[CS1-CSE] Hazama QnA and Tidbits Thread

[Zeron_X25]

It's no 66C. It's dash 6C in the corner so you need to do a full dash and press 6C.

[BionicDemon]

Also, does it have to be level 2 Zaneiga? Or does it not matter?

[Zeron_X25]

It has to be level 2. Level 1 doesn't give enough float time.

[BionicDemon]

Been needing help for this for a while now, so thaaaanks!

[Zeron_X25]

no problem

[Reamatsu]

Oh screw browsing through this thread for the answer I'm looking for, already went through two others. Get ready to hear the question you guys always here as it's almost the practical way of playing CS2 hazama instead of doing CS combos all day. I'll go ahead and provide a combo for you-

6a Houtenjin 214D~C 6c 66 5c 2c 6d 4d j7d jakou j6d~d 6c 5c 2c j5c (xn) 214b

now I happened to get the first portion of this combo down against Lambda, Jin, and Bang by jumping slightly back during the j7d and jumping slightly forward into j6d, but I like to figure out is that after 5d pull connects after the j6d what input follows after for 6c to still combo? I successfully pulled it off like three times but I'm just not feeling the timing with this one. Is there an advance input or something I'm not doing right?

This would definitely help me out with the tutorial, two hours sitting down mashing the same combo and getting nowhere with it.

[Zeron_X25]

Oh screw browsing through this thread for the answer I'm looking for, already went through two others. Get ready to hear the question you guys always here as it's almost the practical way of playing CS2 hazama instead of doing CS combos all day. I'll go ahead and provide a combo for you-

6a Houtenjin 214D~C 6c 66 5c 2c 6d 4d j7d jakou j6d~d 6c 5c 2c j5c (xn) 214b

now I happened to get the first portion of this combo down against Lambda, Jin, and Bang by jumping slightly back during the j7d and jumping slightly forward into j6d, but I like to figure out is that after 5d pull connects after the j6d what input follows after for 6c to still combo? I successfully pulled it off like three times but I'm just not feeling the timing with this one. Is there an advance input or something I'm not doing right?

This would definitely help me out with the tutorial, two hours sitting down mashing the same combo and getting nowhere with it.

Sorry, what?

As for j.6D, it's in the super tutorial thread. You need to do 66C not 6C. There's actually a mini dash there if that's what you were asking.

[mikenapalm]

Oh screw browsing through this thread for the answer I'm looking for, already went through two others. Get ready to hear the question you guys always here as it's almost the practical way of playing CS2 hazama instead of doing CS combos all day. I'll go ahead and provide a combo for you-

6a Houtenjin 214D~C 6c 66 5c 2c 6d 4d j7d jakou j6d~d 6c 5c 2c j5c (xn) 214b

now I happened to get the first portion of this combo down against Lambda, Jin, and Bang by jumping slightly back during the j7d and jumping slightly forward into j6d, but I like to figure out is that after 5d pull connects after the j6d what input follows after for 6c to still combo? I successfully pulled it off like three times but I'm just not feeling the timing with this one. Is there an advance input or something I'm not doing right?

This would definitely help me out with the tutorial, two hours sitting down mashing the same combo and getting nowhere with it.

I've been mashing it since cs2 dropped and only started to get it consistently recently.

First of all, after the j6D-D you need to Dash 6C. Its a slight delay after the D follow up, then you input 66C as you're about halfway down the chain/ approaching the ground. It helps to hold the C button at first.

It's rather tricky so watch when they tech to figure when you need to adjust your timing.

[Reamatsu]

I've been mashing it since cs2 dropped and only started to get it consistently recently.

First of all, after the j6D-D you need to Dash 6C. Its a slight delay after the D follow up, then you input 66C as you're about halfway down the chain/ approaching the ground. It helps to hold the C button at first.

It's rather tricky so watch when they tech to figure when you need to adjust your timing.

This helped out a great deal and when I happen to pull off the combo like a few times (10/100) my recording equipment wasn't on. It's becoming comfortable for selected characters but I'm still practicing it to increase my rate of success. To think I spent like 4 hours on one combo in the last two days, hopefully I should get this fundamental down by the end of week and eventually I can ride through Hazama extended combos.

(I haven't playing much of others game or online since working on this. I actually want to see the outcome to this.)

[Zeron_X25]

This helped out a great deal and when I happen to pull off the combo like a few times (10/100) my recording equipment wasn't on. It's becoming comfortable for selected characters but I'm still practicing it to increase my rate of success. To think I spent like 4 hours on one combo in the last two days, hopefully I should get this fundamental down by the end of week and eventually I can ride through Hazama extended combos.

(I haven't playing much of others game or online since working on this. I actually want to see the outcome to this.)

The only tip you need, being a Ragna player as well, is that there is a mini dash. The same kind of dash that Ragna does after a 6C to make 5D(1) > deadspike work except that you hold the dash instead of let go because it's a forward motion normal anyways. The moment you dash is the moment you reach the ground.

[Reamatsu]

Yeah, it slightly resembles Ragna attempt of an extra dash before the 5d (1) 214d. It's has a tricky feel with Hazama but damn does it feel good once it connects, just can't wait to learn the other variations to shorter options instead of a book of tricks, don't get me wrong. I'm a person who would rather exploit the character possibilities instead of living it out with something basic or universal.

[Zeron_X25]

I wrote the list somewhere in the combo thread but you can use 66A instead of 66C on a lot of the cast.

[George Costanza]

Don't post too often so forgive me if these have been asked before.

I seem to be having massive amounts of trouble with two things

1. Getting j.6D to OTG. I've been practising this combo for a bit

Zaneiga(Lv2) > (dash)6C > dash 5C(2) > 2C > 6D~A > 4D~A > j.8D~A > Jakou > j.6D~D > 66C > dash 5C > 2C > jc > j.B > j.Cx2 > jc > j.Cx5 > Hirentotsu

And I just can't seem to get the j.6D to hit in time.

The timing is really awkward as I'm not sure if I'm supposed to immediately jump after the Jakou animation and as soon I hop perform the 6D or wait a while after the Jakou animation before jumping.

2. Geting j.8D to land in any houtenjin combo.

I seem to be able to land it fairly easy on every other combo, but when it comes to the Houtenjin>214D~C(charged) combos I can never get the third chain to hit, I either activate to close to the opponent and negate most of the hitstun or I'm too far away and they tech.

This isn't too much of a problem as I usually just leave out the j.8D but I would like to get the maximum damage output for my 50% heat.

[Zeron_X25]

1. Getting j.6D to OTG. I've been practising this combo for a bit

And I just can't seem to get the j.6D to hit in time.

The timing is really awkward as I'm not sure if I'm supposed to immediately jump after the Jakou animation and as soon I hop perform the 6D or wait a while after the Jakou animation before jumping.

The exact timing for this link is when Hazama grabs them with Jakou, hits them on the wall, they wallbounce and when they make a small floor bounce after hitting the ground, jump and do j.6D. Remember that you can't press 6 to jump so make sure to press 9, 7 or 8 and then make a quick quarter circle (Assuming you do 8)to 6 and then press D.

2. Geting j.8D to land in any houtenjin combo.

I seem to be able to land it fairly easy on every other combo, but when it comes to the Houtenjin>214D~C(charged) combos I can never get the third chain to hit, I either activate to close to the opponent and negate most of the hitstun or I'm too far away and they tech.

This isn't too much of a problem as I usually just leave out the j.8D but I would like to get the maximum damage output for my 50% heat.

This is something you must constantly adjust to with your own judgement if you've had enough experience with Hazama's combos but in general, what you want to do is make the 4D~A part of the combo hit in front of their stomach and preferably not under their legs because that means you either have to delay the j.8D a little more or depending on how you did the combo, you screwed yourself. Good thing to keep in mind is that if 4D~A hits them under their legs, usually a j.8D is the thing that will save your combo. But j.8D isn't the norm to use on most characters. It's almost always better to do j.7D and it reduces the possibility of getting the less hitstun version of D. The issue also might be because of 5C > 2C part of the combo. Make sure you always cancel 5C on the second hit and delaying 4D~A is recommended.

[_Sey]

How do you guys go about people not respecting Hazama's 214d~a midscreen oki?

I do understand how Hazama's oki works (dash meaty 2b/5c/command grab, 6a, iad j.3ab/j.b/j.2c; 2b/5c to beat people who don't emergency tech and confirm into 4k, etc.) but recently I played against some people that were ok at "mixing up" their wake up, and while it wasn't too big of a problem, it got me wondering if Hazama had an option to cover both emergency tech and late techs at the same time.

I've usually gone about it by mostly guessing what people would do but who knows, maybe I'm just missing something?

Most people would rather get meaty command grab'd on their emergency tech instead of losing half their life because they wanted to roll away, so it's not like it has ever been hard understanding what people were gonna do, and most of the time when people decide to not tech it's kind of obvious (for example if Litchi has no staff or 50% to CA, I'd expect that they could try to roll away or late neutral tech).

Reacting right away to what the opponent does after 214d~a seems kind of impractical, but it could just be me not being used to doing it.

[mikenapalm]

Honestly, I just make an educated guess most of the time and commit to it. I guess the best advice here would be to watch what your opponent tends to do most of the time.

I wonder if it's possible to time a dash 2A 5C so that the 2A will hit an E-Tech and the 5C will hit a roll attempt.

[_Sey]

I've actually found a way to set up a "sweet spot" to beat late techs while still being safe from emergency techs+mashing.

from a 2a confirm ~> 2a>5b>2b>5c>3c>214d~a and then 2b as oki

What happens is that if they try to late tech, 2b will catch everything since it's thrown out right away, if they emergency tech+mash 2a, they will be out of range.

Of course instead of 2b we can just dash > meaty whatever to mix up on an emergency tech.

I think it works with 5c oki as well, and it can be setup from any random hit as long as the distance is right; of course it's not dp safe ( not 100% sure on this, I only tried with Litchi's; Makoto's should whiff I think ).

I'll more than likely stick to doing guesses most of the time anyway, but something like this should be alright to test an opponent reactions to Hazama's oki.

[MetalMaelstrom]

You know what is funny as hell to do (and actually works sometimes)? After j.214B, walk/dash back (depending on how close you are) and do 3C. I laugh my ass off every time I hear "counter" whenever I do this. Don't do this against Jin, though, cos his 5C reaches far enough and comes out fast enough to catch you easily.

[Kujikawa]

Ermm, Why can't I connect j8D~A > 623D sometimes? The chain doesn't give enough stun and the opponent techs too fast. I think it has something to do with hieght, idk.

How do I resolve this?

Sorry if this as been asked before.

[Zeron_X25]

Which character are you trying it on? I could give you 18 different answers.

[Kujikawa]

Is it really that character specific? Not any general tips you can give me?

I am trying it on Ragna, atm.

[Zeron_X25]

Ragna is the easiest to do on and yes the timing is slightly different for characters. What you want to do is first of all, let 5C hit twice. Then you have to delay 4D~A so when you hit with 4D~A you hit near the front of Ragna's stomach and not under his legs. If you hit it under his legs, you have to delay the j.8D~A and/or Jakou.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axraUUC-R1U#t=10s

As you can see here.

[Hyen]

then if you want to learn hazama gameplay you must know about =

1.Timing

2.Adjusting

3.Oppenent char specific

any tips ???

[Fluck]

That's just combos, I'm afraid. Well, his combos are a lot less character specific in CSEX though. Gameplay wise, it's important to be able to move well with him, because he's all about his movement. Having a good defense is also important since he lacks good defensive tools. This is much easier said than done, of course.

Zeron, I think you should just make a dedicated Hirentotsu loop thread when we move over to EX. We'll need it, if the number of j.7D questions for CS2 is any indication.

[Zeron_X25]

Hmm good point but I was planning on putting hirentotsu stuff in the CSE Super tutorial thread. I guess combos can go in there and we can have a different thread for loop specifics and Q&A.