[CS2/EX] Hakumen Info and Discussion

[Spark]

6A is +0 on normal block now.

[kotokot]

Couple other midscreen combos from extend. might be off in notation/numbers a bit. doing from memory.

(2) 3c (CH), 2B, 214A, IAD, j.B, j.A, land, 5C, 623A, 2C, j.B, j.2A, air dash, j.2A, j.C

~3.1k damage

(3) hotaru, delay slightly, iad, j.2c, land, 214A, iad, j.B, j.A, land, 2c, j.2a, dash, j.2a, j.c

~3k damage

(3) 6a (anti air counter), hop, 236b (1), 623a, 2c, j.b, j.2a, air dash, j.b, j.a, land, 2c, j.2a, air dash, j.2a, j.c

~3.4k dmg

do you need to do 623A in first combo?

does works hotaru>iad>j.B/j.2C>5C>2C>etc?

6A is +0 on normal block now.

awww=(

[mAc Chaos]

6A is +0 on normal block now.

argh why must they continue raping this move

how worth it in pressure do you think it is now?

[Spark]

Not really worth it, on IB you can't really do anything safe that will let you continue pressure and on normal block doing 2A will trade or lose against most of the other 2As in the game. Only time in pressure it might be useful is when they're falling and you catch them with 5A into 6A.

[KirbyMorph]

do you need to do 623A in first combo?

does works hotaru>iad>j.B/j.2C>5C>2C>etc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zPscCmFWm30#t=81s

you can see the 3c (ch) combo there. they are airborne for the 5c, so the kishuu will cancel it and put you next to where they land. and the hotaru combo is mistaken, should be j.c, 214a instead of j.2c.

[dioxideUniversa]

do you need to do 623A in first combo?

does works hotaru>iad>j.B/j.2C>5C>2C>etc?

Excluding the 623a requires another j.B inbetween the j.2a Airdash j.2a, which is techable before the 2nd j.2a. This is with 2c sj.B, and as far as I can tell, there's no way to make 2c j.B work out...

(2) Fatal Hotaru -> IAD -> j.B -> 5c -> otg 2c -> sj.B -> j.2a -> Airdash -> j.B -> j.2a -> j.C [3262/1.25]

The sj.B has to be delayed for the spacing to work and it may not work at all on smaller characters. Instead of 5c otg 2c, you can do 5c -> Gurren -> IAD -> j.B -> j.A -> 5c -> otg 2c for a longer version that shouldn't have spacing issues.

Using j.2c instead of j.B requires Kishuu after the 5c if the j.2c is timed properly. 5c otg 2c never works. Lack of untech frames makes doing the j.2c early enough for the 5c to space correctly impossible from what I could discern.

@Spark: Do we know how many frames the j.B -> j.2a gatling window is?

[mAc Chaos]

Not really worth it, on IB you can't really do anything safe that will let you continue pressure and on normal block doing 2A will trade or lose against most of the other 2As in the game. Only time in pressure it might be useful is when they're falling and you catch them with 5A into 6A.

Since you have the frame data for 6A I'm guessing you have your hands on Extend. How do you think his pressure changes from CS2 to Extend, if any? I mean, 6A isn't as useful, so that means we should change up what we do to accommodate it, even if it's just not to use it. But maybe there's some good changes that would make some other moves more useful.

Maybe 6A can serve as an anti jump tool in pressure now since it's an AA? There's always 2B though.

[Spark]

2A > 2A is still impossible to jump out of, so that works just fine for anti-jump out. 2A > 2B has a big enough gap to jump out of on IB, 2A > 6A has a big enough gap to jump out of even without IB. It would only work if they got hit by 6A on the way up, and even then you can't combo off of it.

[Spark]

@Spark: Do we know how many frames the j.B -> j.2a gatling window is?

I haven't test that yet, but j.B > j.2A and j.B > j.A feel like they have a different cancel window(j.B > j.2A being pretty early vs j.B > j.A being late). Unlike j.A > j.B and j.A > j.A which share the same window.

[Darkside937]

6A is +0 on normal block now.

[mAc Chaos]

2A > 2A is still impossible to jump out of, so that works just fine for anti-jump out. 2A > 2B has a big enough gap to jump out of on IB, 2A > 6A has a big enough gap to jump out of even without IB. It would only work if they got hit by 6A on the way up, and even then you can't combo off of it.

Damn. 2A > 2A shouldn't be anti jump though, 2A isn't air unblockable is it? And it's not a low.

[Spark]

Doesn't matter 2A > 2A has a 1 frame gap on normal block so they if try to jump they'll just get hit out of jump start up.

[Moblin]

The hard part is just hit confirming the 2a. In CS2 it's barely worth following up, but in Extend you can get 3k midscreen off 2a easily.

Can't wait for Csex!

[WallJumpMan]

hey i m having a tough time punishing bursts in extend

has something changed to the system because not only do bursts feel like they come out faster after i bait them my 2a punish whiffs alot through the invisible frames (maybe i m not waiting long enough)

[WallJumpMan]

also Happy New Years all you hakumen bastards :3

[mAc Chaos]

We don't have happy new years, only grim seriousness.

I think you can't use counters to punish bursts either.

[C0R]

Green bursts have more invincibility

All bursts are faster

I believe you can still punish gold bursts with drive.

[mAc Chaos]

So gold bursts are unchanged? I know we can only use 2D in Extend to punish one of the bursts. Maybe both.

[Solex]

i think gold bursts are now vulnerable to other bursts during their start up. and maybe even during the entire thing... it's pretty weird when both players gold burst at the same time they both go flying and just can't do anything lol

[A.X.I.S.]

Gold burst has more recovery I thought.

[WallJumpMan]

lol when is the frame data going to be released for extend?

[C0R]

When the mook comes out,

I believe it has a confirmed release date? Don't know when though.

[dioxideUniversa]

So gold bursts are unchanged? I know we can only use 2D in Extend to punish one of the bursts. Maybe both.

IIRC 2D still eats green bursts, but no other parries do.

Will do some testing with this subject later.

[Spark]

2D will still counter green bursts because it's the slowest to come out once activated.

[mAc Chaos]

What about gold bursts.