Kuuhaku Report post Posted December 9, 2010 Now that all the needed information for CS2 is now out, this is a comprehensive list of changes. Thanks to wuku for translating some stuffs. Also thanks to mook crew for getting the frame data stuff up and running. Resources: -CS II JPN video thread -JPN BBS Rachel Character Forum -BBCS2 Rachel Frame Data Buff General- Damage has gone up considerably, and now that most CS2 characters have reduced mid screen damage, Rachel's mid screen damage is now threatening. With new gatlings, a returned j.A overhead, and a better pumpkin, she also has very strong mix up options. + 2A: Now neutral on block. + 6A: it’s now really good anti-air. 5 frames less recovery. If you have 50% meter, you can expect 3000 ~ 4000 dmg combo ends up with 3C > pumpkin oki setup. + 5B Air unblockable. Gatlings into 2B (and you can loop it). + 4B Air unblockable. + 6B: Slides enemy. 6B (counter hit) > 9jB connects. Gatlings into 5C, 3C, and 6C. Air unblockable. Jump cancellable. +5C, 5CC: Both are air unblockable. Corner bounds (if 5CC causes the opponent to hit the corner, untechable time is added). + 3C: has wider vertical hitbox, but still cannot pick up all characters. Is now 0 on block. Also gives good damage as a starter. Now a lvl 4 attack. + 2C: You can connect to j.C even if you don’t use the wind. Air unblockable. + 6C: Forces standing on hit. Now lvl 4 attack (can connect to 5B on CH even if not using wind). +4 on block. + j.A: overhead. + j.B: j.B > j.2C works + j.2C: cancels into normals on landing. + All Lobelias: The active hit box disappears once Rachel gets hit, but the seed itself still remains and sets up the pole. So only pole setup is guaranteed. + Frog: now you can setup frog again even if there is already frog out. Has wider attack range and hit box. + Frog Gauge: Frog gauge does not appear if Rachel is hit/techs a throw while George is out or if George is killed. Frog gauge does appear if any of the above happen after George starts to activate. + Pumpkin: Travels farther and faster. Is now +10 on block (before it was +5, a considerable buff since ground IB was nerfed to 3 frames advantage instead of 5, meaning that even if IBed you are +7). + BBL: body lily has more damage. 1950 damage total. Minimum damage of 600. + Ground throw: Corner bounds (see 5CC). Damage increased to 1200. + Air Throw: When you do air throw low enough, you can do follow up combo without 2D. Damage increased to 1600. Vertical hitbox is huge. + Wind’s effect is now stronger than CS1 + Wind recovery speed is slower than CS1. But wind recovery ‘acceleration’ speed way faster than CS1. During level 1 TD summon, Rachel can gain back 3 bars. + Tempest Dahlia: Does not spent wind gauge anymore. New level system: Lvl 1 TD: Needs 0 wind = CS1 lvl 1 TD Lvl 2 TD: Needs 1 wind = similar to CS1 lvl 1 TD but giant bat appears at the end. Lvl 3 TD: Needs 2 wind = CS1 Lvl 2 TD Lvl 4 TD: Needs 3 winds = CS1 lvl 3 TD Lvl 5 TD: Needs 4 winds = CS1 lvl 4 TD. Lvls 2-5 start up faster by 3 frames. Once a projectile is produced, it's active frames are guaranteed. Rachel recovers 14 frames sooner and is even able to mix up with TD as a cover. All versions are + on block. Nerf - 5A: 6 frames now. - 2B: has shorter reach now. - 5CC: slides you down once ground hit instead of the stun impact. Can connect other moves (frog, 2b, 5b) only at the corner. Still does slide down effect even if they're hit in the air. However, can still be looped in the corner. - 6C: Has 60% repeat proration. 5B > 6CD > jB > 5B > 6CD > jC > 5B > 3C does about 2000 damage. 5B > 6CD > JC > 5B > jc > J3BD > J2C > 5C > 3C does about 2700 damage. - j.2C: No longer overhead. 80% repeat proration (applies to levels 1-3). - A Lobelia: Has 2 frames more recovery than CS1. -4 on block now (though due to IB nerf, it's just as negative on IB as it would be in CS1). -BBL rod is dead. -Last hit of TD (the final projectile) has 30% proration (TD combos, for what little use they had in CS1 are now pretty much dead). Other 2B and 5B now have projectile property. Misc - JC (ch) > (land) 5B > jc > JC > jc > 2D > J2C (lvl 2) > B Lobelia > JC > Air iris > HJC > JC does about 3100 damage. - (corner) 5B > 5CD > C > B Lobelia > 6A > Double Lily does about 4500 damage. - Throw > Lily > Lily > 6C 8D > JC > jc > JC does about 5000 damage. Proration and damage (CS1 to CS2 comparison) 5A -Damage nerf (150x2 instead of 200x2) -p1 nerf by 1 point +p2 buffed by 3 points 2A +damage buff by 50 points -p1 super nerfed (from 85 to 78) +p2 buff (from 82 to 85) 6A +damage buffed by 100 -p1 nerfed by 5 points =p2 same 5B +damage buffed by 150 -p1 nerf by 5 =p2 same 2B +damage buffed by 40 +p1 and p2 buffed (10 for p1, 2 for p2) 4B +damage buff by 200 -p1 super nerfed (from 90 to 70) +p2 buffed by 3 6B +damage buffed by 100 =p1 same -p2 slightly nerfed (1pt nerf) 5C +damage buffed by 200 =p1 same +p2 buffed by 7 5C follow up +damaged buffed by 200 =p1 same +p2 buffed by 9 =*50% same move proration 6C =damage same +p1 buffed by 15 -p2 wrecked (28 pts down) 2C +damage buffed by 200 =p1 same +p2 buffed by 5pts 3C =damage same +p1 super buffed (20 pts!) +p2 buffed by 2pts 3[C] =looks the same jA =damage same -p1 super wrecked (down by 20pts) =p2 same jB =same jC +damage buffed by 150 =p1 same +p2 buffed by 9 points j2C -damage nerfed by 120 +p1 buffed by 10 pts =p2 same j2C lvl 2 and 3 =same -*80% same move proration on j2C all levels Throw +damage buffed by 200 -p1 nerfed by 10pts -p2 nerfed by 15pts Air Throw +damage buffed by 550 -p1 nerfed by 10pts -p2 nerfed by 15pts A cannon +damage buffed by 50pts +p1 buffed by 5pts =p2 same B cannon +damage buffed by 50pts +p1 buffed by 5pts =p2 same C cannon +damage buffed by 50pts +p1 buffed by 5pts =p2 same Sword Iris -damage nerfed by 200 +p1 buffed by 8pts -p2 nerfed 8pts George XIII +damage buffed by 45 =p1 and p2 same Pumpkin =damage, p1, p2 same Baden-Baden Lily +damage buffed by 180x6 =p1 p2 same +minimum damage is now 600 Baden-Baden Lily (rods) -damage super nerfed (from 540x4 to 150x4) -p1 nerfed by 2 pts +p2 buffed by 14pts -minimum damage reduced to 120 (used to be 448) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordPangTong Report post Posted December 10, 2010 Any word on whether or not J.2C (lv.1) is overhead or mid? Not that it's really needed cause of J.A overhead, but still Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killionaire Report post Posted December 10, 2010 It's mid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotokot Report post Posted December 10, 2010 ???- 3Cが縦に強くってのはどうなったんだ 全キャラ拾えるなんて事はないだろうけど seems like 3C hitbox is higher, can pick up not all chars 3C>ｱｲﾘｽの後に5CCが繋がった。 端のコンボパーツにならんだろうか。 3C>iris can be connected with 5CC sorry for my japanese:psyduck: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FullAutoDeath Report post Posted December 10, 2010 Rachel - 6A: it’s now really good anti-air. If you have 50% meter, you can expect 3000 ~ 4000 dmg combo ends up with 3C > pumpkin oki setup. - 5B: damage increased. 5B > 6B already does more than 1000 dmg. - 6B: 6B (counter hit) > 9jB connects. 6B > 6C connects. - 2B: has shorter reach now. - 3C: has wider vertical hitbox - 2C: has shorter guard point frame. Has more higstop now. You can connect to JC even if you don’t use the wind. - 6C: Forces standing once hit. Has more proration now. 5B > 6CD > jB > 5B > 6CD > jC > 5B > 3C does about 2000 damage. 5B > 6CD > JC > 5B > jc > J3BD > J2C > 5C > 3C does about 2700 damage. - 5CC: slides you down once ground hit instead of the stun impact. Can connect other moves (frog, 2b, 5b) only at the corner. People don’t want to use this at the field. They rather just use 5C > 3C> frog setup. - JA: overhead now. JA > J2C doesn’t work. - JB: JB > J2C works - JC : has more untechable time. - J2C: No longer overhead - All Lobelias: The hitbox disappears once Rachel gets hit, but the seed itself still remains and sets up the pole. So only pole setup is guaranteed. - A Lobelia: now has more recovery than CS1. You can’t throw 2 cannons while BBL hits. - Frog: now you can setup frog again even if there is already frog out. Has wider attack range and hit box. Has less life now. - BBL: body lily has more damage. Pole lily has less damage. - Air Throw: When you do air throw at the low enough air, you can do follow up combo without 2D. - Wind’s effect is now stronger than CS1 - Wind recovery speed is slower than CS1. But wind recovery ‘acceleration’ speed way faster than CS1. Even if you have no wind, you can get full wind back while Body Lily hits. Overall, most people on thread were happy with wind regeneration.. - Throw > Lily > Lily > 6C 8D > JC > jc > JC does about 5000 damage. - 5B > 2B > 5B chain is possible. but due to the knockback impact and 2B’s short reach, 5B > 2B > 5B > 2B doesn’t work. Maybe you can do 5B > 2B > 5BD > 2B (x N) - Tempest Dahlia: does not spend a wind gauge anymore. Lvl 3 and 4 startup is faster now. Has less recovery now. When you’re using lvl 4 version, you can move even before the King George comes out. - JC (ch) > (land) 5B > jc > JC > jc > 2D > J2C (lvl 2) > B Lobelia > JC > Air iris > HJC > JC does about 3100 damage. - (corner) 5B > 5CD > C > B Lobelia > 6A > Double Lily does about 4500 damage. Good news for the most part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenonX Report post Posted December 11, 2010 + 2C: You can connect to JC even if you don’t use the wind. Is this CH only? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varamathras Report post Posted December 11, 2010 + 2C: You can connect to JC even if you don’t use the wind. Is this CH only? It should never be not counter hit if your using 2C right Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tofurr Report post Posted December 12, 2010 Wow, pumpkin seems faster than CT pumpkin and since wind has some more oomph to it Rachel can zoom across the screen fast and it seems the pull in off of a CH 2C makes it easier to combo off of it aswell as the j.C>2D> lv2 j.2C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checkplus Report post Posted December 13, 2010 I'm realizing more and more that this is exactly what she needed. She's not so different that much re-learning will be necessary. j.c-9JC-2d-lvl 2 j.c is seeming like it is still extremely important, which makes me even happier. Not a big fan of the new wind system, but I still don't totally understand it. 6a ftw though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Top_Cat Report post Posted December 13, 2010 Any word on whether or not J.2C (lv.1) is overhead or mid? Not that it's really needed cause of J.A overhead, but still its mid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirbster Report post Posted December 15, 2010 Oh, did any of Rachel's normals become air unblockable? 5B would be nice, especially in corner pressure... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
currentlemon Report post Posted December 16, 2010 Oh, did any of Rachel's normals become air unblockable? 5B would be nice, especially in corner pressure... Yes, I do believe that Rachel's 5b is air-unblockable. Does 5cc still cause a wall-bounce, corner and mid-screen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kotokot Report post Posted December 16, 2010 http://www.rupan.net/uploader/download/1292490876.zip pass : cs2 all moves damage and prorate. Also calculating damage sample. btw same move proration on j2C 80%? am i mistaken? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varamathras Report post Posted December 16, 2010 Just copying my post from Luffy's castle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted December 16, 2010 :3 Ty. I'll add that on top of posting a comparison. There's some interesting (and funny) values. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raektis Report post Posted December 18, 2010 First off, my first post ever on these forums, whee! I started playing BBCS like 3 days ago, it just recently came out here in Europe. Anyways, I picked Rachel, she's cute and all. Now with this new patch coming, I see that the combo I've been training the most (5CC -> Frog setups) is being taken away? Is there any quaranteened way to land Frog on your opponents anymore, outside corners? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tofurr Report post Posted December 18, 2010 They're doing 5B, 5C, 3C, frog now. Also, that DL link doesn't work anymore, what were the sample combos with the damage values? Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snipingsnipe Report post Posted December 18, 2010 Does anyone know if theres a way to combo off rachels new 5cc midscreen? It seems like you might be able to fit a 236c 6d but im not sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TTRlovesMittens Report post Posted December 18, 2010 Like I said, 5B 6A 2D5CC might still work. I just haven't seen anyone do something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gli Report post Posted December 19, 2010 Really liking how Rachel is playing out now. Tager specific shenanigans again. Really good damage on things. 6C forcing standing means you actually have a way of capitalizing a confirmed crouching opponent on hit. In CT it was j.2C to combo extend on crouching character so I wonder if that would work in CSII? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuuhaku Report post Posted December 19, 2010 ^ Yes, I believe you can. j3DA is also known to extend combos. As for 5CC mid screen, I believe that's dead. 5CC seems mainly to shoot people in the corner and for corner combos. Rachel's combos seem to mainly be 5B stuff 3C frog or something into 6C corner carry 5CC, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tofurr Report post Posted December 19, 2010 Yeah, and things that lead to an air combo and the j.c, j2d, j.2c, etc. They seem to be using that in every Rachel vid I've seen for the most part mid screen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeoZero Report post Posted December 20, 2010 Buff not listed: She can do TD with no wind bar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gli Report post Posted December 20, 2010 Wow nice find, I didn't recognize that in the vid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pikdum Report post Posted December 20, 2010 3c, 236b, 5a > air combo!? did that work in CS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
