The process of learning a character (BB-oriented, but also a general question)

[Kinezumi]

I'm not asking for info on mechanics and specific combos or anything, I'd just like to know what process you go through in order to learn a character. If you divide it up into "learn combos", "learn how to use their normals", "learn a couple of BnBs", "learn their guard crush moves" etc, how should you build up that knowledge and would you even divide it up like that in the first place?

I ask because I'm really wary of just mindlessly messing around with a few characters, picking up lots of bad habits and not really knowing what I'm doing outside of a couple of combos I won't have the spacing skills to utilise anyway. In the way one may go to a dietician and ask for an eating regimen, I'd like it if I could see some training regimens I could use to learn in a more disciplined way.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Play the charachter. A lot.

Watch pro video, notice what they do and why you fail. Try them in trainig.

Repeat to point 1.

In fact, the only way to "learn" a charachter is to play with him and learn from your mistakes.

[Kinezumi]

Well the reason I made this theread is because that doesn't seem to work for me. I'm never sure what I did wrong, like maybe I'd think I jumped when I shouldn't have, but next time something similar happens and I don't jump, it doesn't work either. So what exactly have I learned?

Even in SSFIV, which is a lot slower than BB, I'd spend 90% of online matches getting beaten around with no idea what the hell I was supposed to be doing, and the other 10% against people who had even less idea than me, so I could just do anything at all and still win. All I took away from my losses was "Holy crap, I suck. I tried to hit him and from then on I couldn't even get another hit in".

I'd watch loads of match videos, watch live streams, read about strategies and all that, but when it came to actually applying it I was just a mess and I might as well have just picked up the game for the first time. It felt like somewhere along the way my learning process was so badly off that I'd picked up a lot of bad habits and didn't know how to apply what I'd actually learned (if anything).

[Jun Hyung Joon]

It seems to me like you're rushing and expecting to become good too fast, it takes time to get better. I could be wrong about that statement, so don't go crazy on me for making it. =P

Go save you're replays and watch them and look for exactly what you're doing wrong. Are you dropping your combos? If so, go into practice mode and work on your executions. Another problem a lot of players have is that they auto-pilot. Meaning they just mindlessly go in a game and just start doing combos without a true purpose. Every move you throw out should have a purpose whether it is to move them into the corner, or bait out a move. When you're in an actual match read you opponent, look for patterns, mistakes they're constantly doing, and capitalize on those mistakes they make. About your bad habits find out what they are and go hammer them out.

You may keep watching, reading, and studying videos and threads that will help you, but in the end experience is key. So just keep on playing and practicing. Don't expect an over night miracle to happen and you become good all the sudden. You will slowly improve the more time and effort you put into it. You might not see improvement right away, but in a month or so you'll see your game getting better. It also helps to have some friends to play with that can always point out errors and see if you're really improving or not.

[Brother Mojo]

Before asking yourself what you should have done, ask yourself what happened. The first step is learning how to analyze what exactly happened in a given situation. Next is to figure out what your options were. Figuring out what you should have done comes last.

If you're thinking "I tried to hit him, but couldn't," you have to step back and figure out what was stopping you. Were your pokes getting stuffed? Were you unable to break through his pressure or zoning? Was he blocking and/or avoiding all of your attacks? What you'll need to do differently depends on why your attacks weren't working in the first place.

And this is why replays really help... you can go through the match step by step and analyze things a lot more than you have time to during a match, especially while you're still learning. The less familiar you are with the character, the more time it takes, so you probably won't be able to do this sort of analysis on the fly just yet.

Also, if you apply these ideas to other player's replays, like videos of pros, you'll learn a lot more than you would otherwise. Watching a player land a critical reversal or clever mixup that leads to them winning the match is impressive... but you won't really learn anything by just going "wow, cool." If you look at what both players could have done in that situation, and why what the winner did was correct, then you'll learn a lot more.

In terms of breaking things up, there's a whole lot to consider, and it's pretty overwhelming. There's spacing and footsies, pressure and blockstrings (from both an offensive and defensive perspective), combos, okizeme, etc. However, in the long run, you have to learn everything, so focus either on what you find the most interesting or what is proving to be the biggest problem for you... probably actually a bit of both, since it's important to improve in the areas where you're weak, but practice should be fun, too. It is a game.

[SolarMisae]

Depends if you're new to FGs or not. If you're super new like me, theres getting past the execution barrier, which is the first step. Doing that is basically just learning how to do combos and blockstrings and such. (I'm still at this step...guh...) But then theres the bigger step which is application, and knowing what to actually DO with it all. Stuff like when to use certain combos, whats most optimal in a given situation, character specific strategies etc. But in the end the only real way to truly learn how to use your character is to first, get past their execution barrier, then, just like others have said, just fight people and learn through experience...save you replays and learn through your mistakes, look up your matchups etc etc...

Just keep at it. It won't happen right away. It can take months, years even to be good at games like these.

[2nd_striker]

Basically i do it "long way"

1. read a guide- tells you what the character is about and what he can and cant do

2. watch videos to get a jist of what to do

3. learn normals

4. learn specials/supers

5. combos and integrate technical stuff like combos, throws cancels

6. play against the computer on harder difficulty levels to get a style together

7. play against other people

it could be the case if a character isnt working out for you he aint the one...

[DemiiPoet]

Basically i do it "long way"

it could be the case if a character isnt working out for you he aint the one...

This is also rather possible. Maybe play around with the entire cast for a week. Watch vids and see which ones you like best. Read about them. Try some of their challenge modes.

Also, possibly go to the "Picking a Main" thread and tell them how you play and if they can suggest any characters.

[Feanor]

6. play against the computer on harder difficulty levels to get a style together

Does it really help? I've beaten the Score Attack (as well as the Arcade Mode on Hell) and let me tell you I suck at this game badly. :P The AI knows your inputs and reacts to those instead of your actions, so it's easily fooled by mashing, easily counter-hit with a random super done from the other side of the screen and very hard to beat in a conventional manner. Also the AI is as guilty of making me abuse Sekkajin as a few of my PSN friends who always fall for it (kids, never try to hit a Jin out of sekka or you'll eat a CH; wait for him to end it instead and own him during the recovery), so I think it'll actually make you pick up bad habits instead of dropping them.

[mAc Chaos]

Nah, playing with human opponents is better. The computer makes you play in a different way than you actually would against humans and you end up having to unlearn a lot of things.

[zreb]

The AI doesn't know how to play any given character. The tactics a human player of a character will use are grossly different than what you will have to deal with when playing against an AI, which is almost like a high-tech button mashing simulator.

[KayEff]

Humans adapt. Computers don't.

Although this doesn't necessarily apply to online BB.

[Dusk Thanatos]

The most important thing is to get off autopilot.

I play on autopilot 95% of the time, and it's stupid. Last night, I was playing against Valkenhayn. He had Astral conditions, and I had just knocked him down.

I thought to myself, "this guy is gonna use the Astral as a DP. I should block."

I then promptly mashed 2B and and ate Astral.

People say it as a joke all the time, but I shouldn't have been pressing those buttons. Seriously. BB doesn't have Ciel, so I can't tell you to stop autopiloting by playing against a character that makes you eat 3k every time you throw out a move without thinking. But the main thing you need to do is actively think about what you're doing, understand why you're doing what you're doing (and whether it's safe, risky, or outright stupid), that sort of thing.

[Kinezumi]

It seems to me like you're rushing and expecting to become good too fast, it takes time to get better. I could be wrong about that statement, so don't go crazy on me for making it. =P

No no, this is definitely an element of it. I've been a big fighting game fan since I was a child but have been really inconsistent with playing them. As such I think I've developed the mentality "I've been playing these games for like 15+ years so why can't I do this fucking BnB combo?" even though there have been months or even years in between games. I mean, before BBCS the last one I played for say more than 2 days in a row was SSFIV in April, and before that probably Third Strike about 4 years ago.

Another problem a lot of players have is that they auto-pilot.

The most important thing is to get off autopilot.

Yes, this is definitely my major problem. I tend to panic and just go off a badly developed sense of instinct. Mainly it's because I'm trying to not be on autopilot, spend too much time thinking about what to do, get my ass handed to me, so revert to half-educated button mashing.

It seems to be a bit of a Catch 22 at first, though. You can't analyse everything you're about to do at first because you don't know enough about what will or won't work yet, so you kind of need to be a bit stupid and just wade in there and figure it all out, but then you're not thinking so are getting into the habit of autopiloting...

It also helps to have some friends to play with that can always point out errors and see if you're really improving or not.

Yeah this is another element that is a bit of a problem for me. Playing online makes me get really tense so my autopilot tendencies get the better of me. I also tend to just become really twitchy; like I'll jump when I don't mean to or do totally the wrong move by mistake, and I just have to stop playing after a few matches because I need to relax again.

Yet I don't really have anyone to play with IRL. Only about 3 of my friends could be said to be gamers at all, and of those 3 none of them are at the skill level in fighting games where they can even consistently pull off a hadouken. One of them has talked about getting CT, though, so I need to talk him into getting CS instead.

[deadsnake]

I am so gonna read this thread because I'm suffering from a mindless-game disease too

well, usually mindless games starts from being aggressive or maybe... too aggressive and in the end it'll put u in a very unwanted situation >___>

the best thing I could do to fix that is go into defensive(or react on enemy's action), but in the end there's a flaw, I got bait easily and being too defensive is just...crap...I can get any chance to start a combo unless my opponent does such a huge blunder...

so my resolution is to play in between defensive and aggressive nor switch modes as u need to, easy to say, hard to do...

in the end it's just a mind game between u and ur opponent..

[M.Chaos]

Is instictive always a bad thing?....most of the time......yes if you know your character deeply ( I mean REALLY REALLY deaply) No if your hesitant.

I suffer from it constantly. Vs. distance....I tend to block alot...vs. rushdown I tend to accel or stop pressure, but vs. characters that have both...the impulse kicks in and causes me to make mistakes (aka using distortions that won't hit), but it work wierdly.

I've been playing fighting games since.......well I'm just gonna say Snes and leave the actual game name out of the question, and time has taught me to not only learn your own characters moves but your enemies moves, and put them in a "watch for list" to affect reflex/autopilot against them. aka if Haku drives=Grab.This a visable method of approaching learning a character...or do I sprout nonsenselence shenanigans?

[Chozo003]

Personally I've never had a problem with autopiloting; just as in real life I'm very much a reactive competitor (stemming from judo), and thus found Hakumen a very well suited character. Other characters, I tend to struggle a lot with... there are a lot of characters I'd really like to play (for fun) but find myself having a very hard time trying to learn.

[Kinezumi]

Well I played my friend yesterday. He's never played Blazblue before though he did dabble in GGXX. He picked Ragna first and just randomly button mashed and beat the crap out of me. It was the thing I was talking about where I don't know how to not go mindless and button mash in these situations because you have a fraction of second to think of something to do and the other guy is just doing random shit you can't predict.

He beat me the first round but in the 2nd and 3rd I pretty much looped her dragon punch into air Drive, then follow up on the ground and repeat, over and over again. It was pretty unsatisfying because all I was doing was locking him down so he couldn't button mash because then I'd die.

Then he picked Noel and just spammed Drive combos and beat me without me getting much of anything off. It was just endless hits against me and I had no time to think of anything or to set up anything. He won two straight rounds. Then he picked Rachel and I easily beat him, getting two near-Perfects. So basically all I learned was if he button mashes like crazy with an appropriate character, I'm in trouble. If he doesn't pick a spammy character, I will easily win by doing anything. This is the kind of problems I was talking about earlier; I don't know how I'm meant to learn from these sorts of experiences.

Oh, and after I won against his Noel and Rachel (we'd been playing for only about 5-10 minutes total) he said he'd had enough and didn't want to play any more...

[Nini Heart]

Sorry, but if he beat you by randomly mashing then you're pretty much not good and need to learn the game/practice more, to know when you can attack, what move is safe, what move can punish what, etc.

Just work on your matchup knowledge/blockstring knowledge/punish options. Online is great for this.

[Kinezumi]

That's... kind of the point of this thread? This game only came out about 4 days ago here and I'm just saying that moving beyond just randomly mashing to actually trying to learn stuff seems kind of hard to grasp when some moron just bashing away mindlessly will win against my practice and knowledge of the technical elements.

I could have beaten his Noel if I'd picked Ragna or Noel and just button mashed too. All this technical stuff like blockstrings would be for nothing against some idiot just rushing you down and mashing shit. Trying to predict what he's going to do next? Forget it. He doesn't know what he's going to do next. My knowledge of the technicalities of the game are far higher than this other guy's - BB and fighting games in general - but it's applying that knowledge that I have a problem with.

While button mashing isn't rewarded as much in games like SSFIV, I did notice that picking Ryu and Ken and just acting like a kid playing SFII (i.e. spam SRKs, jumping hurricane kicks for no reason) was a lot more successful online than picking someone like Makoto and trying to use them thoughtfully.

[C0R]

Your strat will win.

Just need to level up first.

Practise practise is the tried and true solution, don't lose hope after setbacks. A clear mind and fresh tactics will always finish first in the long run.

[Feanor]

Button mashing Ragnas are a fearsome opponent for inexperienced players who try to actually think when they're playing (think Maxi from Soul Calibur... actually, think just Soul Calibur) but all mashers have at least one single weakness, an achilles' heel you can exploit to put an end to their convoluted Beginner Mode strings. This secret technique, devised by ancient warrior monks in arcades of yore, knowledge of which has been circling around the world and passed down from masters to their adepts... you may have heard its name, at the sound of which all mashers tremble with fear and excrement all over their underpants in fury if you use it on them - "blocking". Now I shall share this skill with you, so that never again should you fall prey to fierce button mashers. Press and hold down-back on your gamepad, and patiently watch your opponent's attempts to break your powerful secret shaolin guard. If you see him using an overhead move or jumping, quickly switch to holding back, without a shred of a second of hesitation, and then again crouch when he's done. Be patient, my padawan, and keep watching. If the Force is strong in you you will soon notice which of your opponent's moves leave him defenseless for long enough for you to punish his ignorance. If you use this technique, prediction matters not since your opponent has to recover from an attack before he is able to mash out another one. When you show off the skills given to you by this secret knowledge and hurt him greatly in the name of the Secret Shaolin Arcades , be sure to shout in his ear the ancient warcry of warrior monks - "U MAD?!" - thus you will ultimately demonstrate your superiority to him and you can rest assured that most likely he will never challenge you again.

In other words, if you make your defense impregnable, your style will be impetuous.

[Ashen]

Against a masher you just use frame traps. Easy as that. You get a free combo.

Basically to learn a new character:

1. Learn combos

2. Learn frame data

3. Learn blockstrings/frametraps/spacing moves

4. Learn matchups

5. Learn character specific combos/gimmicks

[Lord Knight]

Beginner

1. Learn basic combos

2. Learn what moves your character likes to use most often

3. Learn to combo off those moves

4. Learn basic pressure

Intermediate

1. Learn hardest variations of basic combos

2. Learn situational combos

3. Absorb the concept of spacing

4. Improve pressure

5. Learn matchups, the ones you'll play the most (all the common characters or whoever your friends use)

6. Improve hitconfirm

Advanced

1.Master matchups

[Ashen]

Improving hitconfirm and not-autopiloting is just something you get overtime. Not just learning a new character.