[CS1-CSE] Mu-12 Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[cookiehours]

lol pad

No, I know a guy who plays exclusively on pad (He mains Lambda too) and even he said he wouldn't play Mu on pad. Not that it's impossible I personally don't recommend it though. I played Lambda on pad, and had no real problems with it, but can't for the life of me play Mu on pad.

And no matter who you play yeah, start with easier ones an work your way up to the more complex execution heavy stuff.

I can do certain combos with her on pad but those particular combos are tough. I just have to get the motions right. I know Main G. Jago used to play Mu on pad in CS1.

[pochp]

I used to play on pad in cs1, I don't really use it in cs2, but I have tried it out once or twice and the practical combos themselves aren't really hard. Lots of people are saying that there's no real difference between what you can do with pad as opposed to stick, I mean wolfkrone made top 8 at evo with C.Viper on pad, and Latif used to play Eddie on pad (but switched because he wanted to participate in SBO which is an arcade tournament, so no pads). The only real issue is that after playing a long time non-stop on pad, your execution might not be as good as on stick. I know my fingers used to hurt when I played a lot, that's why I made the switch.

For corner combos, just you could just stick with (whatever starter) 5C SoD 6A delay 6B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C (laser hits) j.2C. It's really easy and universal, although do (whatever starter) 5C SoD dash 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C (laser hits) j.2C if your opponent is airborne at the beginning. Corner throw use this though : throw dash DELAAAAY 6A delay 6B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C (laser hits) j.2C, and overhead go 6B SoD dash 6A j.2C dash 2B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C j.2C. For a dummy, use one that you have to delay 6A-6B on, because it still works on everyone if you delay it, and if you don't get used to it, it'll hurt when fighting a makoto/bang/noel/etc. This isn't optimal, but it's really easy, does decent damage and gives you decent oki.

[cookiehours]

I used to play on pad in cs1, I don't really use it in cs2, but I have tried it out once or twice and the practical combos themselves aren't really hard. Lots of people are saying that there's no real difference between what you can do with pad as opposed to stick, I mean wolfkrone made top 8 at evo with C.Viper on pad, and Latif used to play Eddie on pad (but switched because he wanted to participate in SBO which is an arcade tournament, so no pads). The only real issue is that after playing a long time non-stop on pad, your execution might not be as good as on stick. I know my fingers used to hurt when I played a lot, that's why I made the switch.

For corner combos, just you could just stick with (whatever starter) 5C SoD 6A delay 6B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C (laser hits) j.2C. It's really easy and universal, although do (whatever starter) 5C SoD dash 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C (laser hits) j.2C if your opponent is airborne at the beginning. Corner throw use this though : throw dash DELAAAAY 6A delay 6B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C (laser hits) j.2C, and overhead go 6B SoD dash 6A j.2C dash 2B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 6A j.C j.2C. For a dummy, use one that you have to delay 6A-6B on, because it still works on everyone if you delay it, and if you don't get used to it, it'll hurt when fighting a makoto/bang/noel/etc. This isn't optimal, but it's really easy, does decent damage and gives you decent oki.

I'm pretty used to pad by now because I've been playing fighting games with it for a while. Guess I'll work on basics and steins first.

[TD]

l play mu on pad. it's incredibly easy. now l realize that it may not be the same for everyone, but her combos are relatively easy and dont require multiple inputs (besides from like directional button + abcd).

another subjective comment: the 'hard' combos with mu is in fact really easy. if you can do:

-anything into sod/3c oki midscreen

-5c confirms into 6c (from crouching, ch, jumping foes)

and

-...6a j2c j5d 2b relaunch in the corner

then you have a good foundation and everything else should fall into place.

l think the hardest thing to learn with mu are her basics (like hitconfirming everything) and her tools which you could learn without a stick.

[cookiehours]

l play mu on pad. it's incredibly easy. now l realize that it may not be the same for everyone, but her combos are relatively easy and dont require multiple inputs (besides from like directional button + abcd).

another subjective comment: the 'hard' combos with mu is in fact really easy. if you can do:

-anything into sod/3c oki midscreen

-5c confirms into 6c (from crouching, ch, jumping foes)

and

-...6a j2c j5d 2b relaunch in the corner

then you have a good foundation and everything else should fall into place.

l think the hardest thing to learn with mu are her basics (like hitconfirming everything) and her tools which you could learn without a stick.

Yeah, you're right. But the stein placement combos seem to be hard for me. I would get it and then somehow drop it.

But I should leave that until basics are covered. I did some challenges so far.

[cookiehours]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk7h23_74jY&feature

I will not deny there were no derped moments in this video but I think I'm improving. o_o

[Cryingvoid]

cookiehours, wow, nice and solid in my opinion. Also, don't forget instant blocking at least that multiple hit stuff. It at least allows you to do more counter assaults and RC'ed DPs.

[cookiehours]

cookiehours, wow, nice and solid in my opinion. Also, don't forget instant blocking at least that multiple hit stuff. It at least allows you to do more counter assaults and RC'ed DPs.

I know but its so hard to do online. .__.

[Cryingvoid]

No! I'm talking about multiple hit stuff, not about regular IB'ing. While normal or barrier blocking Lambda's Zenmetsu, you are in a constant block stun, so just mash backwards as fast as you can, and most of those hits will be IB'ed, giving you a lot of meter for free. Try that in training mode, it is absolutely nothing special.

[cookiehours]

No! I'm talking about multiple hit stuff, not about regular IB'ing. While normal or barrier blocking Lambda's Zenmetsu, you are in a constant block stun, so just mash backwards as fast as you can, and most of those hits will be IB'ed, giving you a lot of meter for free. Try that in training mode, it is absolutely nothing special.

Oh, okay. Oki-doki.

[Reamatsu]

Shinsyn Mu-12 in action. Definitely know how to body my side characters but I don't really practice with them, I'll invest some more time into them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2fjz5EqMWo&feature=channel_video_title

[Cryingvoid]

Is it your Alt230?

PS: Lambda did everything for Mu to win this match lol )

PPS: About Lambda match: Nice gameplay, Mu basically did everything what was necessary. Don't know if there were any flaws, but maybe she could move just a bit better and more actively. That would probably leveled up her spacing. And more of 6A's would have been welcome. They are fast, JP players use them very freely. Last, I noticed, there are some times when it is wise just to dash with 2a's to keep the pressure on instead of retreating. Confirmed dash 2a's are way safer than close range Habaya's, and allow you to any close range action possible. And more importantly, the opponent won't be expecting this normally (resuming pressure with dash 2a's instead of retreating).

PPPS: you've got a cute nick and avatar

[Aile]

http://youtu.be/uyZ9F2_e-Pg

vs Carl.

I basically have no matchup with carl so uh yeah. And there are instances where I fuck up timing for SOD so it never comes out when I want it to, and vice versa. That and I tend to use J.2c a lot, probably a habit I tend to use with makoto a lot.

And ignore text on the bottom. the guy recording the vids forgot to remove that 8V

[Cryingvoid]

Don't drop BnB, Aile! You can't afford that since you are not Makoto

[Aile]

But I drop combos all day

But on a serious note, I seem to drop it during a match. I rarely do on training mode.

But yeah that's probably just normal. I'm still not accustomed to timing on the move I guess

[cookiehours]

Yay, more improvement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr4myobvbC4

After I won this, instant disband and the person left.

[Cryingvoid]

Start using normal corner oki's with steins. Your gameplay now seems too basic, it doesn't display Mu's true strong sides. Do more setups, tricks and stuff.

[cookiehours]

Start using normal corner oki's with steins. Your gameplay now seems too basic, it doesn't display Mu's true strong sides. Do more setups, tricks and stuff.

I'm learning Mu piece by piece. She's not that easy to learn (setup/mixup wise) and I find her corner combos with steins tough to do with pad. Still, I am getting used to her.

[Cryingvoid]

Sure. I just gave you some honest feedback, before you'll have overused that word "improvement", and gone slacking on practicing more complicated stuff

[C0R]

I'm learning Mu piece by piece. She's not that easy to learn (setup/mixup wise) and I find her corner combos with steins tough to do with pad. Still, I am getting used to her.

You're getting better, I would like to see more as you continue to evolve as a player.

[Aginor]

Start using normal corner oki's with steins. Your gameplay now seems too basic, it doesn't display Mu's true strong sides. Do more setups, tricks and stuff.

Her strong side rewards good basics. I dunno what you're talking about. It's like saying, playing the basic fireball/srk game with ryu in sf4 is bad and you need to do more setups and tricks. There's nothing wrong with playing basic and fundamentally solid.

This statement applies for almost every Mu I've seen out there. I'd like to see more tactics involved instead of rush in, hit the other person, get KD and start mashing oki. Example is Carl has to get in on Mu to really do any damage because Nirvana only lasts for so long. Which means you can just zone Carl out all day and he can't really do anything about it.

[cookiehours]

Sure. I just gave you some honest feedback, before you'll have overused that word "improvement", and gone slacking on practicing more complicated stuff

I didn't slack on the complicated stuff. Been practicing for a good while with her today.

[YukiBlue]

I find it hard to critique Mu gameplay. With all the possible options I find it impossible to pick an optimal one

Quick, concise Info:

Sacrifice Damage for Oki (It's what I do. And since im the No.1 Mu of all times you must do this. Jokes. Consider it. Steins help so much)

[Cryingvoid]

Aginor, If you compare with SF Ryu, then what I tries to say, it would probably be - playing fireball/srk game without solid footsies and spacing, in his case. (?)

Of course, solid basic play is a must and it is very strong in Mu's case. But there are opponents with which the basic play doesn't work. Maybe you don't play them too often, but shouldn't we aim higher? I too can feel rather comfortable playing via basic patterns and little blocking, defeating local online guys, who feedback me afterwards how awesome my Mu is. But I know that it is just the lack of Mu matchup experience for them. What if you face really a strong opponent? Okay, here is a JP stream of Mu playing against Shounen's Litchi: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17478777 And I can tell you, basic moves are not enough for him. They just stop and blockstun him for a while. But to dominate such an opponent you must take every chance, do every setup possible, and play truly advanced strategies. In my opinion, solid basic Mu play is good, but it is just the first step of her mastership. Her advanced usage is tricky setups, sacrificing damage for oki/midscreen frame advantage, setup primer breaking, drive laser mastership (assisting you in blockstrings, combos; leaving an opening on purpose, provoking the opponent to punish and get hit by laser).

cookiehours, I mean, not to slack in the future, feeling too full of yourself )) We all love cookies handmade, don't we?

[bakahyl]

I still prefer a solid basic game play with her over her setups and gimmicks when you are starting to learn MU. You first need her basics mastered (her slower than average but excellent range normals, weak jump-ins etc. ) before you can do all the setups.

Against Carl when nirvana is close to you when being activated , i like to use 2c on her/it. 2c prevents carl from jumping in on you, while more importantly interrupts most of Nirvana's moves while doing nice damage on Nirvana and you can and should jump cancel the 2c on hit and block/barrier block / arial backdash if you see Carl approaching on the ground or when Nirvana is doing a move with armour.