear it's got to be fattening.

[FlyingVe]

She has next to no mixup without a knockdown, and landing that initial knockdown can be difficult at times.

Don't you think that's her archetype though? She's very good at what she does, but setting that up is hard. Most of my matches are pretty down hill until I get a knockdown, and then it landslides the other way. Its fun .

[FlyingVe]

Loketest 3:

Mu

- 3C techable.

My thoughts: fuck, losing the 2B pickup is a big deal for mu as all of her setups rely on comboing into the 6C. On the bright side ASW is making all kinds of move air unblockable which should help setups on the whole since jumping won't be as powerful an answer to mixup as it is now.

[SolarMisae]

Well, fuck. I just picked her up too...with that change, everything I learned so far won't mean much if 3C stays techable. o.<;

[Silfer]

I dont get the 3C change at all :S, its not like she has any other real launcher...her entire b&b is dependant on 3C.

Maybe they'll really buff 214C (like sword iris fast) in order to pick up characters :S

[Shockna]

Given how little sense a lot of character changes make, and that they're doing this to every 3C IIRC, I'm not sure they considered just how reliant on 3C Mu is before including her in the sweep changes. >_>

[Silfer]

ASW is trying really hard to make me quit the game....tks god its just a loketest, there's still hope they'll stumble into some common sense in the coming weeks...

[DjGriever]

so umm... i didnt Notice anything New x)

[GenoWhirl]

Inb4 6A combos into j.2C on standing/crouching opponents

Make it happen aksysss

[Grey]

i dun think this change will stick, because mu is really really terrible if 3C is techable.

[SolarMisae]

Yeah. Without 3C untechable, it renders a shitton of her current combos impossible...meaning if this sticks it's back to square one. I hope Arcsys isn't stupid enough to keep this change. I'll be very sad if it's gone, I loved 2B pickup combos so much. ;_; It's part of why I picked her up.