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bblader1

Need help understanding basic fighting game fundamentals

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Hi. So I'm a complete idiot when it comes to fighting games, and I'd like some help getting better. Not that the guides here are poorly written, but here they seem to assume I have some idea about what the hell I'm doing: Which I do not.

And I don't mean I suck because I can't do certain combos, I mean I suck because I don't know my fundamentals. I don't know when to block, when I should do a certain attack, what I should use to beat out stuff my opponent throws out, etc... So "practice more dood" isn't going to help, I've lost thousands of matches online at this point and telling me I should practice when I don't know what I'm doing wrong isn't going to help. You need to realize what you did wrong and what you should have done to improve in order to get better, the loss alone doesn't help.

Anyway, to illustrate my level of noob, here. I'm the scrub Tager. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZF0pK6kSGg

So if you could keep tips Tager specific, that would help loads.

(I know, there's other threads touching on the subject of newbie fundamentals here, but that's really as far as it got, touching...)

Oh, and try to explain it to me like I'm a six year old who has no idea how the hell fighters work. Cuz that's pretty much what I am.

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One thing that I noticed in the video is that you tried to use Tager's 2D (down+drive) to go through Makoto's projectile. Use Tager's Sledge (236/Quarter-circle forward A/B) instead, since it actually cuts through projectiles.

I can't offer much help other than saying "practice more man!", but I suggest that you watch some videos of other people's Tagers to get some ideas on how to play him.

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Your problem is that you're just randomly mashing out Tager's throw whenever he gets close. That move only has invul after a certain point and it sure as hell isn't going to work when he's jumping around. If you want to play Tager you really just need to learn how to punish sloppy rushdown and from the looks of it you have no idea what Makoto's moves are. Learn some basic situational stuff, i.e. if they are jumping in at you use 2C or 623C, if they are spamming projectiles use 236B if you are in range

Also, if you hit with A Buster, use 22D > 360A, 5C, or Corridor. If you hit with B Buster, do 236A > 360A or Corridor. Also figure out what combos into 2B and spam the shit out of 2B 2C 623C walk forward 623C walk forward 236B 22D, it's his easiest BnB.

tl:dr just freaking calm down dude, you're mashing like I can't believe.

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2D is not a good way to get in, stop using it as such. Tager either waits for the opponent, or you can super jump>J.C to get in (make sure to barrier guard), or you can sledge through projectiles.

Next, stop mashing 360, and learn to do actual tick setups into 360 like you did when you landed the first 360 in that video. If purple exclamation points are coming up, you're doing it wrong. Stop mashing when you're getting up too. You're at a very large disadvantage when you get up, as your opponent has had time to setup things up, or do a meaty attack. If your opponent is doing it right, you'll get beat out just about every time as Tager really doesn't have a good reversal. Just block, or if you feel your opponent isn't prepared to punish it, roll out.

Every button you press should have reason and thought behind it. I just saw generic PSN/XBL Tager there.

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Stop by the the Beginner Mode and Tager forums later for more in-depth help but as far as very general tips I recommend:

1) Learn what each of your normals looks like by heart. You don't want to be thinking HOW to do the move you want, just WHEN you want to do it.

2) Practice special move motions. Same as above. 720 motion will take more time so don't get sidetracked by mastering that first.

3) Learn how your normals gatling and link (safely or otherwise) into each other. You don't need to know all of them (stick with it long enough and you will anyways) but useful ones for Tager are like 6A 3C, 2B for off-the-ground pickup if the 3C hits.

4) Learn the very basic BnB combos. For Tager the most important is just his simple Atomic Collider combos, magnetized and unmagnetized versions, and anything short that leads into magnetism. 90% of the time the huge combo lists are just (various combo starters -> meat of the combo -> combo ender depending on how long the combo ran/proration). Your execution doesn't have to be perfect yet but you want to get on the right track first before...

5) Get out there and practice what you learned. The best way to solidify any of this is through lots and lots of practice. Also don't get complacent if one trick works many times in a row, always be willing to vary up your gimmicks when you develop them.

5b) Be patient. Tager is like a bear, slow but he mauls your face if you look at him funny.

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Since you're asking about Tager specifically, maybe this should be moved to the Tager part of the forum?

Anyways, you spammed certain moves too much, you lacked familiarity with your own moves and you did no combos. That's the gist of it.

The others have covered the rest, so I can go a bit more indepth on the beginner tips.

Gigantic Tager Driver (360 A & B grabs):

360A isn't invincible from the start and doesn't grab the opponent right away. But it is invincible up till the point the grab becomes active. If you delay the 360A by holding down the A button you won't be invincible during the delay.

360B is similar to 360A, except it has no invulnerability, but it's faster and deals more damage. It also grabs the opponent automatically when you delay it, unlike the 360A.

Use your 360A & B intelligently, spamming them will usually lead into the opponent knocking you out of them and starting a combo. Use them for example when the opponent has done a move with long recovery or if you know that your grabs will come out faster than the opponents attack, alt. if you know the invulnerability from 360A will protect you.

A common and basic trick is to make your opponent to block by say attacking them with 1-2 5A's and then doing a 360A or B, it is also often done after a blocked forward A.

Try to spice it up by sometimes delaying your input (thus resulting in no purple !! coming up). I the opponent starts to try and escape the grabs by jumping, perform an Atomic Collider.

Anti-air options:

Tager has 3 ground-to-air options. The most common ones are his down C and Atomic Collider (both have some invulnerability versus air attacks), his 2A is tricky to use and is very situational, so I'll leave that out for now.

Atomic Collider can't be blocked (since it's a grab) but it's slower than his down C and thus usually requires some forsight or very quick reactions.

His down C has a good vertical hitbox, has to be barrier blocked in the air and can lead into solid combos, so it's usually the move you go to for anti-air.

Keep in mind that if you miss with these attacks the opponent will have time to punish you, so don't spam them, use them when you feel that you know they'll hit.

Sledge:

Again, not a move to be spammed, but can be very handy if used properly.

There are 2 versions of the Sledge, A and B. The one that sees the most use is Sledge B since it moves Tager a lot farther than the A version.

The good thing about Sledge is that it goes through the opponents projectile attacks.

Tager is however vulnerable during the end of the move if you miss your opponent with it, so refrain from doing it full-screen and at situations when the opponent can punish you for using it incorrectly.

Gadget Finger:

Usually a combo ender. Magnetises the opponent and drops them right in front of you (where you want them).

Spark Bolt:

A very handy move, it is a very fast projectile that goes through all other projectiles.

It can be used to bring the opponent closer to you, start a combo from a move that wouldn't result in a strong (or any) combo and can be used to extend combos as well.

The downside is that it requires a special meter to be filled to use.

The meter fills over time but you can also use Voltic Charge (see below) to charge it up faster.

Don't do what many many Tager players do, i.e. throw out the Spark Bolt as soon as you get it.

It is very predictable and sensible opponents will become more careful when your Spark Bolt is charged, meaning it is often blocked and basically wasted.

Save it to punish something the opponents does from a distance, to start a combo from attacks that wouldn't lead into combos or to extend your combos.

Voltic Charge:

While Tagers charges (you can extend the charge by holding down B), when you release you will recieve the energy you charged.

While charging you automatically block high and body attacks, but you are vulnerable to grabs and low attacks.

Magna Tech Wheel:

When Tager spins he will automatically block any move, for that reason it is often used as a punish. It is also used to add extra damage to a combo (often after a Spark Bolt).

It is not safe on block or on whiff, so use it with care.

Genesic Emerald Tager Buster (720):

Very strong command grab that is fully invulnerable up till the point of the grab. Not safe on whiff.

Please refer to the specific thread about this move on the Tager part of the forum.

Beginner Tager combos:

neutral grab (B+C)>Atomic Collider>Sledge B>Gadget Finger

360A>3C

360B>5B>4D

360B>Gadget Finger

5A>5B>3C>Gadget Finger

2B>2C>Atomic Collider>Sledge B>Gadget Finger

...(Atomic Collider>)Spark Bolt>2C or 5C>Atomic Collider

...(Atomic Collider>)Spark Bolt>Magna Tech Wheel>Terra Break

Here's the toughest combo so far, but still tweaked so it's easier than other Fatal Counter Hit combos.

Fatal Counterhit 2C>5C>Atomic Collider>jump forward>jumping C (in midair, it moves you closer to your opponent)>jumping 2C (press it slightly before Tager is about to land on the ground)>5B>5C>6C>5D

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honestly, just practice is one of the best responses you'll get. on wake up though, I've found that a lot of times, staying completely on the defense is a pretty good option, like its tempting to try and mash out, or do a move that has invincibility frames, but sometimes its better to take it slow and just block. but yeah, just practice blocking, and learning your own and your opponents moveset. a big part of fundamentals, imo at least is adaptability. to start or stop doing something mid battle to flip odds in to your favor etc etc.

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Oh, and try to explain it to me like I'm a six year old who has no idea how the hell fighters work. Cuz that's pretty much what I am.

You can't go wrong with that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0cFs5mHQC4&feature=related

If practice sounds bad for you than just play, play and play even more. You'll be losing a lot, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Especially when you're a beginner sometimes you will do the wrong things even when you know what the right thing to do is. Just try to learn something from every match you lose. You might also try looking around the matchup thread for other beginners from your area. When you're asking about character-specific stuff it's no longer about fighting game fundamentals I think. At least in a game like BB where every character specializes in something.

Edit: BTW if you live in Europe and play on PSN add me, I'll gladly introduce you to some of the basics since I need some vs Tager matchup knowledge anyway (and I suck at teching throws).

Edited by Feanor

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Hey bblader. :kitty:

Don't worry about combos yet. You need to get comfortable with your moves, and with your character. You have to learn when it's appropriate to use what move in what situation.

Once you get that down, learning combos is easier since you're just tacking on damage basically. That is important though, since you want to make the most of your openings. You only get so many each match, and if you waste it then you give the opponent another chance to win.

Also, from what it looks like, you need to SLOW DOWN. You panic when people get near you. Instead, take your time and try to figure out what you're doing. It's OK if you get hit, you'll get used to thinking on your feet and doing things with purpose instead of flailing around and hoping something happens. That's the first step.

Next, don't be afraid to block. Blocking is good. It shows good defense and patience, and you need those to win. You can let your opponent wail away at your defense, but you can present a brick wall that makes them have to do desperate things, and overextend themselves. When they do that, it's your turn to strike.

Knowing when and where to strike and with what is all a matter of experience. Be fine with losing; in fighting games getting blown up by people better than you is a key part of the experience. :P

In fact, I seek out people like that because otherwise what's the point if I'm going to win easy?

Since you need experience, finding and playing with other players regularly is important. The more you play with them, the more you can grow together and explore the various options you have in your matches.

Oh, and execution (being able to do your moves and combos consistently and reliably) is important. If you have bad execution, you will not be confident you can pull off something, and be more hesitant to do it. That hesitancy will cause you to screw up. When you get it down though you can do split second things at the right moment without worrying that you might mess it up, which opens up a lot more options.

You have to go to training mode and practice doing your moves. I used to do like, ten of each move in a row, to try and make sure I could nail it. It's like doing reps at the gym. You have to train your hands to remember the timing. If you can only do it every few times out of ten, then you can't really do the move yet.

One last thing, DON'T MASH. In other words, if you want a move to come out, or land a combo, learn the timing of it. Don't just hit XXXXXXXX until it comes out.

Edited by mAc Chaos

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The best piece of advice I have received was to not be so reliant on Tagers command grabs. In that 2nd round you ONLY went for grabs and got beat up for it, so learn his go-to combos. They arent difficult to learn since its Tager, and will help you a lot more than a 360 can.

So next time you jump in with j.b and it HITS (doesnt get blocked), instead of going for a 360b, do a 2c>Atomic Collider>B-sledge. The j.b>360b trick is good but after a bit, they will start to catch on and just jump out of it. If they try to jump out of it when you do the combo instead of the 360, im pretty sure the 2c will hit him and give you a combo opportunity.

Speaking of combos and all that, do you know what people are saying when they say "2D" or "4D?" Im not sure how inexperienced you are, thats why I ask.

Learning how to Instant Block will help a lot, esp with Tager. I got good at IB'ing by just knowing patterns of character combos, not so much of being able to react fast enough. If you play a certain character enough, you'll be able to know whats coming when caught in a block string.

Sillius has everything else covered for Tager.

Edited by Shervin

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When I'm learning a new character, I usually have a process that I go through before I fight against another person:

1. Learn what every single one of your character's moves do, know the properties behind each move and what they can cancel/gatling into (Counter Hit, Frame +/-, other random effects such as vacuum or invulnerability).

2. Learn the BnB combos, what good is it to hit your opponent if you don't know the follow-up for the move that landed?

3. Learn block strings, SAFE block strings. 5D into Sledge B is anything but safe.

4. Learn how to tick throw and what moves to tick throw, this is pretty damn simple. Tick throws are incredibly important if you're playing as Tager.

5. Learn to hit-confirm, there's no point in hitting your opponent if you're going auto-pilot and continuing your block string even after the hit has landed.

6. Learn gimmicks, but don't be predictable when using them. Vary your gimmicks accordingly.

Edited by Moy_X7

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A lot has been said already, and it's all great advice. I'd just like to add a few things. First, you definitely need to block more. Tager has the highest health in the game for a reason: he was designed to be beat up. You can take more hits than any other character in the game, so don't be afraid if you fail to read a high/low mixup. Also, take into account the character you're playing against. A character like Ragna or Makoto needs to get close to deal real damage to you, so in that situation you might consider waiting for them to approach, and punish them for doing it. If Makoto is turtling, spaming projectiles, then sit and block them, or voltic charge. Having more health gives you the right to turtle and waste the clock, a viable strategy against those afraid to approach Tager. This will force them to move in. Zoning characters like Lambda and Rachel will require you to move in, however your sledge will be more effective than against non-zoners like Makoto.

Throw out spark bolt. It's debatably the best projectile in the game; it comes out of nowhere, hits full screen, is extremely difficult to punish, magnetizes even on block, and absorbs other projectiles. Too bad you don't get a lot of them. So watch that little yellow meter at the bottom of the screen. Try not to be to predictable with it.

And bursting out of an opponents larger combos is a great tool, especially for Tager whose large primer count makes up for it.

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When I wanted to learn character's blockstrings, I'd get online and just turtle. I didn't bother trying to attack, I just let them go to town and tried to block it all.

Where their openings on for retaliating sort of comes naturally.

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One thing I can say is, what helped me in any game like this, didn't have to be BB was patience.

Also don't burst just to burst, if you burst make it so that your able to run it back honestly

Also just try to be you and play your way, but to start like if your new with a character, it's smart to copy someone really good! then branch off and be you :)

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