[CS2/EX] Hakumen Info and Discussion

[mjting]

Not used to seeing him do significantly less damage though. i miss the hard hitting haku.

[mAc Chaos]

Well, he still hits hard, in the corner... I was just looking at his match with Noel though. She did like 4k easily and he was struggling to do 3k.

Looks fun though. Also I'm not sure if his C moves actually got faster, but it might seem that way because he can followup with it.

That Haku wasn't following up j.C with 5C > 3C. That could mean it's not possible after all... also the combo he got off j.C did more damage than the other usual starters.

I like the idea of giving the game more "turns" though. Those matches had a lot of back and forth. It wasn't like fighting Litchi where you just have to get hit twice, basically, and lose. Although that all depends on whether it stays that way.

[mjting]

I noticed that, on the vids, not much enma combos done. i think we should really wait for someone to start doing his usual staples now so as to gauge. most combos on the vid werent even remotely performed in cs1 like 4c ch to enma.

If the info given is true that he can still dish out 3200 off of renka enma to stuff, then its pretty acceptable as most of the cast had their damage nerf(someone please tell me this is true)

i feel for ragna though, dude cant even break 2k.

[ryokoalways]

It's pretty hard to tell if the character overall is good because no one knows what the hell they are doing yet. At the very least, he isn't bad in any category on first view.

Kishuu shortened distance is due to them cutting out animation, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a good change. It's now a much faster animation, so it may be a legitimate mix-up opening depending on frame data. If possible, this will replace hotaru as the anti-jump tool with a handful of new air unblockables.

Note:4C>kishuu is not safe, but having gurren and kishuu options makes it relatively safe. I think 5B/5C/2C would be safe though (unless IBed).

4C special cancel is going to be the backbone of hakumen game play, mainly because any type of combo that has renka is now worthless in damage. You can get similar damage off 4C for less magatama spent. I'd think you would want to avoid using renka, so any A poke into renka would probably be discouraged unless you are looking to blow meter. Don't forgo close range completely though, but understand that your pokes are for conditioning purposes, and try to use them to set up better starters (5C and 5B< especially 5B since now it's air unblockable)

Need to figure out if hotaru (regular and counter)>kishuu 5C works, at ground level. I think at the very least, counter> air dash> j2C>etc should work if timed correctly. Should still be usable in the middle of the screen, but the damage and carry are both reduced. In the corner, the wall bounce on counter should allow some type of 6C combo (assuming air hit has enough untech time). Another trajectory change that should be looked at is jD, although I'm told you can't do much with it. And finally, both are no longer primary options as AA. Should start using 5A/5C liberally.

jC>5C knockdown is probably no longer universal. However, I do believe it's still viable in certain combos. For combos that cannot result in knockdown, need to explore the 2C>kishuu option now that kishuu is quicker (2C being wider will help). Corner game will need to be reworked, but I don't believe this will be an issue.

Corner throw combo not requiring meter is good. Seems like you can't cancel anyways. Air throw has wider range, but that's a general buff (ie, everyone has that buff afaik).

I think if they had done something about wake-up options, the game would have been pretty good. Overall changes makes sense, but we will have to see if there is consistency.

[ryokoalways]

Quoting myself, it seems like I was mostlyly correct in my assumptions:

2C major buff: Larger hitbox, hakumen hitbox much better, and benefits a lot from new kishuu

Renka(1)>kishuu>6C works

Therefore,

Corner (3 magatamas)

5C>renka(1)>kishuu>6C>2C>j2A>j2C>2C>j2A>j2A>jC>5C>3C

for ~5500

2B starter results in over 4000

If distance to corner is farther, add gurren to close distance for same combo

Furthermore, adding tsubaki between kishuu and 6C will put dmg output at ~6500.

5C>renka>kishuu>tsubaki>6C>dash>2C>etc

Middle of screen

hotaru(fatal, 5 magatamas)

hotaru>land>air dash j2C>5C>above combo for ~5500

Timing of landing j2C is same as CS 6D>air dash j2C in terms of height.

If wall bounce,

hotaru>6C(full charge)>5C>renka(1)>kishuu>tsubaki>2C>etc for around 6000

Normal hit and non-fatal both works

Forgot exact combo, but there was one for 6.8k

Adding a 6C(full charge) to the first combo (with tsubaki) can go over 7k

[Sophisticat]

Okay, so after seeing him in action... I'm not sure I like what I see. I prefer my Haku to be a hard hitter, and it seems he still has the same mixup/approach/pressure difficulties (perhaps actually worse now, but new Kishuu might offer some cool stuff).

I think his game will revolve around getting people into the corner, which is where it seems his big damage will come from.

Of course, this is barely a few days in, so it's only a preliminary impression.

[mAc Chaos]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10715-BBCS2-Summary-amp-Impressions

Looks like our old friend that we all know and love is back to his CT status.

And by old friend I mean Arakune.

[Warhound]

His 4C is cancelable now, which I fear that's all some Hakus will do is sit back, 4C > Gurren > Enma > etc. But I do like the option of being able to do so.

Personally, I don't have a problem with new Haku. Small but easy damage midscreen, bomb-ass damage in the corner. I can live with that. Slide on j.214C and 6C on air hit looks so awesome btw.

[mjting]

judging from the last post on the prev. page here. seems that his enma combos can still do lotsa good damage with 5c as base starter. 2800-3-something is a pretty good number for the game now. I've even seen makoto average 1900 to low 2k's from the games atm. we'll have to see first though, although jin looks stupid strong.

[Chozo003]

Does anybody have a link to some match videos?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Does anybody have a link to some match videos?

This took longer than i wanted it to but.....eh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS9C47xoIeE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUCKGEoD6tw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLaVQ0tXdgc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXTAj7hgz4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bc7rzHawc0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cO0lXr3pd0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfnOkTD2oTg

Those are parts 4 and 5.

Part 1: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12999500

Part 2: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12999796

Part 3: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13001068

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRwffB-nOEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCYDr6LsRu8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sla9hXqo3ZY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUUhJlu2_oo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq8UdEtN9lo

Next time check threads before you ask.

[Warhound]

judging from the last post on the prev. page here. seems that his enma combos can still do lotsa good damage with 5c as base starter. 2800-3-something is a pretty good number for the game now. I've even seen makoto average 1900 to low 2k's from the games atm. we'll have to see first though, although jin looks stupid strong.

I don't think it's that Jin is stinkin' strong, I think it's more the fact that Jin hasn't changed THAT much, so people pretty much immediately know how to be effective with him.

It is very possible that he's strong though, old j.B is pretty much back isn't it?

[Tachyons]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10687-BlazBlue-Continuum-Shift-II-Changes-NON-HELPFUL-POST-TEMPBAN&p=872647&viewfull=1#post872647

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10687-BlazBlue-Continuum-Shift-II-Changes-NON-HELPFUL-POST-TEMPBAN&p=873090&viewfull=1#post873090

New major combo route is Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 5C/2C/6C

That's some massive damage.

[mAc Chaos]

I'm surprised it doesn't prorate from Renka...

[Ronin Jinobi]

Now that's what I like to call big damage o_o

5500 and 6000~ isn't so bad for midscreen damage, considering most people were like "oh he can't do stuff midscreen" >:3

edit: nvm saw that it was a fatal. good to know that wall bounce leaves plenty of time for a full charge 6C:kitty:

[Sophisticat]

Note the amount of stars it takes. You could do more with less in CS with 5c x2 mid-screen.

Corner too, I'm kind of concerned about the amount of stars it's taking for that kind of damage. I see you can get 5.5k with 3mag, so that's cool. Anything higher seems kind of pointless atm, though. Better to conserve stars for mixup into more 5k+ stuff than blow it all on a 7k combo imo.

But one good thing about this is that it seems to be easier to get that kind of damage mid-screen. Your options are kind of limited in CS for the big stuff, so this seems to rectify that.

It'll take some getting used to, but new Haku seems to have better combo options that before.

[Re4L14124c]

is kishuu enma not practical now? why the need to cancel into C instead of enma from kishuu, or is it just because we [can] do it now?

[ryokoalways]

５Ｃ＞enma＞Ｊ２Ｃ＞２Ｃ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞ＪＣ＞２Ｃ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞ＪＣ＞５Ｃ＞３Ｃ for 3.8k in the corner, and outrageous meter gain. I am skeptical that this combo actually works though, but here it is.

As for omitting enma, in the corner adding a 6C is better than doing enma. Situationally, omitting enma could also be necessary to set up certain combos for correct knockdown. I certainly don't think it's ever practical to do 5C after omitting enma.

[mjting]

all i can say for haku mid screen combos outside of zantetsu and tsubaki or rc.

DAT LOW DAMAGE

but seriously, I'm really underwhelmed/disappointed at the new haku changes. If they're wanting him to go zoner haku, then i believe that he's a bit under equipped for that role, nor is he really designed for it (like lambda). really good new "tools" and stuff though, but I'd rather have less gimmick for more damage really.

the LOL low damage will also make it harder to really come back in a match too.

[ryokoalways]

Not really. Not being able to get 3k off 2A/5A and a low not having 120% proration makes sense.

Situational damage isn't a bad thing, not to mention it's not unreasonably hard for Hakumen to move the screen.

[WallJumpMan]

５Ｃ＞enma＞Ｊ２Ｃ＞２Ｃ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞ＪＣ＞２Ｃ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞Ｊ２Ａ＞ＪＣ＞５Ｃ＞３Ｃ for 3.8k in the corner, and outrageous meter gain. I am skeptical that this combo actually works though, but here it is.

are you sure this actually works?

where did u find this out?

[ryokoalways]

jpbbs, obviously

[WallJumpMan]

if u say so

i rly hope its true

[mjting]

@ryoko I was referring to a ch 5c starter to typical enma stuff. I saw a post in the genral discussion iirc that 5c enma, jc j.2c 2c j2a j.2a j.c is a pathetic 2k compared to a 3300-3700 now. WTF.

if it were lows or A's for that matter, I don't really mind how low the damage can get.

[mAc Chaos]

Most everybody's damage is in that range in CS2.