Timing differences between ps3 and 360 bbcs?

[TheBaron]

I don't know how many people have used both the 360 and ps3 version of bbcs, but the versions certainly feel different. I was told a few weeks ago that this difference was not only caused by input lag, but that xbox version ran "faster" than the ps3 or arcade version.

Angel(http://www.dustloop.com/forums/member.php?9642-Angel) plugged his arcade stick into both consoles at the same time and posted his results (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swzvuwV9EZk), which indicates that there is some sort of non input lag based timing difference between the two (if the problem was only input lag, the combo's would still hit, just a few frames offset).

So I captured the challenge mode demonstrations of a few combos, and synched them by the first move connecting. ( You can download the file I'm looking at http://www.mediafire.com/?3164z6dwi8ouc41 and watch it frame by frame (using vlc or premiere or anything))

I've been trying to find a pattern or explanation, and I haven't found one. (The third combo shown, Off Hakumen's J.D. is clearly different, but it could be that the timing on that combo is lenient enough that both variations work).

Does anyone have any information (preferably testable) on what differences in timing there are between the different console versions?

[qwerty]

not to discredit angel or his test (yet), but i would take it with a grain of salt until he clarifies how he connected one stick to two consoles, as well as the display connections (vga/dvi/hdmi/component) and technologies used (lcd/plasma/whatever).

that being said, i suspect there is a difference between the two. 360 feels closer to the arcade version, if you ask me.

[Delrian]

not to discredit angel or his test (yet), but i would take it with a grain of salt until he clarifies how he connected one stick to two consoles, as well as the display connections (vga/dvi/hdmi/component) and technologies used (lcd/plasma/whatever).

that being said, i suspect there is a difference between the two. 360 feels closer to the arcade version, if you ask me.

Think the bolded part is the most important factor, one of the comments in the YT video expresses a similar notion. I think the ability to tech those combos is what the main point of the video was.

But I see your point in that trying to calculate frames won't be accurate in this situation.

But I bet it's due to differences in the hardware (of either the stick, or the way PS3 handles something versus the 360).

[qwerty]

yeah, unless he's using a multi console pcb that can be plugged in to both at once without any input lag, i see no reason to fully trust his test just yet.

something worth noting though is that on srk, they found that the ps3 version of vanilla sf4 has an extra frame of input lag compared to the 360 and arcade versions. link

Edited November 10, 2010 by qwerty

[Angel]

Hey guys! First of all, I should say that this only really bugged me when I started playing at the arcade after playing exclusively on 360 for a while. I had no idea that there might be a subtle timing difference so the worse my execution got at the arcade, the more I tried focusing and doing it just like at home. Now that I play almost equally on 360, PS3, and arcade I feel I can adapt and be more consistent no matter what I'm playing on. It's just nice to know that I might need to adapt. On PS3 and the arcade I definitely feel like I need to slow my inputs down a bit.

Also, I later found this post about GG which tells me this isn't unheard of.

7) I'm the most dangerous player in America as tagged by the Japanese, but I can't do my combos and FRC's in the arcade! What gives?

not to discredit angel or his test (yet), but i would take it with a grain of salt until he clarifies how he connected one stick to two consoles, as well as the display connections (vga/dvi/hdmi/component) and technologies used (lcd/plasma/whatever).

As far as my test goes, I have a 360 TE stick that's dual modded with a Chimp. For this test I disconnected my 360 PCB from the Chimp and plugged it into the 360, and I connected the Chimp to the PS3. Both displays are DLP projection connected through HDMI. I don't really think the displays should matter here though since it's not really a question of display lag.

that being said, i suspect there is a difference between the two. 360 feels closer to the arcade version, if you ask me.

This is why I wanted to get a bit more scientific about this. Everything is hearsay, but everyone I've heard from has said the opposite (that the 360 runs fastest, and that the PS3 and arcade lag a bit so they're closer).

I think the ability to tech those combos is what the main point of the video was.

That's kind of it. For me, the big issue is that given the exact same inputs I get quite different results. I included those first few clips, even though I dropped the combos, because there was some weird things going on. In one of them, where I do the cross-up, Carl landed on different sides of the opponent on each console. In another clip, the alegretto canceled the j.2C on one console but not on the other.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Angel

[Spirit Juice]

I don't see how visual lag (tv connections, TV/projector used) plays a part in this since he is obviously using the left screen, the 360, to land his combos (which he does just fine for the most part). The only things in question should be how the stick is connected to the two consoles and whether or not the consoles have a difference in input lag. The former is probably more important than the latter right now.

[qwerty]

oh yeah, there's often speed/input differences in console ports, lol. gg, cvs2, mbaa come to mind (though i think mbaa's was intentional).

As far as my test goes, I have a 360 TE stick that's dual modded with a Chimp. For this test I disconnected my 360 PCB from the Chimp and plugged it into the 360, and I connected the Chimp to the PS3.

ah, makes sense.

Both displays are DLP projection connected through HDMI. I don't really think the displays should matter here though since it's not really a question of display lag.

it does matter a bit though, because i take it you were using the 360 version to do the combos on, right? if the 360's display was a bit laggier than the ps3's, then that could be a significant factor (assuming you rely on visual cues and not entirely on muscle memory). however, i trust that you know how much they both lag and wouldn't conduct a test without taking that into account. plus, if you wanna talk about closest to arcade, the bbcs vewlix L here in norcal has a screen that lags by ~2 frames. shrug, just something to take into account.

ideally, we'd do something like nki's test for input lag in ccc super turbo if we really wanted to figure this out once and for all.

[TheBaron]

More importantly, given the test Angel did, lag shouldn't matter. Input lag shouldn't change the timing of the combos. It certainly feels like there is less input lag on the 360 than the ps3, but that's not where the difference should be coming from.

Given Angels test as an example, even if his displays had different amount of input lag, and the chimp and 360 pcb have different inherent input lag, the timing, in terms of miliseconds between each button press, should be identical, as he is using the same physical inputs on the same buttons.

All the lag differences should do is change when each combo starts, not whether the combo lands or not.

[Angel]

The only things in question should be how the stick is connected to the two consoles and whether or not the consoles have a difference in input lag. The former is probably more important than the latter right now.

Actually, the input history on the bottom of the screen is usually perfectly identical, but from time to time I'd get things like this. By that point the combo had already been dropped on the screen on the right, so Carl wasn't doing the exact same thing. I guess that could have something to do with it.

ideally, we'd do something like nki's test for input lag in ccc super turbo if we really wanted to figure this out once and for all.

You're right. I've actually been wanting to do something like this.

[Vanilla]

I've heard that the PS3 has a universal 2 frame input lag because of how it handles inputs.

[Osuna]

This is very interesting and confusing.

However there is one case of delay that is indesputable. My friend on his 360 and I both wanted to play Valk when he came out and he's looking at about 311 million frames of delay.

[natearistata]

Looking at about 311 million to go, too -_-

[Vanilla]

Looking at about 311 million to go, too -_-

That is approximately 60 days. So Valk should be out on the 360 a couple of days before AH3, according to your estimation.

[Linear04]

i wouldnt be surprised if that were the case

[Kurushii]

I've heard that the PS3 has a universal 2 frame input lag because of how it handles inputs.

I believe you're thinking of playing PS2 games on PS3 which has lag.

[mr.mortified]

As far as my test goes, I have a 360 TE stick that's dual modded with a Chimp. For this test I disconnected my 360 PCB from the Chimp and plugged it into the 360, and I connected the Chimp to the PS3. Both displays are DLP projection connected through HDMI. I don't really think the displays should matter here though since it's not really a question of display lag.

if its a chimp and a 360 madcatz pcb then it should be the exact same timing, there should be no issue about inputs and input lag from each side.

[Angel]

if its a chimp and a 360 madcatz pcb then it should be the exact same timing, there should be no issue about inputs and input lag from each side.

Yeah, in fact, (I don't know why I didn't think of this before) looking at the input history in my recording frame by frame at nearly 60FPS shows that it's exactly the same, except in cases like the one I posted before.

[mr.mortified]

Yeah, in fact, (I don't know why I didn't think of this before) looking at the input history in my recording frame by frame at nearly 60FPS shows that it's exactly the same, except in cases like the one I posted before.

there you go, we already know that there is some form of lag from PS3 to Xbox360 from tests shown in street fighter 4 (xbox was actually faster by 1-2 frames i think)

(i'm not just full of shittalk and weaboo :3)

[Sindelian]

That is approximately 60 days. So Valk should be out on the 360 a couple of days before AH3, according to your estimation.

Wait.... seriously? He's STILL not out?!

[JammyKuradoberi]

i play on the ps3,but sometimes offline i play em with buddies who only do 360 lool they botth totally feel the same like yah

[PedroPicante]

I've actually made a thread on Shoryuken asking if anyone who is willing and able(in terms of owning the proper equipment for testing the delay). I PMed Shinshoryuken on there asking him if he was up for testing BB but no word yet.

Here is the thread: http://shoryuken.com/f177/need-help-testing-input-delay-ps3-360-blazblue-cs-256688/