[CS2] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Psykotik]

They had to get rid of the reset loop somehow and I have a feeling that Carl will end up finding some new BS to work with anyways. I don't think that the j.2c nerf will hurt us too badly in the long run.

No glide throw makes me sad though

[JG]

Well.. just doing one j2.C per juimp only make that we loose our loop.

Who can explain me the change to 6C? and i dont understand why they removed glide throw, that wasnt broken or anything.....

[Mascarpone]

They removed all character's glide throws so it's not just us.

as far as i can /guess/ .... Either 6C on aerial opponents bounces them off the ground, or 6C in general lost it's stagger and essentially launches them. If i had to guess tho, it's the former. Cantabile -> 6C vivace combos anyone?

Also if i remember right, can't most characters combo off of blow-back if they're close enough to the corner? Cantabile 6D j.2C alle~can combo silliness anyone?

[Kyle]

So , new Carl.

Get hype.

:3

[The Noble Clap]

I think I'm most hype about 1 inch floor bot. And I don't know how to feel about that.

[soujiro seta]

Woot, his loop is gone. I hope they give him more combo options though as I don't really like his current CS2 combos, but I can definitely live with it.

Relius is looking pretty ca$h though. Lol I wonder how the matchup will be. I like how he has Ignis with him. He reminds me of eddie, and zappa with dog. His setups could be deadly, and so far he looks like he could take all the spotlight away from his son .

[Mascarpone]

Sigh. No Carl vids. I want to see this 6C nonsense.

[JG]

They removed all character's glide throws so it's not just us.

as far as i can /guess/ .... Either 6C on aerial opponents bounces them off the ground, or 6C in general lost it's stagger and essentially launches them. If i had to guess tho, it's the former. Cantabile -> 6C vivace combos anyone?

Also if i remember right, can't most characters combo off of blow-back if they're close enough to the corner? Cantabile 6D j.2C alle~can combo silliness anyone?

I hope that 6C dosnt loose stager properiety and if they are going to add floorbounce to 6C, that should only happen when you catch the opponent in the air. Why would you like Cantabille, 6C? Cantabille have awefull proration, they could improve Cantabille proration, so that way we could deal more dmg.

Yeah.. they removed all glide throw... how many character in this game have this? Lichi? and?...

Woot, his loop is gone. I hope they give him more combo options though as I don't really like his current CS2 combos, but I can definitely live with it.

Relius is looking pretty ca$h though. Lol I wonder how the matchup will be. I like how he has Ignis with him. He reminds me of eddie, and zappa with dog. His setups could be deadly, and so far he looks like he could take all the spotlight away from his son .

Carl combos in Cs2 arent bad, in fact i like it, the problem is Nirvana Gauge.... if they dont give Carl more Nirvana gaugue, Carl will be doomed in Cs2+, because he lost the loop. Well he also need to deal more damage.

Relius seem to be a good char, the only thing that i dont like from him is that he dosnt use negative edge for controling Igniz and he can´t move igniz freely like Carl or Eddie. O well, i hope that he turn to be a strong char... that way i will use it >_<.

[sinder]

lol relius is definitely the eddie of blazblue, sorry arakune

anyway as for the loop, everybody saw it coming a mile away that it would be gone in this game. As for nirvanna gauge increasing, yeah right. I bet its going to remain the same as it was in this game. I do wish that it were increased since there really wasn't any reason to decrease it to 6 commands <_< but hey whatever. He's gotten through all blazblues pretty well so I thing he should be fine.

The one j2c thing was heart wrenching

Another thing that made me sad was getting used to the tao loop and having it be removed, lol

and one other thing that is important is noel's changes..............

[killatrooper]

6C sounds lame as hell. As it is Carl is reduced to his air combo bnb with maybe some added 6D in the corner (woooo....6D instead of brio/8D/volante. So exciting...) All those loop setups useless now, and that's the only thing he had left really. And his glide throw gone too UGHHH Carl will no longer have any style.

Relius is looking like a good main atm, but hopefully they'll give Carl something cool in the next loketests. I'll still sub him regardless. Not like the other chars will be interesting =\

[Mr Oso]

I played CS1 Carl yesterday. . .i almost cried

Yeah relius is looking like more of a main than a sub.(Reminds me of a JoJo's Character)

[Mascarpone]

I'm not saying I -want- Cantabile 6C combos i'm saying they could happen for flashy silliness, like a 6D in a juggle for flashy silliness.

[soujiro seta]

I seriously hate his CS2 combos, it's like the same air bnb over and over again. With brio/8D sprinkled in every now and then. I'm happy the loop is gone, but...I want combos and resets. Plat will still be my main, and most likely Relius as well. As for carl, I don't know. I want to play him again, but arc just keeps taking him down a boring path imo. I don't even care if he's tager tier, just make him fun to play again.

My wishlist:

-I would like for them to reduce his damage, and give nirvana back her CS1 meter. This way he would revert back to his reset oriented playstyle. His damage would come mainly from resets. We'd actually have more than 1 combo, and attempt more than 1 reset before she runs out.

-Nirvana would take double damage when hit, so that she would die as fast as she does in CS2, but she would have her CS1 meter. Carl would be able to use her longer on offense, but she would die quickly if used as a meat shield. This, imo, is how it should be.

-Take away j.C kd. I still do not like it till this day

-I would love for them to give him back his old j.B j.C j.B loop, as it only worked on certain characters, but I can understand if they think his "j.B 3D slight delay j.C" reset is a bit too strong. The problem though is that the j.B j.C j.B loop was a gateway to resets, which made his reset game stronger. Although, unlike his current CS2 loop, there is a much larger escape/reversal window in that reset.

Something tells me CS1 carl was a mistake. If he was, that's the best mistake they've ever made.

[JG]

lol relius is definitely the eddie of blazblue, sorry arakune

anyway as for the loop, everybody saw it coming a mile away that it would be gone in this game. As for nirvanna gauge increasing, yeah right. I bet its going to remain the same as it was in this game. I do wish that it were increased since there really wasn't any reason to decrease it to 6 commands <_< but hey whatever. He's gotten through all blazblues pretty well so I thing he should be fine.

The one j2c thing was heart wrenching

Another thing that made me sad was getting used to the tao loop and having it be removed, lol

and one other thing that is important is noel's changes..............

I never thougth that Arakune was the Eddie of BlazBlue, for me it was Carl because he is 2 on 1, also have amazing lockdown and unblockleables like Eddie. And he doesn’t need to run away all the time just for cursing somebody.

With Eddie, even without the shadow you could still do a decent fight.

Like you, I just hope that Carl just get more Nirvana gauge.

I seriously hate his CS2 combos, it's like the same air bnb over and over again. With brio/8D sprinkled in every now and then. I'm happy the loop is gone, but...I want combos and resets. Plat will still be my main, and most likely Relius as well. As for carl, I don't know. I want to play him again, but arc just keeps taking him down a boring path imo. I don't even care if he's tager tier, just make him fun to play again.

My wishlist:

-I would like for them to reduce his damage, and give nirvana back her CS1 meter. This way he would revert back to his reset oriented playstyle. His damage would come mainly from resets. We'd actually have more than 1 combo, and attempt more than 1 reset before she runs out.

-Nirvana would take double damage when hit, so that she would die as fast as she does in CS2, but she would have her CS1 meter. Carl would be able to use her longer on offense, but she would die quickly if used as a meat shield. This, imo, is how it should be.

-Take away j.C kd. I still do not like it till this day

-I would love for them to give him back his old j.B j.C j.B loop, as it only worked on certain characters, but I can understand if they think his "j.B 3D slight delay j.C" reset is a bit too strong. The problem though is that the j.B j.C j.B loop was a gateway to resets, which made his reset game stronger. Although, unlike his current CS2 loop, there is a much larger escape/reversal window in that reset.

Something tells me CS1 carl was a mistake. If he was, that's the best mistake they've ever made.

I don’t want to sound rude, but why would you like him to reduce is damage? Seriously in Cs2 it isn’t good, just barely hight. In Cs1 he could deal big dmg almost from any hit, he had 4K reset stuff in CS1… also he could deal like 7K with 2 meter and 6K with just one meter.

You have to admit that j.C knock down is great, seriously is an tremendous tool combined with 3]D[ force standing and Fuuco. I don’t want that great tool to be removed. Maybe you should give it another try.

The only thing that I want for Carl in CS2+ is a little bit more dmg and more Nirvana gauge. I don’t care if still recharge at the same speed as CS2, but Carl needs more meter if they are going to remove the loop.

In my case I like more, the options in CS2 than in CS1... the problem is the lack of Nirvana gauge and the loop.

[The Noble Clap]

All I want is the jC-jB link back. I loved that thing.

[killatrooper]

I seriously hate his CS2 combos, it's like the same air bnb over and over again. With brio/8D sprinkled in every now and then. I'm happy the loop is gone, but...I want combos and resets. Plat will still be my main, and most likely Relius as well. As for carl, I don't know. I want to play him again, but arc just keeps taking him down a boring path imo. I don't even care if he's tager tier, just make him fun to play again.

I disagree about CS2 Carl. Just like CS1 Carl had several variations on his options on starting up and ending his j.2C>j.C/B>2D loop, CS2 has several variations on his loop.

You can start with

-Cantabile>6B>j.9B>3D>JC>j.8C>j.2C

-Cantabile>5C>j.8B>3D>JC>j.9C>j.2C.

-Cantabile>2D>5C

-Cantabile>2C>VivaceA

-Cantabile>3D>loop~

-Cantabile>8D>5C>j.2C alle-can>j.9B>JC>j.8C>3D

-any 2D unblockable/crossup

-any 4D crossup

You can end it with

-3D>j.AA>j.B/C

-j.2C>j.B>j.C>2D>Vivace

-j.2C>j.A>anima>8

-any other sandwich mixup

You can do several variations on his air combo you couldn't in CS1 as well. Cantabile>6B>SJC>j.B>j.2C>j.B>JC.>j.B>j.C>2D/8D/brio(corner)/volante/4D. All of which go into another rep.

And don't forget he can essentially still do most of his CS1 combos. They just aren't very viable unless you have full Nirvana meter.

Also I don't understand your wishlist considering you say you want a more reset-oriented Carl but admit that CS2 Carl has stronger resets. Making him more reset oriented while weakening his resets = shit-tier, still boring Carl. This isn't mentioning I think CS2 Carl is already a million times more reset oriented than CS1 Carl. And also much stronger at it.

Even with more meter his old CS1 combos won't do much more damage than his best CS2 combos. They'd have to either keep the same damage/increase it, or make his resets stronger somehow. Also removing j.C knockdown is the worst idea ever lol. Best thing to ever happen to Carl. It makes him less gimmicky and more I-actually-have-an-option-to-keep-people-where-I-want-them-and-don't-have-to-rely-on-catching-them-once-and-keeping-them-there-all-day-without-many-options-of-doing-so.

Not to mention you can actually use more than 8D/Brio/the occasional 2D in air combos, and we get those sexy full screen volante air combos. Who wouldn't want that? Really lol.

And his j.B j.C j.B wasn't really an integral part of CS1 Carl's gameplan, so I don't understand that one. It was basically a watered down version of his CS2 unblockable.

CS1 Carl was amazing, but CS2 Carl is equally as interesting imo

[The Noble Clap]

Truthiness

I just pretend it's CS1 without 3C and jump loops. But damn I miss jump loops. I make CS1.02 rooms just to loop people.

[JG]

I almost totally agree with killatrooper. The only thing that i dont agree is related to dmg. Carl in Cs1 deal way more big dmg than in Cs2, his problem was the learning curve of his combos. On Cs1, Carl need one volante combo, one 4]D[ combo, two 2]D[ loop, and double clap... that way you deal like 6.300K.

Now in Cs2, you can do one volante, one 4]D[, 5C, j.B, j2.C, j.B, j.B, j.C, 8]D[, fermata and only deal 5K... The sad thing is that in Cs2, i feel that Carl cant surpass 5K-6K dmg. In Cs1, you always have the feeling on being able to do more dmg.

[Akira-Shiro]

Like JG said i hav that same feeling, i just cant get past 5k in an actually fight. Its almost impossible, however i believe this new carl in CS2+ will hav a dmg buff but Ada meter will be the same. Iv noticed while im playin that the loop in itself CRUSHES Ada meter. Take it out & ur ada would be fine. Not only that, the proration on cantabile is bad... But it aint @ss, 5b>6b>cantabile=5k in C-O-N Mid screen.

The issue as a carl player was that we can only get good dmg in C-O-N conditions. If we were in any other formation our only legit option was either the volante combo or the loop. With this new 6C we hav a Hazama effect going on. If we want dmg we gotta use cantabile, so the less hits into cantabile the better just like Haz.

We can probably do cantabile>22D>6c>vivace B>2Dhits>5c>jc>4Dhits>66>6B>sjb>j2c>jB>jb>jc>volante hits>J2c>jb>Jb>jc>8Dhits>fermata & thats around 5k. With every patch the proration on our moves always change, so dont count lil carl out just yet.

[Akira-Shiro]

Also JG they had to make carl less dependent on Ada due to her Hp drop so the combos from cs1 im sure they still work. But i wouldn't recommend them due to Ada's lack of Hp.

[Kyle]

Killa: You are correct about those options. The problem is, Nirvana gauge. She doesn't have enough meter to do much of that stuff. Basically, carl can do a little air combo ending in j.c. the corner options are nice tho... if we're in the corner.

[killatrooper]

You don't have enough meter to do one or two Nirvana moves? Unless you mean CS1 combos, which I already said aren't very viable. And his corner options aren't really any better than his midscreen damage-wise. You don't need corner Brio to get 2 reps of his air combo and his midscreen unblockable is just as scarey as his corner one.

Also what I meant about his CS1 combos' damage in CS2 is that even with more Nirvana meter he still won't be able to do the damage he used to unless they change proration, overall damage output, etc.

I don't really want a CS1 clone though. He was fun but I'd rather have something new... something I can get hyped about

[soujiro seta]

A more reset oriented carl would need more nirvana meter. Don't forget carl's reset options open up once he hitconfirms. We don't don't start sandwich with full nirvana meter and in a hitconfirmed state. His CS2 loop is broken, without it you're going to use nirvana a lot more on offense unlike before, aka CS1. During the CS2 loop nirvana just stays on, and all you use her for is 3D. That saves a ton of meter. Not this time. We're going to have to do ground loops, 5A 5B 2B 6B/5C 6D, again and attempt blockable resets, unlike his broken unblockable CS2 reset. His CS2 loop is soo good cause you don't have to waste nirvana's meter by doing ground loops, and you also don't have to attempt resets which are easier to block or get reversaled out of. It resets into itself, barely waste any meter, you can hit confirm into it off anything, it takes so much damage, and is practically unblockable 99% of the time.

This is why CS1 carl wins in the reset oriented game department. He actually has to meter to back up a reset oriented game (pressure-zone-get in-blockstrings-hitconfirm-reset attempt-ground loop)xn, without the need of a broken loop. This is something CS2 carl cannot do. Add that to the fact that he also had the damage to back it up, but I don't care for damage. I'd rather have them reduce his damage in exchange for more meter so that we can do more on offense.

With the loop gone his game just seems so wattered down to: waste meter in trying to get in and pressure, hitconfirm, solo combo, j.C kd, 3D pickup, reset attempt, oops blocked "Oh oh nirvana is out".

The reason why his damage would have to be lowered is because carl doesn't really need the corner for damage, and with more meter his midscreen damage would be too high, making him OP. The corner is just extra for carl, and not a must for big damage.

The reason I personally don't like his CS2 combos is because nirvana just seems like an assist. In CS1 you used carl and nirvana 50/50. Now it's more like carl 75% nirvana 25%. His CS2 combos just seem like the same air solo bnb with nirvana doing one 8D/volante midscreen, or 1 brio/8D in the corner. What happened to 2D loops, and 4D/volante/2D incorporated combos? I would like some more style in his combos. His CS1 combos are still possible, but impractical because of meter. So you have no choice but to do his CS2 combos, which to me are boring. I want nirvana to be used more in combos, just like in CS1, regardless of damage.

His j.B j.C j.B loop was amazing. It led to multiple reset options that I posted in the reset thread. Ofcourse his CS2 loop is better, but the CS2 loop is broken, and I'm not looking for another broken loop. I just want that loop back because of the resets it opened up for him.

If you remove CS2 carl's loop, then I would say CS1 carl has a slight edge in the reset versatility department. The j.B j.C j.B loop is the reason. It didn't work on every character but it's just too good of a loop to pass up. Cs2 carl can still do the same resets as CS1 carl, but he doesn't have to resets that come from the j.B j.C j.B loop.

Now if you're talking about who has a better reset game, obviously that would be CS2 carl cause his loop is broken. If you remove the loop, without a question CS1 carl. CS2 carl doesn't have the meter to have a threatening reset game.

The reason why I don't like j.C kd is because I feel arc thinks j.C kd into 3D is so strong, like how litchi forces neutral, so they keep his offense game weak (nirvana low meter). Not realizing that although j.C kd 3D is good, he still needs meter to do stuff afterwards. I think they thought we would just j.C kd 3D into automatic resets all the time, which explains why her meter is so low. If they feel it's too strong, then I'm all up for them removing j.C kd in return for more meter, assuming this is how they are seeing things. They probably were looking at j.C kd 3D from a theory fighter perspecitive. "Carl will j.C kd 3D into a guaranteed reset. Let's keep her meter low just incase so he can't abuse it". They were right in some regard, lol, but if the loop is gone then all that does is force standing, but carl still doesn't have meter to do anything afterwards.

I guess it depends on what you want really. I want a more offense/reset oriented carl. Where once he gets in he can wreck you with his resets, and he actually has the meter to back up a strong zoning/pressure/can apply multiple strats/reset game. I also want a little bit more style in his game. More meter would mean we can do more damaging (flashier) combos, or go for more resets/strats depending on what we want. At the same time nirvana will still die as fast as she does in CS2 when used as a shield, so that other characters can get in easier. This can easily be done by keeping her CS2 meter the same, but reducing how much each move she does cost. It will seem like she has more meter cause her moves cost less, but she'll still take a ton of damage when hit.

There isn't a wrong or right answer. That's just what I would personally like.

Now I think about it, his CS2 loop might not be gone. You can still spam [j.B j.A]xn 3D j.A mash slight delay j.B. Lol, Arc might be in for another surprise come CS2+.

[Isuyaru]

CS2 Carl's non-loop resets are actually a million times better than CS1. It's just that there's not really a reason to choose to do them over the unblockable. If you weren't doing the unblockable, any combo could still lead into a DP-safe 50/50 mixup, which is something CS1 Carl could not do.

Also, for CS2+: 2A 5B 623C 22D 2C 236A sj.A j.C 3D airdash j.A j.B delay j.A j.2C j.A j.A > j.B+3D

I really hope ArcSys realizes that they need a better solution to get rid of the loop (and same as everyone else, I want more Nirvana health to compensate. Also they should probably just remove 6C full charge or something to make Hakumen happier)

[Akira-Shiro]

Seta a carl that use Ada for only combos wouldn't take more meter. Thats not how Ada works, if Ada is kept on her Hp is constantly being draind. If u use the same attact the amount is constantly increasing every time u do it. Ada has an Hp of 10K 3D cost about 1k-per however if u keep her on the price of the move will increase IE 1k for the first hit then 1.2k for the 2nd then 1.4k for the 3rd. So in all actuality the loop does cost alot more because ur doing the same attact & keeping her on. Combos dont require to keep her on =/ Ada turns off right after volante for our mid screen combo.

An idk who told u, that 4D combos cant be done cause they can. Its just u need to already be in C-O-N so most ppl set up for carls 2D/6B reset into a 4D combo, it does very good dmg & the whole combo only take about 1/4 of Adas meter =/