LK's GAMEPLAY RELATED QUESTIONS ONLY question thread

[Dusk Thanatos]

Actually, on a note more directly related to gameplay, what're some general tips for reading people?

I've gotten few really good moments, but I've guessed wrong lots and lots and lots of times more.

[atdsutm]

how about chicken blocking in CS2, are people still doing it or the new air unblockables doing their job nicely?

[EtZ OvR]

yo we've played and lm sure you know the things im weak at cuz i get murdered. mind telling me what i need to work on?

thanks bro

[skd]

Actually, on a note more directly related to gameplay, what're some general tips for reading people?

I've gotten few really good moments, but I've guessed wrong lots and lots and lots of times more.

Its hard to really explicitly say "HOW2READ", just try to get an idea of how they think and use that and apply it to other situations. If you can think like them, you know how to counter them. If you let them try to get an edge and take it away with some gdlk yomi, chances are youll have them on their toes, then you can blow them up

Conditioning is kinda a way to get into their head. Ex, i play against a tager and i do 5B deadspike twice, and jump towards him. Next time, i do 5B deadspike. he tries to sledge the deadspike and gets GH to the face (stay free shine).

Then, i get away with alot of lulzy shit because shine is free.

[Nakkiel]

I believe the first step in being able to read other people is to make it as hard as possible for others to read you. If you are easily read, you cannot condition an opponent or stay a step ahead of them. So the first thing you should do is rather than guessing what an opponent will do, make sure they're having trouble guessing against you first.

[Henaki]

Actually, on a note more directly related to gameplay, what're some general tips for reading people?

I've gotten few really good moments, but I've guessed wrong lots and lots and lots of times more.

here is how i read people with tager:

do strings with no intention of followthrough, just do safe pressure, try to put in gaps where you block as much as possible early on. vs some characters this isnt as likely to happen. try to notice their overall attitude if you can't reliably get into a situation where you can read them.

one of my favorite things to do is test their reaction/mashing with a single 2D. do it as early as possible (vs someone you've never played before anyway), and see how they deal with it. do they IB the hit before it and then mash jab? do they IB the 2d itself and hit 5a? do they mash reversal without a care in the world? you'll notice how precise their methods for beating string gaps is and how in control they are about defense. after the 2d is blocked, what is their reaction to it? do they jump or do they backdash or do they reversal or do they block? i find vs mediocre players, after a 2d is blocked, they will do ONE thing a lot. they will mix it up after they are told not to sometimes. but keep this single thing in the back of your head, this is going to be your clutch read if round 1 goes sour from experimenting. good players will rarely let me land a 2d in the first place.

in one move, i find vs a majority of players, i can test the type of player im playing very, very well. this is also america so this shit wouldnt really fly in a japanese style tournament, but when i have a lot of rounds to work with, this nets me a lot of good results.

the next step is play normally without giving up too much, do certain moves without a lot of follow up, do a lot of moves in your arsenal, do them twice. do a lot of moves, you'll notice anything but even the best players have a few specific reactions they do as habit to certain moves. exploit the hell out of this. some people will always chicken block after weird normals you don't see a lot, this is because they had success doing this vs a specific player and since they rarely see the move (or were punished), its not in their head to change it up. if you see players react different to a lot of different moves and change it up, you're going to have to straight up make good judgement calls on things that aren't explicit. how do they deal with risk/reward? do they sit on meter or like to get out of trouble ASAP (generally). how good is their reaction time? there's really no good answer vs a good player besides waiting or forcing mistakes and going on their playstyle, even then, that won't get you everything 100% of the time.

one of the few things im good at is reading people, so take thats what you will.

edit: also imo defense in blazblue is like 95% reaction, so i don't really read on defense in this game unless the player has dumb habits.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Henaki

[Redgale]

I think everyone in general has dumb habits, especialy me, I need to ask if Hazama will have decent block strings in CS2.

I know Ragnas are still there if not better except for retardo 6B :/ so im not woried...yet.

[Lord Knight]

LK, I have to say that you just might have made the single best thread on Dustloop right now. The info here is very much appreciated.

Question!

- What would you say are Litchis weaknesses when up vs. Hakumen?

The hardest thing about this matchup for me is trying to put a wedge in. If I venture to push buttons, I'll often find myself in the corner with 4k less health, and a Daisharin over my head. Am I left to having to poke until I get a hit in and/or j.D'ing an overhead?

I think it's neutral (as usual).

Litchi's neutral is good in this match, I hate repeating myself but if someone is lacking in neutral, Hakumen gets a huge advantage. I personally think they are even in neutral, but Litchi does good against his pressure and when he's blocking. If you have to block against Litchi, then she's putting you in a pretty shitty situation where she can deal about the same amount of damage as you do if you try to counter improperly.

Is there anything you think BB should borrow from Melty, or vice versa?

Not really. They are two different games that I find fun for different reasons.

1) tao vs litchi

2) how should tao approach litch

3) how should tao deal with litchi's pressure

1. Run around and do stuff and confirm random hits. You don't have to deal with Litchi, she has to deal with you.

2. Refrain from playing too wildly, Litchi is trying to force a trade with you (which will always be in her favor). Play a passive-aggressive neutral game. Tao's the best at it.

3. Just be patient. I dunno why Tao players are so mashy when she has the lowest health. If you have meter to CA, use it on Daisharin, Kokushi, 5C, or 2C. It's a free escape + jC starter.

My question is have you noticed everyone has better meter gain in CS2 and would you agree RC will be a norm?

Insecure Lichi players, so cute.

Ive seen enough of jin, new mach up might be platinum and noel, but the rest is sheir raping of a character if your Jin.

Ragna's...er fine i guess. Wont go into detail, id just be a moment

There's a temporary meter gain penalty after you use meter (for exapmle, after a super).

Actually, on a note more directly related to gameplay, what're some general tips for reading people?

I've gotten few really good moments, but I've guessed wrong lots and lots and lots of times more.

The thing about "reads" is that they can't be "general", lol.

This is actually a sort of hard question to answer - as you can see, everyone has their own methods. . . so I'll just share mine.

Basically, there are a finite amount of situations that can happen in the game. Knowing the game well means knowing a lot of these situations. Recognizing these situations as they happen leads to good "reads". So, if you think of it as being situation based, then the actual amount of viable options that you have that could work in that situation can be huge - but you can reduce them greatly by judging the risk/reward.

how about chicken blocking in CS2, are people still doing it or the new air unblockables doing their job nicely?

Looks like they are getting the job done to me. I can't wait to have air unblockable 5B and stuff.

yo we've played and lm sure you know the things im weak at cuz i get murdered. mind telling me what i need to work on?

thanks bro

You're a pretty good player, aren't you? At this point, you should start trying to think about the game, outside of the game. With a character like Ragna, this is important. I can't really say much because I haven't seen any of our matches (that one netplay tourney thing, they didn't upload our match). At least, from memory, you should try to avoid getting randomly hit by stuff in neutral, it leads to too much damage for Litchi.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Lord Knight

[Dusk Thanatos]

Basically, there are a finite amount of situations that can happen in the game. Knowing the game well means knowing a lot of these situations. Recognizing these situations as they happen leads to good "reads". So, if you think of it as being situation based, then the actual amount of viable options that you have that could work in that situation can be huge - but you can reduce them greatly by judging the risk/reward.

So, something like this?

I'm Ragna (since chip damage and Ragna seem to go nicely together), and I've got my opponent cornered and in pressure. Their heat is less than 50 -- not close to getting there -- they've got no bursts, and they're within range of dying from chip damage. Although they can keep blocking, it's a losing situation; they've got to keep guessing, and barrier will only hold off the chip damage from specials/D attacks for so long. Given this, I can reasonably expect my opponent to try to either mash or DP out soon, to keep from dealing with a losing situation.

Well, I suppose they could also try jumpout, but that seems much less rewarding than mash or DP -- a reset to neutral, as opposed to possibly regaining advantage. As for whether to expect mash or DP, it'd depend on the character.

Am I completely off, or is that reasonable -- assuming they're not reading my incoming attempt to bait DP etc.

[Lord Knight]

That's pretty reasonable. From there you can just apply based on the player. The more you play a person, the more you can see what options they tend to use more, their level of play, their grasp on the matchup, etc.

More or less, this is how I handle most things.

[Dacidbro]

Is litchi's DP punishable by Tager, if IB'd? Similarly, can Hakumen pick up anything past 3C 3C? (Perhaps 214B 623AA?)

Just if you already know it off the top of your head, thanks.

[mAc Chaos]

After you block Litchi's DP you can do pretty much anything. Hop forward 5C > combo, or Gurren > combo.

[Nakkiel]

If Litchi is magnetized Tager can 5C 6A etc., I believe. Also Tager Buster if he starts point blank.

Hakumen can do 3C 2B 214A if he only has 1 star and your theorized 3C 214B(1) 623AA is actually optimal.

[skd]

Tager has

5C CH 6C AC

5C CH 6C Spark

5C 5D 236A~236A RC 6C AC

5C 6A 2C under mag,

WHATEVER MAN

its pretty simple, though the optimal punish would probably be 360B/720 w/ mag or close enough

EDIT: actually bro, i just checked it out, litchi is -23 on block after tsubame. So your options become all standing moves except for 5D, 6B, 6C, and 2D, and BSledge. On IB, you can punish with anything except for BSledge and 6C. So youre essentially limited by space. I checked out the P1 on 5C, and it isnt as good as the P1 on 6A (90 vs 100) so i would go with 6A for a punish on normal block. Though i dont know tager's max combo damage, at least you know whatll net you a CH, so just go find optimal damage combos for the different ranges youll be dealing with (Barrier'd may push you back farther, etc)

Edited December 31, 2010 by not_lunaris

[DoomieJ]

Tager has

5C CH 6C AC

5C CH 6C Spark

5C 5D 236A~236A RC 6C AC

5C 6A 2C under mag,

WHATEVER MAN

its pretty simple, though the optimal punish would probably be 360B/720 w/ mag or close enough

EDIT: actually bro, i just checked it out, litchi is -23 on block after tsubame. So your options become all standing moves except for 5D, 6B, 6C, and 2D, and BSledge. On IB, you can punish with anything except for BSledge and 6C. So youre essentially limited by space. I checked out the P1 on 5C, and it isnt as good as the P1 on 6A (90 vs 100) so i would go with 6A for a punish on normal block. Though i dont know tager's max combo damage, at least you know whatll net you a CH, so just go find optimal damage combos for the different ranges youll be dealing with (Barrier'd may push you back farther, etc)

ide try something like 5C CH bolt myself.

[Dacidbro]

I think 5C loses to staff hitting you on the way down. But yes, if it doesn't, that's a clear choice.

[Isorropia]

5C hits her before the staff connects - the dp loses it's second hitbox. If she's magnetised 360B is your best shot, but use 5C if out of range etc.

[Xx_Hoshi_xX]

Okay! i finally have a stick (so happy) and I have a quick question. I'm having trouble carrying over momentum in my combos. Instead of an extended 5C like I want, I get 6C. While trying to carry over momentum, should I let go of stick completely? I think that's what the problem is, but I just want to double check. I use jin so here is an example if you don't get what I'm saying.

Ex: (when opponent is crouching) 5C, 6C, dash cancel 66 5C... (Input i want)

(when opponent is crouching) 5C, 6C, dash cancel 66 6C... (the error i make)

I'll experiment with just letting go of 6 on the stick to see if that helps.

[Redgale]

great now i know theres a limit on meter for a reason :D.

I wanted to ask does the fact Hazama, the guy i even thought would be ass and apparently jourdal too, having a 10k combo still worry you in the least?

Or a better question who do you think has become more of a threat overall?

[atdsutm]

who is the most strongest character in CS2?

so i could finally start playing this shit.

[Nakkiel]

who is the most strongest character in CS2?

so i could finally start playing this shit.

Barrier defense.

[St1ckBuG]

Okay! i finally have a stick (so happy) and I have a quick question. I'm having trouble carrying over momentum in my combos. Instead of an extended 5C like I want, I get 6C. While trying to carry over momentum, should I let go of stick completely? I think that's what the problem is, but I just want to double check. I use jin so here is an example if you don't get what I'm saying.

Ex: (when opponent is crouching) 5C, 6C, dash cancel 66 5C... (Input i want)

(when opponent is crouching) 5C, 6C, dash cancel 66 6C... (the error i make)

I'll experiment with just letting go of 6 on the stick to see if that helps.

Try inputting the 5C as 4C.

[rei-Scarred]

Asking LK questions about CS2 is kind of pointless until he's actually played it i. Granted he's more qualified than most of us to make predictions, but a prediction is just that.

[Osuna]

Tager has

5C CH 6C AC

5C CH 6C Spark

5C 5D 236A~236A RC 6C AC

5C 6A 2C under mag,

WHATEVER MAN

its pretty simple, though the optimal punish would probably be 360B/720 w/ mag or close enough

EDIT: actually bro, i just checked it out, litchi is -23 on block after tsubame. So your options become all standing moves except for 5D, 6B, 6C, and 2D, and BSledge. On IB, you can punish with anything except for BSledge and 6C. So youre essentially limited by space. I checked out the P1 on 5C, and it isnt as good as the P1 on 6A (90 vs 100) so i would go with 6A for a punish on normal block. Though i dont know tager's max combo damage, at least you know whatll net you a CH, so just go find optimal damage combos for the different ranges youll be dealing with (Barrier'd may push you back farther, etc)

5C 6C spark has proration down to 21ish percent before the first collider, which is a no no. 5C 6C collider (I think on normal block you have to delay or hold the collider a tad for her to get to the right height to get grabbed) is fine. You get mag at the end of the combo anyway, so even 5C spark is kinda a waste. I'm reasonably certain you can't do double collider into b/egadget with such high proration starters.

5C 5D 236A~236A RC 6C AC brings the proration to somewhere around 16 percent before the first collider, the proration is sightly less horrible if you use use something like 5C instead of 6C, but over all the damage is sad and the extra meter gain is more than negated by the RC and it is just bad. You also have to be really close to litchi, and probably have Ibed/walked a lil to hit litchi's narrow hitbox with the 5D, might as well 360B punish in that scenario.

6A 2C on instant block and not too far away would be the best punish you listed of course, at least is sounds plausible. I'm not speaking from experience on that one.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Osuna

[Lord Knight]

Okay! i finally have a stick (so happy) and I have a quick question. I'm having trouble carrying over momentum in my combos. Instead of an extended 5C like I want, I get 6C. While trying to carry over momentum, should I let go of stick completely? I think that's what the problem is, but I just want to double check. I use jin so here is an example if you don't get what I'm saying.

Ex: (when opponent is crouching) 5C, 6C, dash cancel 66 5C... (Input i want)

(when opponent is crouching) 5C, 6C, dash cancel 66 6C... (the error i make)

I'll experiment with just letting go of 6 on the stick to see if that helps.

Well yes, obviously go back to neutral, lol.

You can go with St1ckbug's advice and just go to 4, but I don't normally do that. You use more force moving a stick around than wiggling your thumb on a pad, so you gotta get used to it.

great now i know theres a limit on meter for a reason :D.

I wanted to ask does the fact Hazama, the guy i even thought would be ass and apparently jourdal too, having a 10k combo still worry you in the least?

Or a better question who do you think has become more of a threat overall?

Not really. It's good to see Hazama is still a sorta cool character. He had a 10k, 100 meter, double gold burst combo in CS1 as well, so who cares.

who is the most strongest character in CS2?

so i could finally start playing this shit.

Arakune, Makoto, Jin, Noel and Rachel are the characters that stand out.