[CSE] Video Discussion Mk.II

[Mumm-Ra]

You should never follow a tier list like its law and Arakune has been stupid in every game, but we gotten used to it.

This is why americans can't follow japanese tier lists, they know their shit more than us, so we bitch about completely dumb stuff (Tager for example).

[LunaKage]

This is why americans can't follow japanese tier lists, they know their shit more than us, so we bitch about completely dumb stuff (Tager for example).

The Japanese also say that a good Tager can beat top tier, so technically we shouldn't be bitching about anything.

Nice CV by the way Jourds, Song was pretty cool.

[C0R]

He and Justice are really dumb thats pretty much all there is too it lol.

If I remember correctly Justice is C-tier, only reason she was banned was because she wasn't in the arcade.

[Jourdal]

Thanks Luna, and really COR @_@,never really seen them on a GG tier list before, always heard they were unbalanced and thats why they banned them.

GG tournies need more gold johnny

[Circuitous]

Thanks Luna, and really COR @_@,never really seen them on a GG tier list before, always heard they were unbalanced and thats why they banned them.

GG tournies need more gold johnny

They're not balanced in the sense that the game's existing balance is assessed without factoring them. They're not particularly broken.

[Eshi]

never really got in-depth with gg, so i'm curious as to why kliff was banned if you don't mind explaining.

I think it had something to do with one of his normals being godlike and having a huge dizzy rate, so he could kill lots of people in one combo. but he had low health too, I think lower than chipp, so matches just come down to who touches the other person first.

[LunaKage]

I think it had something to do with one of his normals being godlike and having a huge dizzy rate, so he could kill lots of people in one combo. but he had low health too, I think lower than chipp, so matches just come down to who touches the other person first.

CS1 Ragna mirrors?

[huey253]

CS1 Ragna mirrors?

its not too uncommon for chipp to eat a 80% + dmg combo in guilty, due to having no defense if cliff's health is even lower than

CS1 ragna doesn't do that much dmg or eat that much from anybody unless its combo video material/astral

[Chazmobile]

its not too uncommon for chipp to eat a 80% + dmg combo in guilty, due to having no defense if cliff's health is even lower than

Last time I checked, bang had above average health, so I guess that makes Kliff ok then?

[huey253]

oh i tried to use one of the smileys without actually selecting it, but i failed

[Nini Heart]

It's vbang, not bang. Stay free huey

[TD]

I think it had something to do with one of his normals being godlike and having a huge dizzy rate, so he could kill lots of people in one combo. but he had low health too, I think lower than chipp, so matches just come down to who touches the other person first.

l see, l see. thanks for answering.

ara video was oddly entertaining.

[Hecatom]

actually he was banned for not being on the arcade version of the game, the same for justice and the ex chars

if they are actually broken or not, it doesnt have anything to do with the decision, at least not at the begining;how unbalanced/balanced are they it has to be seen yet, though some chars have some dumb stuff, i wouldnt deny that

[Scratchmen Apoo]

Hey guys recently me and my brother have been having trouble, me and him were playing BBCS2 and he was Rachel and I was Bang, when I use Bang I use my basic bread and butter combos (B,forward B, Dragon punch B) that combo takes out about two or so guard libras, I thought they toned bang donw but my brother does not think so, however he makes good points, here is the gist of the complaint: No one really talks about Bang despite him being really good, he has great health, great attack, great speed (Running and fighting) his standing B is too fast, long and powerful, he can combo off of almost any hit, he is too good at putting on pressure and getting out of it, he is too versatile (Nails, that bounce and take up the screen, poison nails to chip away health, nails that stick you in place and the exploding one.) he can then throw 3 nails then while you are blocking the three nails, run full screen and put some serious pressure on you. He also states that is is unfair how much invincibility time he gets compared to Rachel, all his distortion drives give him some incredible invincibility, meanwhile Rachel's can be stopped with a normal attack, he also says Bang's drive is the most overpowered in the game because it's a one-button escape move, when Rachel does a distortion, Bang can simply press D and teleport behind her and counter.

Keep in mind he is not belly aching because of a few losses, it's just he had been a rachel main ever since she came out, he really wanted to prove to people that she was not low tier, when we were playing BBCS, however he still wanted a stronger Rachel, so of course he was excited for Rachel in BBCS2, however he says: while they gave her back her damage they took out her combos which really got to him, he says that simply taking out Bang's wall bounce did not do much as other than that he does not see hoe they really toned Bang down. Although I have ONLY used Bang since Calamity Trigger, I would still like to hear from some professionals on this matter. In the end hey just doesn't think that a character who does nothing in the story and is comic relief should be more powerful than the strongest character in the story, he just really likes Rachel and wants to know why she is so seemingly weak. Harsh criticisms is excepted but make sure it is also helpful for him, even though I don't like Rachel I think you guys can explain this better than I can. Is Bang overpowered?

[TD]

bang is pretty ass. especially compared to rachel.

l don't know bang too well, but bang's d attacks have specific attribute guardpoints - you're going to have to use the right one at the right time. his pressure and dnails are still very good, but no nails vs rachel is a lol matchup.

rachel can keep very scary pressure on the cast for rounds at a time. let her get you into the corner. lol, GL getting back out without dying. and pumpkin is bs again which makes that task pretty easy vs many.

[Airk]

Hey guys recently me and my brother have been having trouble, me and him were playing BBCS2 and he was Rachel and I was Bang, when I use Bang I use my basic bread and butter combos (B,forward B, Dragon punch B) that combo takes out about two or so guard libras,

Well, for starters, that string only takes 1 primer. It's also unsafe on instant block, and possibly even on normal block (not really sure if Rachel has a move that's fast enough and will reach.)

I thought they toned bang donw but my brother does not think so,

Well, the changes won't be obvious/meaningful below a certain level of play. If you're just doing a basic 3 hit combo, the fact that his midscreen damage no longer goes beyond that combo in a meaningful way won't impact you much.

No one really talks about Bang despite him being really good, he has great health, great attack, great speed (Running and fighting) his standing B is too fast, long and powerful, he can combo off of almost any hit, he is too good at putting on pressure and getting out of it, he is too versatile (Nails, that bounce and take up the screen, poison nails to chip away health, nails that stick you in place and the exploding one.) he can then throw 3 nails then while you are blocking the three nails, run full screen and put some serious pressure on you. He also states that is is unfair how much invincibility time he gets compared to Rachel, all his distortion drives give him some incredible invincibility, meanwhile Rachel's can be stopped with a normal attack, he also says Bang's drive is the most overpowered in the game because it's a one-button escape move, when Rachel does a distortion, Bang can simply press D and teleport behind her and counter.

In no particular order: Bang's 5B is no longer particularly fast. In fact, it's one of the slowest 5Bs in the game now, on par with Hakumen, Litchi with staff, or Arakune.

Nails are nice and all, but he only gets 12 of them. They're the only non-renewable resource in the game (except bursts, I suppose.).

Bang does have a lot of invulnerability. But Daifunka is crazy punishable on block, Steel Rain uses all his nails, and Ashura is really only good as a reversal.

Bang's Drives are only a "one button escape" if you can predict the attack. It's not something you can do on reaction except to the very slowest moves. Certainly, they are not really much more powerful than say, Rachel's Cat Chair, which has a significantly larger guard point window.

Rachel is not weak (Post 1.03); She does, however, have a significantly higher execution threshhold than Bang does. Bang is very beginner friendly - you can start doing basic easy stuff and have a pretty good level of success - while Rachel requires a pretty significant level of time investment, because her attacks are all nonstandard, her drive requires a certain amount of knowledge to use and apply correctly, and she really doesn't play much like any other fighting game character anywhere.

Maybe you should show him a couple of videos of high end CS2 Rachel players to give him some hope?

Edit: Here. Randomly chosen from the links in the Rachel CS2 video thread. Rachel kicking Bang's ass. First round is a good fight, though the ending is hilarious, 2nd round isn't even a contest.

[Circuitous]

[a bunch of dumb shit]

Why do you say you're playing CS2, present information that only applies to CS1, and then ask a balance question in a thread meant for discussing videos?

[OmniSScythe]

Isa is a God Tail for sure!

[Scratchmen Apoo]

A bunch of disrespectful shit

Because this is stuff that my brother was complaining about, and this is info from BBCS2, perhaps you did not read correctly, and no offense meant, but I am still new here, I have been trying to get on more often and learn how everything works, I have had enough trouble simply editing my profile the way I want to. I brought up things from BBCS and BBCT to make a point at what my brother what getting at, you gave ame an infraction for asking a question you considered dumb, that is a pretty silly reason, it's not like I was completely off topic, I ddin't even know that was against the rules, I was just asking for advice. And when I talk about videos and the gameplay of the said characters in the videos I am going to also ask about balance, like I did pages back with some Mokoto and Ragna videos. That is one of the ways I can really critique the players until I am really familer with the new system, unlike most I am pretty recently getting into Jourdal's videos, so I am not too experienced with the balance yet, which is why I come here to get advice from pros.

But I digress, if it is against the rules I apologize, I do thank those who were patient and mature enough to answer my question, it helped a lot guys I will make sure to make use of the search function next time.

[Scratchmen Apoo]

Wow Airk, thank you so much, I couldn't have said it better myself, I learned some things, I will be sure to show him that video, I'm sure he will be pleased to know this, and very true about Rachel being more difficult.

[TD]

mu's 5c so gooooood now. l freaking love it. imt dragon? l think thats his name. l like the way he plays.

[ZONG_one]

I will learn combos and come back to eat your souls.

[A.X.I.S.]

Zoular needs to learn how to block more and be less obvious.

Doesn't do 2B to get jump happy Haku-men and high jumps way too much.

[Ronove]

Loving Oni-i's way of playing Makoto. While he doesnt' look as solid as other top japanese players, I like the way he freestyles with her combos depending on her position on screen, oki, health, character matchup. It feels like he comes up with most of them right on the spot instead of playing typical flowchart/textbook Makoto.

[NickExtreme1]

This Riyo(Valkenhayn) is actually pretty cool to watch. Teaching me new things at least.